Another Solution (Or Help Streamlining) My Live Sample Playback Setup?

[chrischrischris]

Hi,

I will make this as simple as possible with the use of pictures.

I have A Live Setup I am working on for A Venue. The Idea is that I can do A Set of "Electronic" Cover Songs "Live" with varying amounts of "Band Members" ranging from Me with A PC And Controller And A Singer to Me with A PC And A Controller And Two Singers, Live Bass, Live Percussion, Live Sax And Live Keys.

The Setup that I am using works although it's a little bit complex. So, My question is are there any other Reason Based Routing Ideas Or Low DSP VST's that can accomplish what I can already do but more streamlined and efficient. Or, is there any way that I could streamline these processes. ( I know so far that I could get rid of all but 1 Volt SV1 and run multiple Spiders from each output).



Here is My Setup;

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I have A Kong that feeds CV Out 1 - 12 into A Volt SV1 then into The Pongsoft A/B Switch's 1 - 12 CV's.

I press Kong Pad 1 and it initiates A Countdown and then Triggers The Pongsoft A/B Switch to "Open" The Corresponding Channel's Audio.

Each of The 12 "Pongsoft" Inputs are connected to 12 different "Redrums" that are loaded with (Usually) Identical Samples but at different stages of "A Song".
For example Redrum 1 "Just Clap" Redrum 2 "Clap, Kick And Synth Pad" etc This allows Me to have "Multiple Versions" of the same "Song" available for different Setups ie Mute All Bass Lines or All Percussion etc

These Redrums are constantly Playing but the output is only allowed to come through when the correct "Ponmgsoft" channel is "Open".

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Kong Pads are Set Up to Play specific "On The Fly Samples for each "Song" on pads 13 - 16,
There is also A Line Mixer on each "Song" for "On The Fly" Samples to pass through at any time and A Mute Button for The Main Audio Flow.

[chrischrischris]

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[chrischrischris]

It is then wrapped up nicely in A Combinator and then in My Master Section I have A Morfin Crossfader with some Spider Audio Splitters Linked to Channel A / B.

This allows Me to have as many different "Songs" inside different combinators ready for My Set. These are then connected "Song 1" to Morphin Channel A's Spider Input 1 and then "Song 2" to Morphin Channel B's Spider Input 1 then "Song 3" to Morphin Channel A's Spider Input 2 and then "Song 4" Morphin Channel B's Spider Channel 2 and so on.

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There are also some effects in "The Chain" and everything is controlled from A Numark Orbit Wireless Midi Controller.

I might have missed out some important information in places but any questions will be answered. It's been about a year since I first built this but I know there are probably some things that seem odd or are a waste of time but I'm pretty sure that most things are required.

Thanks in advance

Chris

[artotaku]

Let me ask some more questions to better understand your setup.
Does one Redrum stand for one song?
Do all songs use the same drum samples but with different rhythms? If so, why don´t you just use one Redrum but with a different pattern per song?
Do you use different patterns per Redrum per song or just pattern 1?
Maybe you could give an example for let´s say a snare drum sample. How should the sample be triggered in different songs?

Since there are lots of samples duplicated in your setup, this may be a starting point for optimization but it depends what should be possible in the setup.

[chrischrischris]

Let me ask some more questions to better understand your setup.
Does one Redrum stand for one song?
Do all songs use the same drum samples but with different rhythms? If so, why don´t you just use one Redrum but with a different pattern per song?
Do you use different patterns per Redrum per song or just pattern 1?
Maybe you could give an example for let´s say a snare drum sample. How should the sample be triggered in different songs?

Since there are lots of samples duplicated in your setup, this may be a starting point for optimization but it depends what should be possible in the setup.

Hi,

One Redrum Is Part 1 Of 12 Parts Of A "Song.

Different Patterns Per Redrum. Mainly for The Length Of Loop. It's not all "One Shot Samples" Programmed into A Sequenced Beat some Parts are 16 Bar Bass Loops ect.

The Reason For Not using Pattern Select is that I actually Control Everything from The Kong. 1 - 12 is related to The Pongasoft "Audio Open / Close" Action and 13 - 16 are controlling "On The Fly Samples".

I also need it to have a sort of what I see on the screen is what I see on The Numark Orbit ie 4 X 4 Grid. I can't get A 4X4 Grid controller that lets Me know what is happening on the screen so The Pongasoft shows Me that information.


I Think I will try A Video, hold that Thought!

Thanks in advance

Chris

[chrischrischris]

View My Video

View My Video

Sorry for The Low Quality!

Chris

[artotaku]

Haven´t watched the video yet, since it requires Flash player. Will do this when I´m at home.

Regarding mapping grid controllers - the most flexibility in the Ableton Live way I get when using a Redrum per per sample type
Let me explain.
A Redrum that has all kick samples for all songs
A Redrum that has all bass samples for all songs
etc...

