Could Reason get a better multicore support?

[deepndark]

How adavanced Reason's multicore support is? My Intel i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40 Ghz 8,00 Gb RAM should still serve me for years.
Does Reason put account hyper threading or is it even possible? Could Reason's CPU usage be optimized more than what it is now?
Why does Microsoft slow our machines down with it's windows updates?

[deepndark]

As you know, Reason can have multiple racks side by side - how about one rack per a core?

[lzap]

VST will perhaps make things better, they will be separate processes most likely which will utilize more cores.

But doesn't R9 already support some kind of multi-threading? I vaugely remember some option in settings.

I am getting Ryzen 7 for sure, interested in this.

[satyr32]

I do not know about multicore support in Windows, but with OSX it is really really bad. Still I am not sure if it is Proppellerhead's fault or Apple's. I run Reason on Windows with Bootcamp to test the performance and it is about 15% bettern than with native OSX.

Since we now have VST. Maybe we can do some tests with other DAWs and Reason to see which performs better. I am pretty sure Reason performs worse than e.g. Ableton Live on OSX, again I do not know about Windows.

I hope Reason 10 will have better multicore support.

[Loque]

Reason supports multiple cores, but not hyperthreading afaik. I dont know details on implementation, but performance improvements are always possible and welcome.

[lzap]

That does make no sense, hyperthreading and cores are the same thing on the operating system level. These are both utilized via threads or processes.

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[ezelkow1]

Just looking at something like taskmgr may make you think they are the same at the OS level but programs can determine whether something is a physical or virtual core. The OS is also aware of what is physical and virtual and can use that to schedule something on a core that is separate from one who's resources are currently in use in order to not stall the other core.

There is also a difference in the power between the two. A hyperthread/virtual core is sharing resources with a physical core. An HT may have its own set of registers but its sharing an ALU and some other resources, which is what can kill audio performance since its very math heavy. You will just end up with 2 threads fighting over the ALU and end up with no performance gain or worse an actual slow down. This is not in every case but its quite possible, which is why multi-core/thread enabled vsts and hosts are generally aware of physical vs virtual cores to try to avoid this

[avasopht]

That does make no sense, hyperthreading and cores are the same thing on the operating system level. These are both utilized via threads or processes.

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Hyperthreading can lower performance for DSP type applications. Steinberg has a thread warning against it.

[kuhliloach]

This thread is making my cores question their self worth.

[Gorgon]

Fuck, not this again.

[avasopht]

Fuck, not this again.

I think to some people they've paid £1000 for a laptop or computer, and as far as they understand it they're only getting half of it. They can only run half of the synths and effects their system allows.

Of course people are going to ask about that.

[Gorgon]

Fuck, not this again.

I think to some people they've paid £1000 for a laptop or computer, and as far as they understand it they're only getting half of it. They can only run half of the synths and effects their system allows.

Of course people are going to ask about that.

That's a load of crap. The computer is a lot more than only the microprocessor. To think that hyperthreading (which IS actually supported in Reason, but not with audio rendering) is going to "double" your capacity is completely stupid.

[avasopht]

That's a load of crap. The computer is a lot more than only the microprocessor. To think that hyperthreading (which IS actually supported in Reason, but not with audio rendering) is going to "double" your capacity is completely stupid.

My point being, that people who are not computer savvy aren't exactly going to know the ins and outs. All they know is they were told more cores = more power, they have X cores, and Reason isn't utilizing them all for *something*, so they ask questions about it.

Then kind people simply inform them, and then now they know.

[Gorgon]

That's a load of crap. The computer is a lot more than only the microprocessor. To think that hyperthreading (which IS actually supported in Reason, but not with audio rendering) is going to "double" your capacity is completely stupid.

My point being, that people who are not computer savvy aren't exactly going to know the ins and outs. All they know is they were told more cores = more power, they have X cores, and Reason isn't utilizing them all for *something*, so they ask questions about it.

Then kind people simply inform them, and then now they know.

