Possible bug? Reason doesn't use all cores, but load metter is red.

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EnochLight
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20 Jun 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Jun 2017
Ok I see, so using 4 different instruments, piling Slate VBC on each of them, I can do 35 instances of VBC rack. Still nowhere close to Logic though.
If you get a chance, try this: create 60-70 tracks, each one with a native Reason instrument on them (say for instance, Subtractor or Thor). Then start adding 1 instance of Slate VBC onto each track, and see how many you can get then.
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davidvilla
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20 Jun 2017

Keep in mind I'm on a 2012 mac mini. Did it a little different than your instructions : )

Started with a Thor + VBC, then duplicated both 'till it choked. I got to 45.

A Subtractor + VBC combo: 48 instances.

Thor and the newest plugin I have, Brauer Motion: 42 instances.

Thor + the oldest plugin I have, Waves Q-10: 156 instances!!!

EDIT: Just for f*ck's sake, I did a Thor + M-Class EQ test: 262 instances.

Edit #2: I did the same thing in Logic but with an ES2+ VBC rack: hit the max of 256 instances and the cpu meter looks like this:


Screen Shot 2017-06-20 at 8.14.46 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-06-20 at 8.14.46 PM.png (9.38 KiB) Viewed 2846 times

My specs:

Sample rate: 44K
Buffer size: 512

Mac mini
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.3 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 16 GB

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sequence
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21 Jun 2017

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jun 2017
sequence wrote:
20 Jun 2017
Just to shime in that I did experience a really bad performance when using Omnisphere compared to Reaper,
I opened the same patches and dropped the same midi on both, and reason cannot even start playing without showing the computer too slow message....
Well that's good to know, and a stark difference from what James Benard claimed in his recent Spectrasonics demo video about Reason performance. Sadly, I was trying to buy a used copy of Omnisphere 2 from a user over at KVR, but he/she dropped off the face of the planet after they told me they had put in a request for license transfer over 3 weeks ago. Glad I didn't pick it up, if performance truly is an issue.
sequence wrote:
20 Jun 2017
nope.... performance really suck !!

I do hope they are aware of it, and trying to fix with the priority it deserves.
Yes, they are very aware and of course working to improve it, as mentioned by Mattias over at KVR here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p6811115
This is good to know that we might see an update with a fix soon,

thanks for sharing it.

About Omnisphere performance just keep in mind I am using a mac mini server from 2012 (but it is quad core with 16gigs of ram), maybe on of those newer I7 it will work way better.

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davidvilla
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21 Jun 2017

I'm on a 2012 mac mini and I don't have any problems with Omnisphere. It's my most used VST. What patch gave you the 'computer too slow ' message?

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sequence
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21 Jun 2017

davidvilla wrote:
21 Jun 2017
I'm on a 2012 mac mini and I don't have any problems with Omnisphere. It's my most used VST. What patch gave you the 'computer too slow ' message?

Try "Waiting for the Horizon" @ 256 buffer size

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davidvilla
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21 Jun 2017

"Waiting for the Horizon" - 3 DSP bars @ 256, playing a progression of 4 note chords. Something's up with your setup perhaps.

Vyckeil
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22 Jun 2017

This has been talked about in another thread. Reason doesn't use hyper-threading, thus uses only half of the logical cores (the cores you see in Windows). I'm sure they're optimizing the VST wrapper itself to increase performance that'll soon to be released, but there is still the hyper-threading issue here.

This is not a problem that's easily resolved, far from it. So don't expect it to be solved anytime soon, unless Props has been working on it for a while now and are soon to release that feature. I suspect that it's much harder to refactor a ton of legacy code to properly use hyper-threading. Props is proud of the fact that the core of Reason has remained basically unchanged. It's a testament of their forward thinking to see the same features after more than 15 years being still relevant without any modifications, but I think that a major part of it isn't easily redone without opening Pandora's box of shitty bugs and problems.

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EnochLight
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22 Jun 2017

Vyckeil wrote:
22 Jun 2017
This has been talked about in another thread. Reason doesn't use hyper-threading
This has been discussed a million times, for sure, and to be clear - Reason does use Hyperthreading for practically everything except audio DSP. Examples of Hyperthreading in Reason are high quality stretch and resample, disc i/o, and GUI.

