Old Propellerhead Record program - does it need authorising?

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CaptainBlack
Posts: 124
Joined: 24 Mar 2015

21 Jul 2017

I still have the old Record program sitting in my account, along with Reason. I might need something to just play back a backing track from a laptop. Could I employ it to do this without an ignition key? I've already authorised Reason for a separate laptop.

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platzangst
Posts: 728
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

22 Jul 2017

As I recall, Record was the first PH product to require the "Ignition Key", and it took another version or two before you could authorize Reason on the computer itself. I'm not even sure you could log in using an an online authorization for Record. So I could be mistaken but I'm guessing that you need that key.

CaptainBlack
Posts: 124
Joined: 24 Mar 2015

22 Jul 2017

It would be nice if Props could allow an authorisation amnesty on that program if it's still in my account but effectively obsolete.

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Arrant
Competition Winner
Posts: 521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

22 Jul 2017

Record did come with an authorizer stick, I just threw the box out last week so I am 100% sure of this.

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stratatonic
Posts: 1507
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: CANADA

22 Jul 2017

You can online authorize Record.

You would also need Reason 4 or Reason 5 installed (if using Record 1.0 or Record 1.5 ) to have access to all of Reason's instruments

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

22 Jul 2017

CaptainBlack wrote:
22 Jul 2017
It would be nice if Props could allow an authorisation amnesty on that program if it's still in my account but effectively obsolete.
Yeah sure, give away the secret to their copy protection which also protects the current programs. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.
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Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

22 Jul 2017

CaptainBlack wrote:
21 Jul 2017
I still have the old Record program sitting in my account, along with Reason. I might need something to just play back a backing track from a laptop. Could I employ it to do this without an ignition key? I've already authorised Reason for a separate laptop.
I've still got Reason 5, Record 1.5 boxed bundle. Record had an ignition key and Reason had a serial number to authorize it. If the Reason license you've got authorized now was updated from that version at some point then you'd still only be able to run one instance at the same time regardless of the versions you use. Otherwise you'd have to purchase another license.

You could however, in theory, have Record authorized on a laptop using an ignition key with the Record license written to it, and your current Reason version using computer or online authorization on another machine, provided you don't have both versions running at the same time.

The jury is out as to whether it would be worth bothering to do though.

CaptainBlack
Posts: 124
Joined: 24 Mar 2015

22 Jul 2017

Just trying to make use of something that appears to be obsolete, but still 'mine'. There are plenty of free DAWs that can play a backing track
Yeah sure, give away the secret to their copy protection which also protects the current programs. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.
No need for sarcasm. I'm sure they could allow it to be authorised without giving away the secrets of International Rescue.

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Gorgon
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24 Jul 2017

CaptainBlack wrote:
22 Jul 2017
Just trying to make use of something that appears to be obsolete, but still 'mine'. There are plenty of free DAWs that can play a backing track
Yeah sure, give away the secret to their copy protection which also protects the current programs. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.
No need for sarcasm. I'm sure they could allow it to be authorised without giving away the secrets of International Rescue.
Well that shows that you don't know much about software.
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SteveDiverse
Posts: 108
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24 Jul 2017

CaptainBlack wrote:
22 Jul 2017
I'm sure they could allow it to be authorised without giving away the secrets of International Rescue.
Some aspect of the authorization mechanism is coded into the application. It's not likely that they are going to go back and change the code to an obsolete program so that it no longer checks for a legit license before it will run.
Last edited by SteveDiverse on 24 Jul 2017, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: :reload: :record: :ignition: :refill: :re: | :rt: FTW

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jonheal
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Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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24 Jul 2017

Mr. Captain Black,

Sarcasm aside (because yes, it is annoying — and obnoxious), it sounds like you have an Ignition Key, so perhaps you could deauthorize Reason on your Ignition Key, and then reauthorize it on your main computer. And then plug your Ignition Key into the laptop and authorize Record there.

