Does anyone else think it is a mistake to allow Reason Essentials to support VST?

[plasticfractal]

Up until now, Reason had two big defining traits that made it unique among DAWS- It's workflow and physical rack interface, and the rack extensions. Now that it supports VST, people can just pay 69 dollars and basically have the quality of Reason minus some rack extensions. I worry that a ton of people will just buy Reason Essentials and never upgrade, especially if they are coming from another DAW and already have a big library of VSTs. I have two possible ideas of what they could do, but of course nobody asked for my opinion (but here it is anyway!)

1. Don't support VSTs in Reason Essentials (or maybe allow a maximum of three VST instances in a song).

2. Support VSTs in Reason Essentials along with all the rack extensions that come in regular Reason, but for a monthly subscription instead of a one time purchase. Additional rack extensions add to the subscription price, maybe.

I guess those are terrible ideas, but it seems like allowing people to just pay 69 dollars for a full featured DAW with the quality interface and workflow of Reason is just bad business, when other DAWS charge 600 dollars or more for what is essentially the same experience (and they DON'T include rack extensions!)

[pushedbutton]

perhaps they have some faith in the updated RE format and Reason 10 V's its essentials counterpart will have more advantages we've not explored yet.

[plasticfractal]

perhaps they have some faith in the updated RE format and Reason 10 V's its essentials counterpart will have more advantages we've not explored yet.

I hope so. As it is right now, it looks like they are just aggressively undercutting the market. Why would anyone pay 600+ dollars for any other DAW when they can get Reason for 69 dollars and just use all their VSTs there? It's extremely pro-consumer though, that's for sure.

[CephaloPod]

perhaps they have some faith in the updated RE format and Reason 10 V's its essentials counterpart will have more advantages we've not explored yet.

I hope so. As it is right now, it looks like they are just aggressively undercutting the market. Why would anyone pay 600+ dollars for any other DAW when they can get Reason for 69 dollars and just use all their VSTs there? It's extremely pro-consumer though, that's for sure.

The days of $600 DAWS are probably numbered. Mac users can already get Logic Pro X for $200 (still the best bang for your buck in music production, IMO).

[esselfortium]

I think it's a great idea, actually -- it makes Reason an extremely attractive inexpensive VST host, which is likely to open it up to a whole new customer base and get more new musicians looking into Reason as an option.

[joeyluck]

I think it's a great idea, actually -- it makes Reason an extremely attractive inexpensive VST host, which is likely to open it up to a whole new customer base and get more new musicians looking into Reason as an option.

Exactly

[zakalwe]

yeah it's slightly eyebrow raising but it makes essentials a super competitive low end host. like s1 artist requires you to buy an add on, for example, to use vsts.

[stratatonic]

I thought Essentials having VST support was a head scratcher as well. Usually lite version DAWs are crippled so you want to upgrade.

I suppose VerPropellerhead's first strategy is increasing the user base as fast as they can. Something even bigger in the near future must be the lure to the full version. Or something else is on tap.

I am on Reason 8.3, but I am tempted to just buy Essentials instead of upgrading for 129 - the crippled functionality can be made up with plugs.

Anyone have a copy of Essentials they want to sell? PM me.

[Oquasec]

I keep using the full version since I actually use the ones not included in essentials [Started with version 5]
I wonder where that reason version comparison link went with the differences between each version... hm...
Ah found it, https://www.propellerheads.se/en/reason
When it came to fl studio, Stuck to fruity edition.

[madmacman]

I wonder where that reason version comparison link went with the differences between each version... hm...
Ah found it, https://www.propellerheads.se/en/reason

Well, after a quick look over the comparison chart: Even if I'm not the plugin / VST junkie (could live well without VST support), I would miss the excellent Mixer features and MidiOut in the Essentials version. This you can't compensate with additional plugins.

[Oquasec]

Seems each stock reason device is 5-15$ a plugin, since the full version is 300-400$ and it has 35 modules plus the other features listed.

[sdst]

Does anyone else think it is a mistake to allow Reason Essentials to support VST?

No, It's a good move

There are very good DAW for $60 REAPER 5 , MuLab 7 and now Essentials

Most Essentials users at some point they will upgrade to the full reason

[chk071]

I was surprised too that Essentials supports VST. IMO, when PH implement VST Midi plugins, you can easily stock up Essentials functionality with an arpeggiator, get the missing phaser in VST form, and also get a more sophisticated delay as the simple one you have in Essentials. Not sure if PH really thought all that through.

Which again makes me think a bit if that really was a decision they took by themselves, "long before the new investor took over" as it has been stated. I would say that many things speak against that. I mean, what were they thinking really? Of course everyone will stock up Reason MASSIVELY with VST's now. Which leaves the question what makes Reason so special then, as i already have been saying dozens of times, when people asked for VST support...

[Jonathan10]

Does essentials have players? If so its really not to diff from full bersion. But players is worth the upgrade price to full version imo. They are very well thought out. I hardly ever don't use.

[tumar]

No, It's a good move

There are very good DAW for $60 REAPER 5 , MuLab 7 and now Essentials

Most Essentials users at some point they will upgrade to the full reason

Even better-full DAW Tracktion 5 is now free With VST support.

https://www.tracktion.com/products/t5-daw

[avasopht]

I think it's a good idea, because it's either they spend that money on Reason Essentials or some other offering like Reaper.

[Zac]

I think it's great. I can inspire my niece and she can expand as she grows.

[Oquasec]

Nope, because that makes it another reaper.

[JiggeryPokery]

I thought Essentials having VST support was a head scratcher as well. Usually lite version DAWs are crippled so you want to upgrade.

