Does anyone else think it is a mistake to allow Reason Essentials to support VST?

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lowpryo
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30 Apr 2017

sure there might be some potential Reason purchases lost to people who only buy Essentials. but there's also a lot of Essentials purchases gained from people who wouldn't have considered full Reason. and those people are likely to upgrade down the road. especially since they're the type of user who buys VSTs.

and in general, consumers really shouldn't worry about business decisions like that. we don't really know the financial data, market statistics, future plans, etc. all of the things that Props considers when they make business decisions.

deepndark
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30 Apr 2017

lowpryo wrote:sure there might be some potential Reason purchases lost to people who only buy Essentials. but there's also a lot of Essentials purchases gained from people who wouldn't have considered full Reason. and those people are likely to upgrade down the road. especially since they're the type of user who buys VSTs.

and in general, consumers really shouldn't worry about business decisions like that. we don't really know the financial data, market statistics, future plans, etc. all of the things that Props considers when they make business decisions.
:thumbs_up:

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Daniel36
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30 Apr 2017

Where are you reading that Essentials will get vst support? Because I can't find it anywhere, other than the possibility for Essentials users to participate in a beta that could just as well be the full version, much like a trial.

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EnochLight
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30 Apr 2017

plasticfractal wrote:Does anyone else think it is a mistake to allow Reason Essentials to support VST?
Absolutely not. I would have considered it a mistake if it didn't offer full support for VST, especially seeing how it supports RE's and the PropShop. Essentials is an affordable gateway to getting new customers into Reason's ecosystem, nothing more. If a user buys RE's for Essential, then that makes Props money. If the user stays with it and decides to upgrade to the full version of Reason, then that makes Props money.

If users can also use their purchased VST's in Reason, that offers said user a feature to stay within Reason - and possibly upgrade to full version at a future date. It just makes complete sense to me, and would have been a complete blunder (IMHO) had they not offered it in Essentials as well. Just my 2 cents! :)
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WongoTheSane
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30 Apr 2017

Daniel36 wrote:Where are you reading that Essentials will get vst support? Because I can't find it anywhere, other than the possibility for Essentials users to participate in a beta that could just as well be the full version, much like a trial.
It was an official statement by the Props. If you have Essentials and register for the beta, you'll be testing Essentials 9.5 with VSTs.

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Daniel36
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30 Apr 2017

Thanks! That is huge!! No cash for full version, but updating to RE9 is within the budget and opens up a whole world for me!

The Tone Ranger
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30 Apr 2017

I've just been looking at the comparison chart and think there's a massive difference.

No Thor so no converting CV to audio or audio to CV.
No players
Very basic SSL
No audio transpose, pitch editing etc
No blocks
No midi out
No ableton link

It's got VST but it's pretty useless with hardware synths both MIDI and CV. Nope not for me.

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Spryx
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30 Apr 2017

Yea. Essentials should be RE only.
latest:

tibah
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30 Apr 2017

If you think about cheap VST hosts, there are a bunch of even cheaper or free solutions, so making Essentials *VST enabled* isn't actually a bad thing.

If you go that route, you could argue why there is a version like Essentials in the first place, or why it should not only have stock devices and no support for any additional format...

And why those guys with Reason 3 somewhere on the shelf can now get VST support too with one of the cheapest upgrade paths available? :twisted: It's weird that a thing no one know would happen is already an exclusive right 2 days after the announcement. :lol:

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Oquasec
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30 Apr 2017

"poor" people would simply need to choose one over the other and do a lot of RESEARCH ON WHAT THEY BUY.
Which means if you're poor, don't waste your money on anything you're sure you do not want to use :lol:
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stratatonic
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30 Apr 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
Reason 9 vs Reason Essentials 9 Comparison sheet
https://www.propellerheads.se/support/u ... entials-9/
If a user can write a track in Essentials with the all stuff that's been missing to date, and "limited ReFill support" (whatever that means), if you can now add those missing devices with a couple of REs and load of free VSTs, why would you pay the extra upgrade to full Reason? Essentials is the cheap version for younger users with, presumably, little to no disposable income.

So having unlimited audio and instrument tracks potentially is the bigger error of judgment with regards to Essentials.

And indeed, that's usually the most significant limitation of these types of lite-versions. So I think you're right: Reason Essentials is now just Reason with some native but mostly replaceable devices removed, with little compelling unique functionality to upgrade.
Well, it depends on your workflow for sure. I really like the mixer channel strips the way they are set up. I could set up a template with comp and EQ, but you can't change the routing of the strip either. I'd just be annoyed mixing in that environment. I'd have to export my tracks out to mix.

For the original creating, well, still mulling that over. I don't think there's much of a downside - unless you are heavily into CV...
JiggeryPokery wrote:... an RE based sequencer/arp to stand in for RPG-8, and an Ammo 100LA to cover basic LFO needs better than a Pulsar :puf_wink: , would be the most useful additions for many Essentials users),
Well, if I didn't already have Pulsar as an RE, you know I would jump on that Ammo 100LA in a flash!.. :puf_wink:

No VST sequencer/arp midi support in 9.5? In retrospect, makes sense that Players were introduced in R9. Guess they knew then that VST support was just around the corner. Another showcase for Reason devices, along with the current seq REs.