EDIT: I see Ostermilk proposed the same thing, which I glossed over. Should work, I think.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

mguh22
Posts: 126
Joined: 10 Nov 2015

25 Jul 2017

Gorgon wrote:
24 Jul 2017
CaptainBlack wrote:
22 Jul 2017
Just trying to make use of something that appears to be obsolete, but still 'mine'. There are plenty of free DAWs that can play a backing track

No need for sarcasm. I'm sure they could allow it to be authorised without giving away the secrets of International Rescue.
Well that shows that you don't know much about software.
Sorry Gorgon, but it is clearly you who doesn't know. The part of the Record app that handles the operations that require authorisation, these parts are encrypted inside the binary. If they released a version of the Record app in full non-encrypted form or instead perhaps still encrypted but containing an internal mechanism that always qualified registration regardless of the presence of an ignition stick, it would not create an attack vector that would create a risk to the Wibu security system that the Props use. Reaktor used to use a Wibu key and later Native Instruments removed it. It didn't break the Wibu security model anywhere.

I suggest you read more about the Wibu security products here: http://www.wibu.com and stop acting like you're knowledgeable about things when you clearly are not.

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Gorgon
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25 Jul 2017

mguh22 wrote:
25 Jul 2017
Gorgon wrote:
24 Jul 2017


Well that shows that you don't know much about software.
Sorry Gorgon, but it is clearly you who doesn't know.
Uhuh.
The part of the Record app that handles the operations that require authorisation, these parts are encrypted inside the binary. If they released a version of the Record app in full non-encrypted form
Which will never happen. Maybe I took a bit of a shortcut, but the whole "well maybe they could make it so" implies that it might be quite easy to take out the protection (but I don't think so, otherwise we'd have seen a cracked version of Record by now, and there isn't one). Even if it is, they will never do it, and well, it probably isn't. No, I do realize that cracking means reverse engineering without having access to the source code, but even if you have the source code it could be quite the operation, not to mention that it might break things elsewhere in the program.
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mguh22
Posts: 126
Joined: 10 Nov 2015

26 Jul 2017

Gorgon wrote:
25 Jul 2017
mguh22 wrote:
25 Jul 2017


Sorry Gorgon, but it is clearly you who doesn't know.
Uhuh.
The part of the Record app that handles the operations that require authorisation, these parts are encrypted inside the binary. If they released a version of the Record app in full non-encrypted form
Which will never happen. Maybe I took a bit of a shortcut, but the whole "well maybe they could make it so" implies that it might be quite easy to take out the protection (but I don't think so, otherwise we'd have seen a cracked version of Record by now, and there isn't one). Even if it is, they will never do it, and well, it probably isn't. No, I do realize that cracking means reverse engineering without having access to the source code, but even if you have the source code it could be quite the operation, not to mention that it might break things elsewhere in the program.
Gorgon, what are you talking about? We haven't seen a cracked version of Record because the only binary available to the public is the encrypted one; and the crackers haven't been able to decrypt it!! Props have the un-encrypted source code in a pre-compiled state and only they have that, hence a registration-free version of the app never making it out into the public.

Creating a build of Record without the Wibu parts would be a trivial task for Propellerhead to undertake, as long as they still have the source code. However, perhaps they haven't kept that far back and only have the code for Reason 8-9 now, I don't know...

However, the only thing you are right about is that this is all a moot point because it will never happen, simply because the Props don't revisit their old apps and never have done. The proof of this is in ReBirth; they couldn't even be bothered to remove the CD copy protection from ReBirth when they made it freeware, so the chances of Record being made available free of dongle protection to legacy customers is nil.

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

26 Jul 2017

mguh22 wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Gorgon, what are you talking about? We haven't seen a cracked version of Record because the only binary available to the public is the encrypted one; and the crackers haven't been able to decrypt it!!
Guess what. If you could compare (part of) the decrypted version to the encrypted version, you might be able to figure out the encryption, given enough time.
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mguh22
Posts: 126
Joined: 10 Nov 2015

29 Jul 2017

Gorgon wrote:
26 Jul 2017
mguh22 wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Gorgon, what are you talking about? We haven't seen a cracked version of Record because the only binary available to the public is the encrypted one; and the crackers haven't been able to decrypt it!!
Guess what. If you could compare (part of) the decrypted version to the encrypted version, you might be able to figure out the encryption, given enough time.
You don't understand how Wibu works. Even if a cracker can work out that hash, it would be completely useless to decrypt Reason 6, Reason 7, Reason 8 or Reason 9.

