De-Reverb a sample/Effect in Reason

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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

I'm aware of the technique inverting the side or L/R channel and getting the cleaner mono signal to take reverb or effects off a sample but any time I try to do it in reason I am unable to accomplish it. I can do it in ProTools easily. But I stopped using ProTools.

What you do is take any commercial track duplicate the tracks so they are on 2 channels convert one to mono and leave the other as is. When you Invert the the stereo or mono track what you should end up with is all the mono from the stereo track being cancelled out. You then record this onto a new track and then invert the effects and side signal you just recorded. When this is inverted to cancel out the first tracks effects your left with the dry track with no aux effects or side so a dry mix of the track. You can get really interesting results and hear what effects are on a track and how they contrast to in the mix.

[import any track copy the import (CTRL/CMD move) on the insert of one insert a VST or Rack extension that has a mono button e.g. Selig gain or just remove the R cable, press Inv on the mixer channel of one of the tracks]

I have been trying out a couple of VST's that take the reverb out of a sample Zynaptiq UNVEIL ($ :o $) RX6 can do it have not tried it yet ($ :o $) and Plug-in Alliance SPL De-Verb. Out of the 3 SPL de-verb is a no brainer and has similar results as Unveil. It's actually a little better than Unveil as it is very low on DSP, has 0 latency, Cheaper and seems to keep the top end in plus it keeps more transients.
I'm guessing they use the same technique as above. If I could do the technique in reason there would be no need to spend money though.

So what's the deal with reason why can you not accomplish removing the side and aux effects in it? It kind of does it but with drastically different results from ProTools.
Last edited by AttenuationHz on 24 Jun 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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joeyluck
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24 Jun 2017

RX6 is fantastic! I got the Standard version on sale with the 'competitive crossgrade' offer though Sweetwater for $199! I was eligible for having recently purchased any DAW or plugin (I had bought Reason 9 a few months ago). So I'd keep an eye out for a deal like that again in the future. iZotope also offers it for $100 off or so a few times a year during sales.

I've had great results from the RX De-Reverb. And of course, the software has so many more features and amazing capabilities. So I would definitely lean towards that over the Zynaptiq plugin as you would get so much more.

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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jun 2017
RX6 is fantastic! I got the Standard version on sale with the 'competitive crossgrade' offer though Sweetwater for $199! I was eligible for having recently purchased any DAW or plugin (I had bought Reason 9 a few months ago). So I'd keep an eye out for a deal like that again in the future. iZotope also offers it for $100 off or so a few times a year during sales.

I've had great results from the RX De-Reverb. And of course, the software has so many more features and amazing capabilities. So I would definitely lean towards that over the Zynaptiq plugin as you would get so much more.
I will try it out after the other two SPL is really good too only started testing very good results from it and its so simple one knob. Do you know what version the demo is Joey. Tried ozone 7 and it was the standard demo. You got reason on sweetwater to qualify for the offer. Still available?
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submonsterz
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24 Jun 2017

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jun 2017
RX6 is fantastic! I got the Standard version on sale with the 'competitive crossgrade' offer though Sweetwater for $199! I was eligible for having recently purchased any DAW or plugin (I had bought Reason 9 a few months ago). So I'd keep an eye out for a deal like that again in the future. iZotope also offers it for $100 off or so a few times a year during sales.

I've had great results from the RX De-Reverb. And of course, the software has so many more features and amazing capabilities. So I would definitely lean towards that over the Zynaptiq plugin as you would get so much more.
Sort of don't answer his questions he is asking in any shape form or fashion .
But op I find it also in reason just don't seem to do the same job as elsewhere or near the results of plugs . I'll not speculate on the reason why but I definitely seem to hear a different kettle of fish too.

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joeyluck
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24 Jun 2017

I'm not sure about the demo. I specifically demo'd and purchased the standard version of RX. It has what I need. It includes De-Reverb. So not sure about demo'ing the Advanced version.

The offer through Sweetwater doesn't look to be available any longer.

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joeyluck
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24 Jun 2017

submonsterz wrote:
24 Jun 2017
joeyluck wrote:
24 Jun 2017
RX6 is fantastic! I got the Standard version on sale with the 'competitive crossgrade' offer though Sweetwater for $199! I was eligible for having recently purchased any DAW or plugin (I had bought Reason 9 a few months ago). So I'd keep an eye out for a deal like that again in the future. iZotope also offers it for $100 off or so a few times a year during sales.