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stratatonic
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30 Apr 2017

esselfortium wrote:I think it's a great idea, actually -- it makes Reason an extremely attractive inexpensive VST host, which is likely to open it up to a whole new customer base and get more new musicians looking into Reason as an option.
Yeah, on further thought, I'd agree with that. Looks like Props main strategy is just build up the user base as fast as they can to the latest version that can support the latest RE SDK.
And I could see more VST functionality crippling anyway in future Essentials upgrade: Not allowing the midi-based VST to work , no proper multi-channel support, no VST 3 support, folder, hide/show tracks... or whatever else is coming in Reason.

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stratatonic
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30 Apr 2017

CephaloPod wrote:
plasticfractal wrote: I hope so. As it is right now, it looks like they are just aggressively undercutting the market. Why would anyone pay 600+ dollars for any other DAW when they can get Reason for 69 dollars and just use all their VSTs there? It's extremely pro-consumer though, that's for sure.
The days of $600 DAWS are probably numbered. Mac users can already get Logic Pro X for $200 (still the best bang for your buck in music production,
IMO).
Yeah, Apple fucked it up for a lot of music software makers. But for us production consumers, it's slowly bringing prices down all round. Good for us, but there may be some casualties in DAW land soon. Heh, maybe Propellerhead was propping up a handful of them, by denying VST in Reason for so long, that many Reason users were looking for plug-in solutions elsewhere.

Will those users continue to upgrade their other DAWs anymore?


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pushedbutton
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30 Apr 2017

It's just the way the world's turning. 18 years ago if you wanted studio quality music you needed studio equipment, if you wanted high definition video you needed a cinema camera, if you wanted to distribute media you needed a distribution company. Film making couldn't be a hobby for schoolkids, samplers were expensive,computers were expensive, midi controllers were expensive, knowledge was harder to come by. We didn't get YouTube until 5 years after the first iteration of Reason. If you were buying Reason you were part of a much smaller target market than we have today. most of us were using slow ass dialup, CD burners cost over £300.
There was still a music industry, the music charts were based on CD sales, not downloads or streams, if you were a musician there was still some mysticism around how you crafted your wares. These days anyone can do it and they do.
Which makes me wonder how Adobe get away with their pricing model, but that's another story.
@pushedbutton on twitter, add me, send me a message, but don't try to sell me stuff cos I'm skint.
Using Reason since version 3 and still never finished a song.

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ravisoni
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30 Apr 2017

I think they will limit the number of VST instances in Reason Essentials.
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EnochLight
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30 Apr 2017

pushedbutton wrote:It's just the way the world's turning. 18 years ago if you wanted studio quality music you needed studio equipment, if you wanted high definition video you needed a cinema camera, if you wanted to distribute media you needed a distribution company. Film making couldn't be a hobby for schoolkids, samplers were expensive,computers were expensive, midi controllers were expensive, knowledge was harder to come by. We didn't get YouTube until 5 years after the first iteration of Reason. If you were buying Reason you were part of a much smaller target market than we have today. most of us were using slow ass dialup, CD burners cost over £300.
There was still a music industry, the music charts were based on CD sales, not downloads or streams, if you were a musician there was still some mysticism around how you crafted your wares. These days anyone can do it and they do.
Which makes me wonder how Adobe get away with their pricing model, but that's another story.
I know this is off topic, but the democratization of music creation and distribution - where anyone can do it now - it sort of awesome. It's liberating. I can't even imagine how many unknown brilliant potential musicians and/or producers were lost 18 years ago and further just because these things were't available to them.

I realize there's a lot of shit to wade through these days, but it's never been easier to be a musician or producer. Right now, the only excuse is lack of talent/skills or patience to learn, because the tools can be had for the price of typical 1 week of pay (in the 1st world, anyway).
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unisyn
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01 May 2017

Agreed.

I assume that in R10 Full they'd
decrease the price OR add more exclusive features / native devices

But either way, I doubt it'd have impact towards the current Reason user base.
Me thinks this is a conscious choice to hack in to the market.