One Redrum corresponds to a track like in Ableton Live
A pattern of a Redrum corresponds to a scene like in Ableton.
So pattern 1 of all Redrums belongs to scene 1
A sample in drum slot 5 in pattern 2 corresponds to a clip on track 5 and in scene 2

You can have up to 32 scenes (patterns) and up to 10 tracks (since it has 10 drum/instrument slots)

That way you can play all tracks/scenes of all songs dynamically and at random.

One problem is that the column/track buttons of a MIDI controller´s grid need to be mapped to one remote item that controls the scene switching. This is normally not supported by the remote codecs that are provided in Reason. So I had to write my own codec, e. g. for Launchpad and it works very well.
Another is that the samples of a song are spread over multiple Redrums so a song cannot be self contained in combinator for example.

In Reason the trick to make the scene and clip switching possible is to use CV routing. The CV signal controls the scene number (that is: the Redrum pattern) (0 - 31)
The redrums need to be put in a combinator and a CV need to be connected to combinator inputs. In the combinator programmer the CV is mapped to the pattern select of the Redrum. The CV signals for scene switching are triggered by another device, e. g. from Hamu Mod panel or the free CV8X4 CV Generator.

Hope I didn´t confuse you too much and it may be something that could work for you and it gives you another perspective.

I used this setup and it works quite well. It also has the advantage that you can apply FX chains per sample type because e. g. all bass samples are in one Redrum which can be audio routed to a insert FX chain. This reduces the amount of routing of audio channels and FX units.

[pongasoft]

I press Kong Pad 1 and it initiates A Countdown and then Triggers The Pongsoft A/B Switch to "Open" The Corresponding Channel's Audio.

What do you mean by this? What is the countdown for and for how long?

Yan

[artotaku]

I think I finally grasped your setup.
To recap (in my words):
- one combinator represents one song
- each combinator has 12 redrums, representing 12 parts of a song
- all redrums have the same samples in the same slots but may vary in pattern length and rhythm (set steps)
- song parts can be switched on/off by VOLT-SL-1 and A/B switch RE, only one part plays at a time
- kong is used to trigger on-the-fly samples and to start a count-down to trigger the A/B switch
- songs audio sum routing is organized in an A/B DJ deck style, so odd songs are "A deck" and even songs are "B deck" and you can crossfade between A/B

Brainstorming some optimization ideas:
- redrums per song could eventually be reduced to one, if the pattern length is not controlled by the redrum itself but from outside via a CV device e. g. VOLT-SL via combinator. Then, you don´t need different patterns just to control the pattern length. The 12 parts of the song would be just 12 different patterns
- pattern switching could be controlled by a combinator rotary which is mapped to a remote item that corresponds to a group of buttons on the midi controller (this is currently not supported by any of the remote codecs around but could be implemented in a custom codec for your controller). The combinator rotary is mapped to the pattern select property of the redrum in combinator programmer. You would get rid of the A/B switch maybe. The combinator rotary would also control switching the VOLT-SL when a pattern is changed.

[chrischrischris]

I press Kong Pad 1 and it initiates A Countdown and then Triggers The Pongsoft A/B Switch to "Open" The Corresponding Channel's Audio.

What do you mean by this? What is the countdown for and for how long?

Yan

You can use The Volt SV1 as A Count down for anything from 1/16th up to and above full Bars so that I can press My Orbits Pad and there is a delay before it "Kicks In" the next Sequence.

This is done by A CV Out of Volt into The Pongasoft.

Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance

Chris

[chrischrischris]

I think I finally grasped your setup.
To recap (in my words):
- one combinator represents one song
- each combinator has 12 redrums, representing 12 parts of a song
- all redrums have the same samples in the same slots but may vary in pattern length and rhythm (set steps)
- song parts can be switched on/off by VOLT-SL-1 and A/B switch RE, only one part plays at a time
- kong is used to trigger on-the-fly samples and to start a count-down to trigger the A/B switch
- songs audio sum routing is organized in an A/B DJ deck style, so odd songs are "A deck" and even songs are "B deck" and you can crossfade between A/B

Brainstorming some optimization ideas:
- redrums per song could eventually be reduced to one, if the pattern length is not controlled by the redrum itself but from outside via a CV device e. g. VOLT-SL via combinator. Then, you don´t need different patterns just to control the pattern length. The 12 parts of the song would be just 12 different patterns
- pattern switching could be controlled by a combinator rotary which is mapped to a remote item that corresponds to a group of buttons on the midi controller (this is currently not supported by any of the remote codecs around but could be implemented in a custom codec for your controller). The combinator rotary is mapped to the pattern select property of the redrum in combinator programmer. You would get rid of the A/B switch maybe. The combinator rotary would also control switching the VOLT-SL when a pattern is changed.

Hi,

Well You have definitely made sense of what I am doing and managed to put it much better than I did!