Oh, in that case, I think that hyperthreading eliminates the reason sound.

[lzap]

Found out it is possible to pin thread to individual CPU (or core or HT virtual core) and it is also possible to find which share resources (cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/topology/thread_siblings_list) so theoretically it is possible to schedule tasks in a way that HT threads are not in use. It is indeed challenging, dealing with many threads is a thing. Definitely not easy and as straightforward as in single thread.

The only reliable solution is getting better CPU and trying to avoid laptops at all costs, desktop CPU always beat laptop CPU from the same price range in single-thread performance.

[Gorgon]

Found out it is possible to pin thread to individual CPU (or core or HT virtual core) and it is also possible to find which share resources (cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/topology/thread_siblings_list) so theoretically it is possible to schedule tasks in a way that HT threads are not in use. It is indeed challenging, dealing with many threads is a thing. Definitely not easy and as straightforward as in single thread.

The only reliable solution is getting better CPU and trying to avoid laptops at all costs, desktop CPU always beat laptop CPU from the same price range in single-thread performance.

What's this linux stuff doing here? And Reason doesn't use a single thread, it uses multiple threads, and multiple cores, if available.

[lzap]

Single thread performance is very important, even if you try to parallelize most of your workload there is usually one process or thread that is a "choking point", this would be delivery of the signal to soundcard or something (I am just guessing). And if you have more power in single thread then you less likely need multiple cores. Anyway, sorry for the Linux command, I use it for work I was just checking out how to find this out. It will likely be similar in other OSes since hardware apparently publish this information.

[Oquasec]

I wonder how many constants are in propeller head reason's code.
I know for damn sure they probably wouldn't rewrite reason from the ground up yet lol.

[deepndark]

I wonder how many constants are in propeller head reason's code.
I know for damn sure they probably wouldn't rewrite reason from the ground up yet lol.

They have rewritten Reason from ground up at least once. Don't remember when it was.
Anyway, I'm going to reinstall my windows and will not install win 7 updates, this will give me about 12 more seconds playing time when I play that benchmark Reason song.

[Oquasec]

Dropped off windows 7 when 8 came out, then dropped 8 when 10 came out but keeping 8 on some machines.
7 got me into pc gaming though xD

[Jolla]

unfortunately Reason not supporting full my amd fx 350 CPU. only 4 core from 8. Other Daw , like Samplitude, Reaper use full power my cpu. It's sadly..


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[avasopht]

unfortunately Reason not supporting full my amd fx 350 CPU. only 4 core from 8. Other Daw , like Samplitude, Reaper use full power my cpu. It's sadly..


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They're not real cores and for DSP it doesn't always give a speed up. Where Reason processes in batches of 64 frames you might find hyperthreading causing spikes (or maybe they're just being conservative for the fun of it).

At most you might see 25% speedup using all virtual cores, but you might also suffer from frequent dropouts.

In any case I wouldn't worry about it. The aim is not to reach 100% CPU (that's unstable) but to facilitate production with minimal issues.

[Gorgon]

Dropped off windows 7 when 8 came out, then dropped 8 when 10 came out but keeping 8 on some machines.
7 got me into pc gaming though xD

Your signature is wrong. You can only use older versions if you actually have a license for those versions.

[Oquasec]

Ah.

[Jolla]

unfortunately Reason not supporting full my amd fx 350 CPU. only 4 core from 8. Other Daw , like Samplitude, Reaper use full power my cpu. It's sadly..


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They're not real cores and for DSP it doesn't always give a speed up. Where Reason processes in batches of 64 frames you might find hyperthreading causing spikes (or maybe they're just being conservative for the fun of it).

At most you might see 25% speedup using all virtual cores, but you might also suffer from frequent dropouts.

In any case I wouldn't worry about it. The aim is not to reach 100% CPU (that's unstable) but to facilitate production with minimal issues.

problem is that, amd fx350 is not 4 core with hyperthreading, it's 8-Core/8 thread CPU. that's not have hyperthreading like intel chip with 4 core.


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