Are you a smug REASON users ?

[pjeudy]

Sonic Talk's take on REASON 9.5 and the implementation of VST...It's the week I'm sure you need a few minutes to stop surfing the forum, give your fingers a break

Also question...are you a smug REASON users ?

[kitekrazy]

I see eye to eye with that Gaz dude. I don't know if that's smug.

[pjeudy]

I see eye to eye with that Gaz dude. I don't know if that's smug.

Hehehe ....I laugh when I heard that..figured it would make for an interesting rebuttal to this weeks RE-VST debates and Reveal Sound's flagrant foul with there first ever RE Synth *oops* , which gave some die hard "no one's forcing them to install* VST nay Sayers a good laugh at SPIRE's Expanse <--see what I did there?

-welcome weekend.

[zeebot]

Conclusion: Nick Batt has no idea what he is talking about, users make tons of non pattern based tracks all the time.

[esselfortium]

I'm mostly left wondering why I just watched some people I don't know speculating randomly about a DAW they don't use.

[pjeudy]

I'm mostly left wondering why I just watched some people I don't know speculating randomly about a DAW they don't use.

Hehehe...
Well one said he would eventually go back (good news and an opportunity for Propellerhead to possibly keep'em faithful, that's part of what There flagship product and this major VST news should be aiming to do when ever possible)

The host says he's never tried it and part time Santa Claus GAz Williams said that he doesn't think that there's a place for REASON in the DAW community anymore Damm/burn

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[electrofux]

The massive Soundlibrary was a good argument to upgrade your old version and return though. Nick and Gaz had no clue but to their defense admitted it.
I wish Reason was more Pattern based like Ableton is btw.

[zeebot]

I'm mostly left wondering why I just watched some people I don't know speculating randomly about a DAW they don't use.

This is what frustrates me about people who have a negative opinion about the software, they have only done a cursory browse of its features with a traditional DAW hat on and slate it missing the whole point that Reason is NOT like other DAWs.
It is sound creation rabbit hole full of wires and routing, something that goes totally over the head of most alternative DAW users.

[Oquasec]

I've met many more assholes using fl studio and ableton than I have with most other daws.
I'd also beat the shit out of them using the aforementioned software.

[pjeudy]

It is sound creation rabbit hole full of wires and routing, something that goes totally over the head of most alternative DAW users.

But does it thought?

Does it go over there heads what types of ability they might be expecting from a Digital Audio Workstation? Sound design and wire-ring till your hearts content can't be all there is to be expected from a DAW? So maybe the reason that REASON doesn't captivate some people might be because they do notice it's number one attraction *looks/CV/plenty of sound design tools* and none of what they might consider as important, like time saving/innovating/workflow tools !?

Any way this will all be moot in the future. REASON, despite contrary beliefs, is moving more and more towards copying and implementing Features found on most major DAW. despite all these Reason is unique claims, she is headed there regardless....what makes her unique will still be there of course.

Adding Record in to The Rack, adding features found in other DAW (bounce in place double click for Midi notes, Melodyne like feature etc..) and most features request people are asking for REASON has there roots in other DAW's.

I no longer trust any major claims of REASON's CEO Ernst Nathorst-Böös...based on the turn around of his major claims..I can say with 100% certainty that we will see a full Recycle integration in Reason at some point. Props said in the past that Recycle sales are good on there own and that REASON already has a good enough representation of what Recycles offers already. "IF" R9.5 turns out to be profitable in a major way, they will do an about face on Recycle integration also.

[Oquasec]

The problem with that statement is that props isn't the only plugin devs, or daw makers with modular capabilities.
FL Studio had flowstone, then the patcher.
Studio one has 2d cables.
plogue bidule exists for the protools guys. Then reaktor [for those guys who like reaktor personally not interested in max/msp related plugs]
Then Synthedit [that modular synth that exports patches as entire plugins]
Kamiooka vst.

What separates Reason from those is it's ecosystem and design philosophy.
REASON USERS AREN'T SMARTER THAN OTHER DAW USERS CUZ THEY GOT WIRES AT THE BACK.

ALSO, 13 more MODULAR PLACES IN ANOTHER LINK http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/13- ... nts-610221

Reason is OVERTHOUGHT AND TAKEN TOO SERIOUSLY COMPARED TO OTHER DAWS WHICH IS WHAT I FIND HILARIOUS.