I've had great results from the RX De-Reverb. And of course, the software has so many more features and amazing capabilities. So I would definitely lean towards that over the Zynaptiq plugin as you would get so much more.
Sort of don't answer his questions he is asking in any shape form or fashion .
But op I find it also in reason just don't seem to do the same job as elsewhere or near the results of plugs . I'll not speculate on the reason why but I definitely seem to hear a different kettle of fish too.
Well it's on topic of de-reverb, he mentions RX and that he hasn't tried it. Since I just bought it and have been using that feature, I chimed in with my experience with it. Seemed pretty relevant. I don't know the answer to the question nor do I have experience with other DAWs or Reason using that technique. So this is what I have to offer to the conversation. Sorry.

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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

Well its an open discussion lads I'm testing the plug-ins and mentioning about the invert effect and not getting the results in Reason as I did in PT. Any info on the plug-ins mentioned is very welcome also.

The thought occurred to me to add reverb (rv7k spring) on a 6:2 aux channel then de-Verb the main output going into a mix channel. What your left with is an amazing effect of the dry hit and the tail of the reverb sounds amazing! Happy accident. There is definitely a duck gate coded into the De-Verb also to get the results.
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wendylou
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24 Jun 2017

I have RX5 with De-Reverb and it works very well at removing reverb. I had asked Bob Katz about any available de-reverb tech many years ago, but it wasn't here yet. iZotope has worked their magic once again. The results are superb.
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Loque
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24 Jun 2017

Not sure if i get everything here, but there are RE out there to separate mid and side and i think that is what you want to achieve in first.

Do do it with Reason only, you can just create Parallel Tracks, seide the stereo wide to mono (little fader beside panning) and than invert the phase in the top section of the SSL mixer. Now you should only hear the side.

Also you can do this with Thor with some tricks.

Hope that helps...
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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

wendylou wrote:
24 Jun 2017
I have RX5 with De-Reverb and it works very well at removing reverb. I had asked Bob Katz about any available de-reverb tech many years ago, but it wan't here yet. iZotope has worked their magic once again. The results are superb.
Wish the De-reverb was available as a stand alone Download/Purchase getting RX just for access for that alone is a bit silly. Will have to test the other parts of RX separately to justify paying through the nose for it.

What can RX do for a sample library. I have tons of samples that have good and bad bits above them too much reverb is probably the biggest issue with most of them though.

I know it mainly its used for live recording and cleaning up bleeds or artefacts in those recordings. I don't do live sound though all in the box and samples. The SPL DeVerb already has worked wonders on crashes hats and snares for me and I only used it for a few hours.
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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

Loque wrote:
24 Jun 2017
Not sure if i get everything here, but there are RE out there to separate mid and side and i think that is what you want to achieve in first.

Do do it with Reason only, you can just create Parallel Tracks, seide the stereo wide to mono (little fader beside panning) and than invert the phase in the top section of the SSL mixer. Now you should only hear the side.

Also you can do this with Thor with some tricks.

Hope that helps...
That's the bother though when you inject the side back into original and invert that to get rid of the side it does not have the same results that it does in PT or other software.
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selig
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24 Jun 2017

Here's my guess as to what's going on…
The difference between Pro Tools and Reason is the pan laws. Because of this, if you use panning to create the mono track you'll end up with different results in each app. If you instead route the left and right channels into their own mono mix/aux channel in both apps you'll get the same results in both apps.


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AttenuationHz
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24 Jun 2017

selig wrote:
24 Jun 2017
Here's my guess as to what's going on…
The difference between Pro Tools and Reason is the pan laws. Because of this, if you use panning to create the mono track you'll end up with different results in each app. If you instead route the left and right channels into their own mono mix/aux channel in both apps you'll get the same results in both apps.


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Makes sense actually because when you take width out of the recorded side effectively making it mono there is nothing there. Does your Gain RE centre panned make it mono Selig or is it using the same pan law that's on the mixer?
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selig
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25 Jun 2017

AttenuationHz wrote:
selig wrote:
24 Jun 2017
Here's my guess as to what's going on…
The difference between Pro Tools and Reason is the pan laws. Because of this, if you use panning to create the mono track you'll end up with different results in each app. If you instead route the left and right channels into their own mono mix/aux channel in both apps you'll get the same results in both apps.


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Makes sense actually because when you take width out of the recorded side effectively making it mono there is nothing there. Does your Gain RE centre panned make it mono Selig or is it using the same pan law that's on the mixer?
There are multiple pan laws to choose from with Gain, none of which match the mixer since the mixer uses "plus 3 dB center" and Gain gives you the more traditional "minus x dB center" options.

When converting stereo audio to mono you want to subtract 6 dB (6.0206… dB to be more precise), since that is how much gain is added when you combine two identical signals.


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