Guess what? Reason 5 contains some of the same code as Record and Reason 5's binary is completely unencrypted. For example, the Open file function which is encrypted in Record isn't encrypted in Reason 5. Still didn't help any hackers make any progress in cracking Wibu though did it? And this is guys who have cracked Syncrosoft, Ilok and all manner of other copy protections.

You simply don't know what you're talking about Gorgon. Sorry.

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

29 Jul 2017

mguh22 wrote:
29 Jul 2017

Guess what. If you could compare (part of) the decrypted version to the encrypted version, you might be able to figure out the encryption, given enough time.
You don't understand how Wibu works. Even if a cracker can work out that hash, it would be completely useless to decrypt Reason 6, Reason 7, Reason 8 or Reason 9.

Guess what? Reason 5 contains some of the same code as Record and Reason 5's binary is completely unencrypted. For example, the Open file function which is encrypted in Record isn't encrypted in Reason 5. Still didn't help any hackers make any progress in cracking Wibu though did it? And this is guys who have cracked Syncrosoft, Ilok and all manner of other copy protections.

You simply don't know what you're talking about Gorgon. Sorry.
I know enough to know that Propellerhead wouldn't want Record being out there without security.

And by now we also know that you seem to be very intrigued with cracking Reason.

I will concede one point though. I don't know much about encryption, that is true. :)
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."

mguh22
Posts: 126
Joined: 10 Nov 2015

31 Jul 2017

Gorgon wrote:
29 Jul 2017

You don't understand how Wibu works. Even if a cracker can work out that hash, it would be completely useless to decrypt Reason 6, Reason 7, Reason 8 or Reason 9.

Guess what? Reason 5 contains some of the same code as Record and Reason 5's binary is completely unencrypted. For example, the Open file function which is encrypted in Record isn't encrypted in Reason 5. Still didn't help any hackers make any progress in cracking Wibu though did it? And this is guys who have cracked Syncrosoft, Ilok and all manner of other copy protections.

You simply don't know what you're talking about Gorgon. Sorry.
I know enough to know that Propellerhead wouldn't want Record being out there without security.

And by now we also know that you seem to be very intrigued with cracking Reason.

I will concede one point though. I don't know much about encryption, that is true. :)
I work in IT, I understand information security and encryption. Glad you've finally conceded that you don't know much about what you're purporting to be an expert in.

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

01 Aug 2017

mguh22 wrote:
31 Jul 2017
I work in IT, I understand information security and encryption. Glad you've finally conceded that you don't know much about what you're purporting to be an expert in.
I'm sorry, but I never said that I was an expert in encryption. But I do know how software works, and I work in IT as well. That doesn't mean that I know everything, but I can imagine that the wish of the OP regarding releasing Record without authorization could raise security concerns.

Now if you could drop the NO U hostility, that would be nice.
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mguh22
Posts: 126
Joined: 10 Nov 2015

04 Aug 2017

Gorgon wrote:
22 Jul 2017
CaptainBlack wrote:
22 Jul 2017
It would be nice if Props could allow an authorisation amnesty on that program if it's still in my account but effectively obsolete.
Yeah sure, give away the secret to their copy protection which also protects the current programs. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.
Given the above was your first message on this thread, I think it's a bit rich you lecturing anybody on hostility. It is your hostility that informed my decision to reply in the interests of fairness.

Props officially releasing an unencrypted or pre-authorised version of Record ≠ giving away the secret to Wibu's copy protection.

If such a version was released to existing customers, but got leaked onto the internet, the worst that could happen would be a free Record for unscrupulous people. However, given Record isn't even for sale anymore and has been superseded by Reason 6, Reason 7, Reason 8 and Reason 9; it would hardly be the end of the world.

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