To see the effects of Hyperthreading in Reason, try taking a project with lots of audio recordings and drop the tempo drastically (for instance, from 120 BPM to 20 BPM), and watch all cores (both actual and virtual) ramp up.
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calmbird
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23 Jun 2017

Try increasing Reason process priority from normal to high, I was able to add few extra instruments/effects after that act.

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jonheal
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23 Jun 2017

calmbird wrote:
23 Jun 2017
Try increasing Reason process priority from normal to high, I was able to add few extra instruments/effects after that act.
I think I maybe wouldn't mess with application priorities in the Task Manager. You'd possibly be delaying other important processes and causing trouble for yourself. But ... whatever. It's your computer, go for it. :)
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calmbird
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23 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
23 Jun 2017
calmbird wrote:
23 Jun 2017
Try increasing Reason process priority from normal to high, I was able to add few extra instruments/effects after that act.
I think I maybe wouldn't mess with application priorities in the Task Manager. You'd possibly be delaying other important processes and causing trouble for yourself. But ... whatever. It's your computer, go for it. :)
It won't harm your PC at all, and after restarting Reason, process priority is back to default (normal).
For me increasing priority to high added some power to reason, like 20%.

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SA Studio
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23 Jun 2017

davidvilla wrote:
20 Jun 2017
Ok I see, so using 4 different instruments, piling Slate VBC on each of them, I can do 35 instances of VBC rack. Still nowhere close to Logic though.
It's nowhere close. I just mixed a song for a record label and made a video showing over 100 audio tracks in Reaper with 55 active, heavyweight VST's plus another 20 unactive VST's in a Reaper project.

Reason, and I say this as a Reason power user, can not do anything near 100+ tracks + over 55 VST's. What some people say is neccesary for computer specs to run Reason compared to any other DAW, is really crazy and I've been saying this for years. Literally. I also said for years VST was coming :puf_bigsmile:

And it did. Reason definitely needs a massive performance update. "Higher tracks counts and better DSP processing on the same hardware" has been a feature in the last few Pro Tools versions. Other DAWs like Studio One are more efficient than the version before it. Is Reason? No. 9.2 saw a DSP increase for barely anything added to the core architecture.

Glad to see they're working on a performance update. Reason really, really needs it. If they can do it, Reason 10 will be very successful.

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jonheal
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23 Jun 2017

Just a thought, and of course it is total speculation, but I am thinking about Reason's incredibly complex and flexible routing capabilities. No other DAW remotely compares in this respect, yes? Anyway, to facilitate this routing, there must also be an incredible amount going on under the hood in terms of event listeners and the myriad of things to which they might be bound. Perhaps the price to pay for this incredible flexibility is a performance penalty. If that is the case, personally, I gladly accept the penalty.
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EnochLight
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23 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
23 Jun 2017
Just a thought, and of course it is total speculation, but I am thinking about Reason's incredibly complex and flexible routing capabilities. No other DAW remotely compares in this respect, yes?
No, actually. There are other DAWs that have just as flexible routing and modulation possibilities (as well as the equivalent of CV and Combinators). Bitwig is one that comes to mind.

But I still prefer Reason's workflow and GUI/UX.
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25 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
23 Jun 2017
Just a thought, and of course it is total speculation, but I am thinking about Reason's incredibly complex and flexible routing capabilities. No other DAW remotely compares in this respect, yes? Anyway, to facilitate this routing, there must also be an incredible amount going on under the hood in terms of event listeners and the myriad of things to which they might be bound. Perhaps the price to pay for this incredible flexibility is a performance penalty. If that is the case, personally, I gladly accept the penalty.
BOOM!

You possibly just nailed it. The software either needs to be brought up to close to 50% what Reaper and other DAWs can do on the same hardware, OR, Props just need to admit or disclose that by the sheer routing and Graphical Requirements and issues due to the design actually PROHIBIT getting the software on par with other DAWS.

I know that's not the case, however. I know from using Reason to it's extremes since version 4, many small and insignificant additions have slowed the software down over the years and it's simply time for an overhaul. But I hear you, for sure.