I suppose VerPropellerhead's first strategy is increasing the user base as fast as they can. Something even bigger in the near future must be the lure to the full version. Or something else is on tap.

I am on Reason 8.3, but I am tempted to just buy Essentials instead of upgrading for 129 - the crippled functionality can be made up with plugs.

Anyone have a copy of Essentials they want to sell? PM me.

Reason 9 vs Reason Essentials 9 Comparison sheet
https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... entials-9/


I'm don't feel it's a mistake to include VST support in Essentials, per se, but looking at the list above, if users can install ∞ * [cracked] VSTs, which would replace pretty much all the missing devices (probably only CV related tools are a significant loss: an RE based sequencer/arp to stand in for RPG-8, and an Ammo 100LA to cover basic LFO needs better than a Pulsar , would be the most useful additions for many Essentials users), I don't see what the upgrade path to Reason is that would provide a significant benefit. It would be really nice to have figures for how many Essentials users actually buy REs (and indeed, how many people actually use Essentials). But my guess is "not many"; and of those who would now buy VSTs explicitly for Essentials, my guess would be "not many"; and of those who would torrent VSTs, my guess would be "more than who wouldn't"; and of those who wouldn't pirate or buy anything, but access legitamately free VSTs, of whatever quality, my guess would be "the majority".

If a user can write a track in Essentials with the all stuff that's been missing to date, and "limited ReFill support" (whatever that means), if you can now add those missing devices with a couple of REs and load of free VSTs, why would you pay the extra upgrade to full Reason? Essentials is the cheap version for younger users with, presumably, little to no disposable income.

So having unlimited audio and instrument tracks potentially is the bigger error of judgment with regards to Essentials.

And indeed, that's usually the most significant limitation of these types of lite-versions. So I think you're right: Reason Essentials is now just Reason with some native but mostly replaceable devices removed, with little compelling unique functionality to upgrade.

[sdst]

No offense but, Why not let the poor guys enjoy Reason? Not everyone has the money for a Full reason

to me Reason Essentials with VST is great

a very good strategy to attract people to reason

[Oquasec]

Because Reason is priced properly, as is other daws for what you get.
Fl studio only charges you arms and legs for their plugins to make up for the free lifetime updates. [You're not reselling it in your lifetime either]

And again...reason is a virtual unlimited modular rack system for peanuts as an upgrade fee, an entry level version the same price as console games and full versions that allow you to do wtf ever you want to do with sounds and compositions period.
A reasonable reason to cough up dimes and nickels.

I'll use examples. Reason is burst limit.

Daws that have tons of vsts are this

[Gulale]

I thought Essentials having VST support was a head scratcher as well. Usually lite version DAWs are crippled so you want to upgrade.

I suppose VerPropellerhead's first strategy is increasing the user base as fast as they can. Something even bigger in the near future must be the lure to the full version. Or something else is on tap.

I am on Reason 8.3, but I am tempted to just buy Essentials instead of upgrading for 129 - the crippled functionality can be made up with plugs.

Anyone have a copy of Essentials they want to sell? PM me.

Reason 9 vs Reason Essentials 9 Comparison sheet
https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... entials-9/


I'm don't feel it's a mistake to include VST support in Essentials, per se, but looking at the list above, if users can install ∞ * [cracked] VSTs, which would replace pretty much all the missing devices (probably only CV related tools are a significant loss: an RE based sequencer/arp to stand in for RPG-8, and an Ammo 100LA to cover basic LFO needs better than a Pulsar , would be the most useful additions for many Essentials users), I don't see what the upgrade path to Reason is that would provide a significant benefit. It would be really nice to have figures for how many Essentials users actually buy REs (and indeed, how many people actually use Essentials). But my guess is "not many"; and of those who would now buy VSTs explicitly for Essentials, my guess would be "not many"; and of those who would torrent VSTs, my guess would be "more than who wouldn't"; and of those who wouldn't pirate or buy anything, but access legitamately free VSTs, of whatever quality, my guess would be "the majority".

If a user can write a track in Essentials with the all stuff that's been missing to date, and "limited ReFill support" (whatever that means), if you can now add those missing devices with a couple of REs and load of free VSTs, why would you pay the extra upgrade to full Reason? Essentials is the cheap version for younger users with, presumably, little to no disposable income.

So having unlimited audio and instrument tracks potentially is the bigger error of judgment with regards to Essentials.

And indeed, that's usually the most significant limitation of these types of lite-versions. So I think you're right: Reason Essentials is now just Reason with some native but mostly replaceable devices removed, with little compelling unique functionality to upgrade.

I was about too write the same thing. To me now the essential and full version the difference is neck and neck. pitch editor? come on they can use waves. send effect 4 come on even 8 has never been enough I always ended up duplicating track for wet. SSL Bus compressor? there is much better one Glue. Hey if one has essential they don't need the full version all they have to do is know how to use them. like I said everything is replaceable using VST. I totally agree.

[Oquasec]

Read through a new manual a few days back and figured out the point of reason 9.
It's not really about relying on thirdparty as much as most other daws not called cubase/studio one/fl studio/ableton.
It's about cramming as many things from the start as possible to ensure smooth operations for most tasks

For more niche/newer/even mor especialized tasks...Extend and broaden your horizons then.

[deepndark]

So you are worried that Propellers will lose money? There's so many reasons to get full copy of Reason anyway though. You think it form the Props angle but not poor people's angle IMO.

[joeyluck]

So short story is that many people will buy Essentials that weren't going to buy any version of Reason at all before?
I would say start there and then assess your concerns...