Combinator - why does it consume CPU?
- tobypearce
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Using a blank template and playing a single note over 4 bars I with Thor, here's how many instances I can have before I get a red bar in the CPU meter:
Thor 350
Thor in Combinator 266.
Whilst that's an awful lot of instances, the difference is enough to put me off using combinators by default. If there was negligible CPU usage for combinators I'd love to use them more.
Any idea why combinators consume this level of CPU?
Thor 350
Thor in Combinator 266.
Whilst that's an awful lot of instances, the difference is enough to put me off using combinators by default. If there was negligible CPU usage for combinators I'd love to use them more.
Any idea why combinators consume this level of CPU?
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One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
- Marco Raaphorst
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hypertheading on/off?tobypearce wrote: ↑17 Aug 2017Using a blank template and playing a single note over 4 bars I with Thor, here's how many instances I can have before I get a red bar in the CPU meter:
Thor 350
Thor in Combinator 266.
Whilst that's an awful lot of instances, the difference is enough to put me off using combinators by default. If there was negligible CPU usage for combinators I'd love to use them more.
Any idea why combinators consume this level of CPU?
can you share the file?
- tobypearce
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I had hyper threading on. When off, I get the message that computer is too slow. But even if I reduce the number of instances to a point where it does play with hyper threading off, the same principle applies: it seems like you can get way more instances of just thor than you can with thor in combinator.
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One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
- tobypearce
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For some reason I'm getting an http error trying to upload the zip file.
It's easy enough to replicate:
make a totally blank reason doc and create a thor playing a note on each beat over 4 bars.
duplicate track over and over until you get the computer too slow message.
then do the same again, this time with that same thor in a combinator.
If you're like me you'll find that you can't have nearly as many instances before you get the message.
It's easy enough to replicate:
make a totally blank reason doc and create a thor playing a note on each beat over 4 bars.
duplicate track over and over until you get the computer too slow message.
then do the same again, this time with that same thor in a combinator.
If you're like me you'll find that you can't have nearly as many instances before you get the message.
https://onetrackperweek.com
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
- tobypearce
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This was happening before 9.5 Loque - I first noticed it back in Reason 8
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One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
As long as MIDI and/or CV and/or audio run through the combinator it will consume CPU.
Are you putting one Thor in one Combinator, and duplicating that Combi 266 times? Or are you saying 266 Thors in one Combinator vs 350 Thors not in a Combi? If it's the former, it makes some sense, but if it's the latter then that's a LOT of overhead for one Combinator!tobypearce wrote:Using a blank template and playing a single note over 4 bars I with Thor, here's how many instances I can have before I get a red bar in the CPU meter:
Thor 350
Thor in Combinator 266.
Whilst that's an awful lot of instances, the difference is enough to put me off using combinators by default. If there was negligible CPU usage for combinators I'd love to use them more.
Any idea why combinators consume this level of CPU?
Still, that's a 24% hit for using a Combinator, which is more than I would have expected…
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Selig Audio, LLC
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I combin everything I make to keep my sequencer tidy, Iv never noticed any CPU problems. But my question is, what are you doing with so many instances of Thor haha, I can get a decent sounding mix with 3 bass synths a lead synth a few samplers and a few more random synths I couldn't imagine what to do with so many instances :p also how does one check CPU usages on a Mac?
Mayor of plucktown
Maybe additive synthesisscratchnsnifff wrote: ↑20 Aug 2017I combin everything I make to keep my sequencer tidy, Iv never noticed any CPU problems. But my question is, what are you doing with so many instances of Thor haha, I can get a decent sounding mix with 3 bass synths a lead synth a few samplers and a few more random synths I couldn't imagine what to do with so many instances :p also how does one check CPU usages on a Mac?
Fortunately PH already added Thor's wavetables to Parsec
Time to go uncombine everything
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Yep, not sure how I didn't think of that when I first read this post haha, I like doing small time additive synthesis using sine waves to make organsAhornberg wrote: ↑20 Aug 2017Maybe additive synthesisscratchnsnifff wrote: ↑20 Aug 2017I combin everything I make to keep my sequencer tidy, Iv never noticed any CPU problems. But my question is, what are you doing with so many instances of Thor haha, I can get a decent sounding mix with 3 bass synths a lead synth a few samplers and a few more random synths I couldn't imagine what to do with so many instances :p also how does one check CPU usages on a Mac?
Fortunately PH already added Thor's wavetables to Parsec
And as far as PH adding Thor wavetables to parsec, I'm dying for them to add malstroms wavetables to Thor! Haha
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- tobypearce
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It's the former Selig. Each Thor is in its own combinator. I put one Thor in a combinator, then duplicated that combinator over and over.selig wrote: ↑20 Aug 2017
Are you putting one Thor in one Combinator, and duplicating that Combi 266 times? Or are you saying 266 Thors in one Combinator vs 350 Thors not in a Combi? If it's the former, it makes some sense, but if it's the latter then that's a LOT of overhead for one Combinator!
Still, that's a 24% hit for using a Combinator, which is more than I would have expected…
It does seem a lot of overhead doesn't it. It's just enough to get me to think twice about using combinators routinely, which is a shame.
https://onetrackperweek.com
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
I used to combine everything. I would in reason 7, 8 get the computer to slow to play the song message quite often. Upgraded computer CPU, More memory and added solid state drives which did not improve the issue one bit. I used to think that I had to many instruments/effects in my songs.
After reason 9.5 came out someone somewhere in the forums recommended in a post to reduce combinators to improve performance. I went through these same songs and removed most of the combinators and sure enough no more computer to slow error messages. I stopped combining everything and now rarely get the computer to slow message.
When I do get the computer to slow message now it is due to issues with VST instruments and Reason being new to VST. These issues will probably be worked out future updates.
After reason 9.5 came out someone somewhere in the forums recommended in a post to reduce combinators to improve performance. I went through these same songs and removed most of the combinators and sure enough no more computer to slow error messages. I stopped combining everything and now rarely get the computer to slow message.
When I do get the computer to slow message now it is due to issues with VST instruments and Reason being new to VST. These issues will probably be worked out future updates.
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In my opinion it is a better workflow to put all effects in the insert of the mixerchannel. This saves CPU and you can open the fx very fast from the ssl mixer.
I'm lazy. I only put something in a combinator when I need the combinator's functionality.
It's not much CPU when you really think about it.
Every device (including combinators) has to copy audio from its inputs to its outputs (2xinput to Combinator internal input port, then 2x Combinator internal output port to output port). Each device will also have an I/O port overhead, and if you're only comparing with a single waveform with just 2 filters then that's pretty reasonable.
If you compare CPU load with a Spider it just might use about the same.
Every device (including combinators) has to copy audio from its inputs to its outputs (2xinput to Combinator internal input port, then 2x Combinator internal output port to output port). Each device will also have an I/O port overhead, and if you're only comparing with a single waveform with just 2 filters then that's pretty reasonable.
If you compare CPU load with a Spider it just might use about the same.
- syncanonymous
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I seldom use combinators because of the cpu strain. I am still using 2009 Vaio i3. Lately...wellll, this week, I started using combinators to more easily save patches as I evolve versions of songs. It actually works really well and avoids having to open up previous song versions to verify what I had routed before and retains settings. Then I just uncombine to lighten the load in the newer versions.
I do use spiders all the time, and do not notice a performance hit. I never fill the spiders though.
I do use spiders all the time, and do not notice a performance hit. I never fill the spiders though.
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Yes, that is my point, because you've got a mixer channel for every instrument already. In most cases there is no need to put an additional combinator below the mixer channel only to combine the instrument with some effects.
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