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Oquasec
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25 Jun 2017

Routing daws that exist are:
Ableton [max for live edition]
FL Studio [flowstone or the patcher]
Bitwig [I heard it's similar to ableton]
Usine hollyhock [really modular]
Reason [The analogue Gui is hopefully not the cause of that but I picked it for being analogue workflow]
Minihost modular
Kyma.

Hm...AH I FOUND WHY https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/10 ... audio-1075
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jonheal
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25 Jun 2017

Oquasec wrote:
25 Jun 2017
Routing daws that exist are:
Ableton [max for live edition]
FL Studio [flowstone or the patcher]
Bitwig [I heard it's similar to ableton]
Usine hollyhock [really modular]
Reason [The analogue Gui is hopefully not the cause of that but I picked it for being analogue workflow]
Minihost modular
Kyma.
I understand that Ableton and Bitwig route audio in various ways through their FX. But what I'm talking about is not only that, but also the extensive CV routing that affects all manner of parameters in a myriad of ways.
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Oquasec
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25 Jun 2017

What I didn't know was that reason uses alotta cpu when the instruments aren't minimized. so that analogue gui is the reason :o
"One of the more obvious suggestions that tends to be overlooked is to minimize instruments while you’re not editing them. You may not think it would make a big difference, but Reason puts a lot of CPU power into lighting up all those LEDs and cool patterns. It might not make a difference if you have 2 instruments, but what if you have 20? If you click the small arrow in the corner of the instrument, you can minimize and hide them, vastly improving Reason’s performance."
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jonheal
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25 Jun 2017

Oquasec wrote:
25 Jun 2017
What I didn't know was that reason uses alotta cpu when the instruments aren't minimized. so that analogue gui is the reason :o
"One of the more obvious suggestions that tends to be overlooked is to minimize instruments while you’re not editing them. You may not think it would make a big difference, but Reason puts a lot of CPU power into lighting up all those LEDs and cool patterns. It might not make a difference if you have 2 instruments, but what if you have 20? If you click the small arrow in the corner of the instrument, you can minimize and hide them, vastly improving Reason’s performance."
That's an interesting idea. It's certainly possible that the UI would impact performance but I would like to see if tested out before I totally believed it.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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EnochLight
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25 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
25 Jun 2017
Oquasec wrote:
25 Jun 2017
What I didn't know was that reason uses alotta cpu when the instruments aren't minimized. so that analogue gui is the reason :o
"One of the more obvious suggestions that tends to be overlooked is to minimize instruments while you’re not editing them. You may not think it would make a big difference, but Reason puts a lot of CPU power into lighting up all those LEDs and cool patterns. It might not make a difference if you have 2 instruments, but what if you have 20? If you click the small arrow in the corner of the instrument, you can minimize and hide them, vastly improving Reason’s performance."
That's an interesting idea. It's certainly possible that the UI would impact performance but I would like to see if tested out before I totally believed it.
Vastly? I've seen no evidence to support that statement, at least not on my machine. Maybe it depends on your specs? Beats me.
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Oquasec
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25 Jun 2017

It could be noticeable if you set your machine to balanced mode, then set the maximum speed to 1/4 of it's setclock :]
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EnochLight
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25 Jun 2017

Why would one intentionally leave their laptop on "balanced" mode or downclock their CPU if you're doing audio production?
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Oquasec
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26 Jun 2017

Haven't had a laptop in 3 years so I don't know :P
But I'm pretty positive laptops are comparable to prebuilt machines these days.
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EnochLight
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26 Jun 2017

Oquasec wrote:
26 Jun 2017
Haven't had a laptop in 3 years so I don't know :P
But I'm pretty positive laptops are comparable to prebuilt machines these days.
But doesn't your advice only pertain to laptops set in power savings mode?
Oquasec wrote:
25 Jun 2017
It could be noticeable if you set your machine to balanced mode, then set the maximum speed to 1/4 of it's setclock :]
Or are you just speculating?
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jonheal
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26 Jun 2017

Reason may be a pokier than alternatives when loaded up with 900 VSTs, but it sure is fun to use! If you really need to load up 900 VSTs, use an alternative. If you like having fun, use Reason. That's my take on it. :)
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