I am going to have a deeper look into Your suggestions but I need to point out first of all that The Pongasoft RE is perfect for Me to see on screen "The Progression" of the 12 Sequences always leaving the top 4 Pads on The Orbit Free to be used for "The On The Fly" Samples.
I need to be able to use The Orbit almost without Thinking because I will be Playing other Instruments at the same time. I have two Orbits so someone else may need to press the next sequence Pad at some point and so that needs to be seen on a screen for all to see.

Sometimes if I remember correctly each "Song" had maybe 16 Samples but only 12 at once ie Verse Bass Chorus Bass Outro Bass etc

I will do some checking and get back to You.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

Chris

[artotaku]

I think I finally grasped your setup.
To recap (in my words):
- one combinator represents one song
- each combinator has 12 redrums, representing 12 parts of a song
- all redrums have the same samples in the same slots but may vary in pattern length and rhythm (set steps)
- song parts can be switched on/off by VOLT-SL-1 and A/B switch RE, only one part plays at a time
- kong is used to trigger on-the-fly samples and to start a count-down to trigger the A/B switch
- songs audio sum routing is organized in an A/B DJ deck style, so odd songs are "A deck" and even songs are "B deck" and you can crossfade between A/B

Brainstorming some optimization ideas:
- redrums per song could eventually be reduced to one, if the pattern length is not controlled by the redrum itself but from outside via a CV device e. g. VOLT-SL via combinator. Then, you don´t need different patterns just to control the pattern length. The 12 parts of the song would be just 12 different patterns
- pattern switching could be controlled by a combinator rotary which is mapped to a remote item that corresponds to a group of buttons on the midi controller (this is currently not supported by any of the remote codecs around but could be implemented in a custom codec for your controller). The combinator rotary is mapped to the pattern select property of the redrum in combinator programmer. You would get rid of the A/B switch maybe. The combinator rotary would also control switching the VOLT-SL when a pattern is changed.

Hi,

Well You have definitely made sense of what I am doing and managed to put it much better than I did!

I am going to have a deeper look into Your suggestions but I need to point out first of all that The Pongasoft RE is perfect for Me to see on screen "The Progression" of the 12 Sequences always leaving the top 4 Pads on The Orbit Free to be used for "The On The Fly" Samples.
I need to be able to use The Orbit almost without Thinking because I will be Playing other Instruments at the same time. I have two Orbits so someone else may need to press the next sequence Pad at some point and so that needs to be seen on a screen for all to see.

Sometimes if I remember correctly each "Song" had maybe 16 Samples but only 12 at once ie Verse Bass Chorus Bass Outro Bass etc

I will do some checking and get back to You.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

Chris

If you want to keep the Pongasoft RE but want to convert the individual CV outputs to one signal with different levels (values) you could use ModSelsor CV Selector & Sensor RE. This RE has an index output that indicates which input has been selected from the Pongasoft, say 1 - 12.
You could connect the index CV out to a combinator input CV which then controls the pattern selection on the redrum.

[pongasoft]

I press Kong Pad 1 and it initiates A Countdown and then Triggers The Pongsoft A/B Switch to "Open" The Corresponding Channel's Audio.

What do you mean by this? What is the countdown for and for how long?

Yan

You can use The Volt SV1 as A Count down for anything from 1/16th up to and above full Bars so that I can press My Orbits Pad and there is a delay before it "Kicks In" the next Sequence.

This is done by A CV Out of Volt into The Pongasoft.

Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance

Chris

Yes it makes sense now. I had actually thought about having an option in A/B 12 switch to be "tempo synced on switching" so that the switch is delayed until the next 1/16th or 1/4 or bar (etc...). But I didn't know if that was useful to anybody

I think I will add it to the list of things to do for the switch when I work on it again

Yan

[chrischrischris]

I press Kong Pad 1 and it initiates A Countdown and then Triggers The Pongsoft A/B Switch to "Open" The Corresponding Channel's Audio.

What do you mean by this? What is the countdown for and for how long?

Yan

You can use The Volt SV1 as A Count down for anything from 1/16th up to and above full Bars so that I can press My Orbits Pad and there is a delay before it "Kicks In" the next Sequence.

This is done by A CV Out of Volt into The Pongasoft.

Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance

Chris

Yes it makes sense now. I had actually thought about having an option in A/B 12 switch to be "tempo synced on switching" so that the switch is delayed until the next 1/16th or 1/4 or bar (etc...). But I didn't know if that was useful to anybody

I think I will add it to the list of things to do for the switch when I work on it again

Yan

YES!!!!

That would be amazing. I can already get a lot less DSP by just using 1 Volt for All Songs but it means a lot of wires which means it's harder to alter the order of Songs.

I personally would need an actual 4 light countdown like Volt has. I would be happy to help Test any Betas that You have.
I'm imagining that The Sample Loading SDK would be A Lifetimes Work to accomplish so I wont push You on that but maybe the option to change the colours of the pads individually to match The Users Pad Machine would be useful but not essential.
Maybe a switch to choose which pads are affected by "The Global Countdown Delay" would be useful too.

Thanks in advance

Chris