[FlowerSoldier]

Personally, I'm smug af. Functionally, all the other DAWs are the same. They record, sequence, and host VSTs. Reason pursued an entirely different path for years. Now, Reason can do everything the other DAWs can do, but none of them can do what Reason can do. Props inverted the game.

[pjeudy]

. Now, Reason can do everything the other DAWs can do,

No Reason can't....but it cuts both ways. Other DAW's can't do some of what REASON can.

It can do what matters most to make ANY type or genre of Music/sound. Propellerhead inverted the plugin game with it's rack then Rack Extension....But it's DAW aspect left plenty to be desired, but now Reason is clearly fighting for it's life and future... VST is a clear attempt in my opinion to stop a hemorrhaging that no one in Propellerheads will/can talk about, they have to keep smiling and making promo videos that makes it seem like it was part of there plans all along (of course).

The hype and joys of VST in REASON will past (people adapt quickly) then the same old feature request to make REASON like other DAW's will resume.
I think the games has perverted Ernst Nathorst thus Reason.

[MirEko]

Most reason users I've met in real life never even flip the rack.. sad but true

[groggy1]

Personally, I'm smug af. Functionally, all the other DAWs are the same. They record, sequence, and host VSTs. Reason pursued an entirely different path for years. Now, Reason can do everything the other DAWs can do, but none of them can do what Reason can do. Props inverted the game.

Yeah, this is a good way to look at it.

My 2 cents on what makes Reason special for me: I just like some of the workflows, especially since I'm used to them:
-- Automation: Super-easy to add an automation lane (In Sonar, my other DAW, I always get confused exactly how to do it)
-- Super easy to "remote" control a param with MIDI - In Sonar, setting-up the device mappings in ACT is a *nightmare* - I've spent weeks on it, and still not gotten it right
-- Combinators are killer. In sonar, there's the little "bin" for effects, how quaint.

I don't personally feel that "lack of VSTs" made Reason special, or somehow an "Instrument" instead of a DAW. But I can understand how others might look at it that way.

[syrokitty]

I find Reason to be pretty much the closest thing you can get to Max without having to build everything from scratch. With 9.5, I can effortlessly load in Zebra HZ/ Bazille and access up to 16 parameters via VST cv inlets and combinator cv/ rotary inlets. Combine that (heh) with being able to effortlessly (again) convert CV to audio and then back --- It's just immediate freedom and control wrapped in one of the more welcoming environments.

Sure M4L exists, and I've done my fair share of LOM diving when existing M4L devices came up short for my desired application, but (in my personal experience) it's far too longwinded a process to achieve things that can be easily implemented in Reason.

I've also messed around with bitwig, and have been wanting to try out 2.0 for a bit. (probably should download the demo already) but my experience is that it's more buggy and while the possibilities are fairly vast, they're not exactly the same. I also don't believe you can convert audio to cv and back. (This is something I use A LOT.) Lastly, I don't often work in 4, and last I checked, time sig changes either weren't afforded or the implementation left a lot to be desired.

[Oquasec]

And this, what he said. Reason is literally the embodiment of modular.
But it's a daw, and not whatever synthedit/max for live/reaktor is.
Which is why, it stays in use alongside Studio One :]

[FLVZ]

. Now, Reason can do everything the other DAWs can do,

No Reason can't....but it cuts both ways.

What can't Reason do ?

[RequiemMachine]

The thing that sets Reason apart from other DAWs is that its different things to different people. For one person its an instrument...to another person its a musical sketch pad...to another its a DAW.

For, someone who came up using a room full of hardware to produce, Reason makes more sense. It fits the way I work more than any other DAW. (I was trained on Pro Tools when I went to school and have used logic and Ableton for years as well). My ex-guitarist loves and uses Reason as well...but to him its a rack of samplers, synths and drum machines he loads into Sonar, because that's what works best for him.

[Oquasec]

I like using reason because when you hook that shit up to midi devices, you're getting an unlimited eurorack system that is nice and tidy.
That can either be used standalone or connected to another daw at any time :]

To me, Reason is the perfect modular system simulation software that also functions as a digital audio workstation [unlike most other modular environments not called usine hollyhock]

[SA Studio]

I'm mostly left wondering why I just watched some people I don't know speculating randomly about a DAW they don't use.