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Oquasec
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01 May 2017

They really fixed the workflow when not using modules to compose after 5 tbh lmao.
Each update the workflow gets quicker and quicker, this thing is so seamless I might keep using rewire with it.
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Bunja

13 May 2017

ravisoni wrote:I think they will limit the number of VST instances in Reason Essentials.

no there not I asked them no limitations for my reason essentials

I already got me a tal vocoder

a free autotune thing ( if I use it lol ) plus some zplane thing that can do a little bit of pitch editing

I have polar synchronous, audiomatic , selig gain , synapse eq , and kuassa eq racks from before

got two skrock synths ( auroura and solaris from before ) and added camel audio alchemy player cm ( nice sounds in there )

got xln audios addictive keys upright for free from focusrite )

camel crusher ,
tdr nova to replace not having the eq and spectrum analizer on ever channel

kuassas efektor replacing the gate

what else do I need now maybe a better pitch editor

why do I need the full version ?

why ? not now anyway

because I bet you any money 10 will have so much shit that everyone will want it
there not gonna give everyone vst for free and then don't make them upgrade to 10

everyone will run out buy 9 for vst

and the next 10 update everyone will want it and pay again
I bet they add more sounds more synths all the missing stuff other daws have
now they have vst they will try to become a proper daw ( by that I don't mean my definition of one I always thought it was the man not the tools that makes the music ) but as a college teacher said to me a few years ago "reason aint professional your a fool to buy it "( I did buy the full verion a few versions back that's another story ) but I quickly missed it and got essentials , because I'm not a ten million plugin guy , but now I can just replace kind of what im missing , and to that teacher whos laughing now pal vst , and I bet a mega mega upgrade on 10 , and reason will become the best daw coz its a trendy catchy logo /brand

Bunja

13 May 2017

racks do look nicer though I must admit

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FlowerSoldier
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13 May 2017

The Tone Ranger wrote:I've just been looking at the comparison chart and think there's a massive difference.

No Thor so no converting CV to audio or audio to CV.
No players
Very basic SSL
No audio transpose, pitch editing etc
No blocks
No midi out
No ableton link

It's got VST but it's pretty useless with hardware synths both MIDI and CV. Nope not for me.
These are very compelling reasons to upgrade IMO.

Bunja

13 May 2017

pitch editing is all i'm missing from that list , and you forgot no kong and malstrom , no apreggiator , no neptune and smaller sound bank or orkestor etc ,
all things i dont need ( albeit neptune or pitch edit)
you either need these things or you don't
i didnt before i had full reason 7 ( sold it for 160 and got essentials 9 for 50 quid needed cash dont ask ) and i don't miss much of anything the recycle type feature to quantize audio is the main thing i wanted , i did feel sad i haven't got the pitch edit , players id never use them tbh , but now if i want with vst i could add some pitch editor plug ins ,
as it is i've downloaded gsnap and zplane vielklang cm
if there not good enough waves tune lt is only 24 dollars somewhere
or the full one is only a bit more , ( or other options )

i wasnt sad even before vst because we had some good rack extensions

the only problem there was lack of some third party vocal editing RE
like i said , i think reason will make version 10 massive

(edit) couple of refills i had from before i had to discard for essentials ( refill support is crappy , but i have expanse , reason drums and bass , and i use nnxt and redrum kits from them packs so having less choices suits a procrastinator like me lol

but all in all reason essentials is a good thing for me , i wouldn't have upgraded anyway even if we never got vst
i was using sony acid music studio 10 for a few few vst plugins, 9.5 means i can ditch that bollox, in fact i already did gave it to my guitar playing brother ,he just wants to record audio so its fine for him , peace

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stratatonic
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13 May 2017

Bunja wrote:pitch editing is all i'm missing from that list , and you forgot no kong and malstrom , no apreggiator , no neptune and smaller sound bank or orkestor etc ,
all things i dont need ( albeit neptune or pitch edit)
you either need these things or you don't
i didnt before i had full reason 7 ( sold it for 160 and got essentials 9 for 50 quid needed cash dont ask ) and i don't miss much of anything the recycle type feature to quantize audio is the main thing i wanted , i did feel sad i haven't got the pitch edit , players id never use them tbh , but now if i want with vst i could add some pitch editor plug ins ,
as it is i've downloaded gsnap and zplane vielklang cm
if there not good enough waves tune lt is only 24 dollars somewhere
or the full one is only a bit more , ( or other options )

i wasnt sad even before vst because we had some good rack extensions

the only problem there was lack of some third party vocal editing RE
like i said , i think reason will make version 10 massive

(edit) couple of refills i had from before i had to discard for essentials ( refill support is crappy , but i have expanse , reason drums and bass , and i use nnxt and redrum kits from them packs so having less choices suits a procrastinator like me lol

but all in all reason essentials is a good thing for me , i wouldn't have upgraded anyway even if we never got vst
i was using sony acid music studio 10 for a few few vst plugins, 9.5 means i can ditch that bollox, in fact i already did gave it to my guitar playing brother ,he just wants to record audio so its fine for him , peace
Yeah, your results may vary. If you are into real world instruments - bass, guitars, drums, pianos, vocals, ... I think Essentials is a great deal. Lots of great refills you can use, and with VST support, synths and other sampled instruments and FX plugs to cover the missing functionality in the main program.l.

If you like playing with LFOs and CV and modular, then you might find you want to move on to the main program.

I'm sure that there will be some surprises in Reason 10 not offered in Essentials that will make you want to get the bigger version. Pure speculation, of course. :D

Bunja

13 May 2017

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avasopht
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13 May 2017

Haha, brilliant!

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