This is what frustrates me about people who have a negative opinion about the software, they have only done a cursory browse of its features with a traditional DAW hat on and slate it missing the whole point that Reason is NOT like other DAWs.
It is sound creation rabbit hole full of wires and routing, something that goes totally over the head of most alternative DAW users.

Sounds like the same reaction I have to people who have never or barely ever used VST who say a bunch of lies and misinformation about them.

There's a lot of that going on, and VST's havent even got here yet ~ 3 months into the update and everything should mellow out and people will see VST's aren't the monster they were once worried about.

[sublunar]

Probably.

When I started using a computer for musical purposes I had one goal in mind. To rely as little as possible on some janky proprietary software to make my music. As a pseudo mutli-instrumentalist (master of none) I was only in need of a multi-track audio recording software. I didn't want to get sucked into the black hole of plugins and other nonsense. I had an actual guitar, drums, bass, an analog mixer and a synth and plenty of mics. I found a simple program (cool edit pro) that had a great multi-track function and coming from a physical mixing standpoint CEP's mixing made sense. I didn't have to spend tons of time learning an overly complex software interface. I was content.

But among all the crappy DAWs out there that caught my attention from time to time, that Reason program always stuck out (in a good way) and I lusted after its virtual equipment. It made sense at first glance and I was inspired to touch it. It had all the goods by default, no need for plugins. BUT it didn't record audio. So it was practically useless to me. So I waited. And waited..

In the meantime, I arranged my music in a streamlined fashion without a single plugin getting in the way. Sure I occasionally tried some out but it was not a fun process and it really killed the creative flow. Comparing competing VSTs, downloads and installations and un-installations are a buzzkill.

Finally Propellerheads added the recording functionality and Reason was now my #1 crush. It had everything I needed and stuff I wanted to need. Eventually I was able to get my hands on it and it was glorious. I'm still in the process of re-doing my old stuff inside this environment. Now I'm experimenting with Rack Extensions and there's much less time wasted with downloads and installations compared to my experience with the VSTs of the past.

So now I'm jamming away with my stuff and some Rack Extensions and all of a sudden Reason decides it's going to give us VST support. In all the years that have passed since I started using computers for music, VSTs have come a long way and there's lots of good stuff out there I never even thought about before. I've made it this long without a single must-have VST so it was never a problem using Reason. Cue the smugness.

But now.. now it's an option. A nearly limitless option, especially considering what Reason already has in it. It's a good time to be a Reason user.

[esselfortium]

The title of this thread confuses me. I got the impression from the video that they were referring to non-Reason users feeling smug about Propellerhead caving and adding VST support after insistently going their own way for so long. Like a "told you so" kind of attitude from RE naysayers who see this as an admission of the format's failure. As a Reason user, what is there to be smug about from the VST announcement, exactly...?

[SA Studio]

It's a good time to be a Reason user.

Yessir. Agreed. A very exciting time and I can't wait to see things expand with all the possibilities.

I've said it before, but when people who haven't used Reason see how classy the software is, how stable/reliable, the very well thought out fit and finish, etc.....PLUS they get to use all the tools they're familiar with, the Reason environment is going to blow a lot of people's minds and also truly have a positive impact on their music making, which to me will be the best outcome of this whole thing. Totally exciting

[MDTerps2015]

It's a good time to be a Reason user.

Yessir. Agreed. A very exciting time and I can't wait to see things expand with all the possibilities.

I've said it before, but when people who haven't used Reason see how classy the software is, how stable/reliable, the very well thought out fit and finish, etc.....PLUS they get to use all the tools they're familiar with, the Reason environment is going to blow a lot of people's minds and also truly have a positive impact on their music making, which to me will be the best outcome of this whole thing. Totally exciting

It maybe a good time to be a Reason user but the smug question runs right along the line of me asking a question in a thread with the developer right there answering questions and accepting congrats and condolences. Maybe I'm the only one in the entire Reason world who has a problem with a rack extension and not even the developer has an answer. Like it crashes, which one, Mr OverDrive. Now that its free and everybody is having a coronary about it being free, doesn't bother them that there is actually a thread on it crashing and I gave it attention on that thread. Smug may not be the word but buying an RE from a developer who doesn't respond to you is like the kiss of death. Yeah Reason users can be smug and I think a ton of them are. There are a few I talk to all the time but they are cool as can be. BTW I paid for all three of this developers RE's, so yeah I'm a little upset.