Reason 9.5 – VST in Reason

[Gorgon]

Reason's code base has been around for more than 15 years.

And lots of it has been rewritten.

And while I'm sure they've been working on it for a while, there must be a multitude of issues to work through as a result of slicing open Reason's guts to graft in VST support.

No such thing. Propellerhead is a clever company so they've probably been preparing this for years. Also, the RE format has a lot of similarities with VST plugins, so they could use a lot of the same "hooks" in the software.

[jonheal]

Reason's code base has been around for more than 15 years.

And lots of it has been rewritten.

And while I'm sure they've been working on it for a while, there must be a multitude of issues to work through as a result of slicing open Reason's guts to graft in VST support.

No such thing. Propellerhead is a clever company so they've probably been preparing this for years. Also, the RE format has a lot of similarities with VST plugins, so they could use a lot of the same "hooks" in the software.

You have no idea whatsoever what the code looks like. But yeah they got it working, and I imagine things will get only smoother.

[Gorgon]

You have no idea whatsoever what the code looks like. But yeah they got it working, and I imagine things will get only smoother.

I have an idea. I have lots of ideas. The code doesn't have any "guts" though.

[jonheal]

go away.

[woodsdenis]

Working on a vocal track today and added the Slate Virtual Mix Rack plugin with Channel/Comp/EQ/VTC plugs and the Reason DSP meter shot up a bar. Added the Eiosis Deesser and it shot up another bar. I hate to keep comparing Reaper to Reason, but it's the only other DAW i use. Adding these would hardly make a dent in Reaper. The Slate plugins, although they have had a few buggy problems thru-out their history, are very efficient and allow for many instances in most DAWs. Hope the Props team is hammering it out working on this stuff and we see an update soon addressing the VST/DSP issues.

Many others are having similar issues.
Props so far have not said much.

I have just upgraded from V3 !!!!!! It does it own thing so well but VST optimisation is not great. Izotope Ozone will push it over the edge very easily, not a CPU light plugin anyway but much worse in Reason. It can only get better.

[Hauser+Quaid]

Just finished my first full mix in 9.5! Had to bump up my latency to 512 to get it to play w/o glitches (had to play live from start to finish because I'm using some hardware) but eventually I got it to work. Running a 2010 Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz Quad Core, 16Gb RAM.

Final track count was:
Racks & RE Inst: 12
Racks & RE FX: 7
VST Inst: 3
VST FX: 15
Audio: 7 (most were bounces of VSTs)

All in all not bad but definitely still a long way to go before I'll feel comfortable doing everything for a final production with Reason only. This is of course also my first try at it so I'm sure I'll figure out some tricks and things as I go. I also plan to upgrade my computer at some point but unfortunately not for a while, I still have a lot of work to get done in the meantime. Enjoying the process so far though!

[Oquasec]

Reason had access to the regular vsts but not that new module with dedicated cv connections.
Reason's built in devices are very versatile, but they are still stock modules.

With that being said, they still gettin my use heavily.

[Vesterager]

I did that.

Capture.PNG

Drag Ozone in the Rack?

Drag from where?

Drag one of these?

Capture.PNG

FYI
I'm on mac but Ozone 3 would not work with Reason 9.5 and when I asked Isotope support about it they say Ozone 3 is no longer supported. So I guess it's upgrade or let Ozone go.

[woodsdenis]

Pretty shocking comparison , linked is Reason next are Cubase and S1

[rigglebeats]

Testing DEMO of Reason 9.5 with VST plugins and instruments and it definitely needs serious performance improvement. All native things work great but all VST plugins and instruments eat 2-3x more CPU in comparison to Ableton or Logic AU. I have 12-Core E5 Xeon but using VST in Reason feels like I have old 2-Core CPU. Moreover 15 years old Hyperthreading technology is not supported .... Oh my goodness. Is current Reason code that one from version 1?

yes but you have to remember those other programs have had vst's for years upon years, this is the first implementation propellerheads have officially released,
they will make it better, you cant really expect it to be perfect straight away, and reason does have hyper threading not that I can use it on my 2500k anway

[Tumble]

Is Serum (1.2b4) having choppy visuals in Reason a known bug? The dot running along the envelope is at a rather low fps

[MattiasHG]

Pretty shocking comparison , linked is Reason next are Cubase and S1

Shocking, but not an entirely accurate way to measure.

Regardless, we're actually working on performance improvements right now so we hope to release something soon.

[jfrichards]

Thanks Mattias, I've been reducing the number of tracks and effects and instrument complexity for a couple of years little by little. Any optimization will be greatly appreciated.

[woodsdenis]

Pretty shocking comparison , linked is Reason next are Cubase and S1

Shocking, but not an entirely accurate way to measure.

Regardless, we're actually working on performance improvements right now so we hope to release something soon.

Not my vid just linking, why is not a accurate way to measure ?

[WongoTheSane]

Pretty shocking comparison , linked is Reason next are Cubase and S1

Shocking, but not an entirely accurate way to measure.

Regardless, we're actually working on performance improvements right now so we hope to release something soon.

Not my vid just linking, why is not a accurate way to measure ?

In Reason, he chains the devices in series, while on the other two DAWs, he mixes parallel and serial. Serial is more taxing that parallel, as you have to wait for the last device to send data before you can output the audio. In parallel, all devices work "at the same time" (i.e. within the same time frame), and the signals are simply summed at the end. I'm pretty sure he could easily double the number of devices in Reason by creating a separate track with each device, instead of chaining them.

Also, just a hunch because I don't know how each DAW works, but some could allocate a time slot for each device at all times ("keep it spinning so it's ready when needed"), while others could only do so when some signal is detected. The only way to make sure this choice doesn't influence the test would be to have a "real life" test, i.e. an identical song playing. And even then, you would have to make sure that the song uses as many of the device's possibilities as some DAWs may handle different functions differently. Some are good with super fast FFTs, others excel at UI updates, etc).

[woodsdenis]

Pretty shocking comparison , linked is Reason next are Cubase and S1

Shocking, but not an entirely accurate way to measure.

Regardless, we're actually working on performance improvements right now so we hope to release something soon.

Not my vid just linking, why is not a accurate way to measure ?

In Reason, he chains the devices in series, while on the other two DAWs, he mixes parallel and serial. Serial is more taxing that parallel, as you have to wait for the last device to send data before you can output the audio. In parallel, all devices work "at the same time" (i.e. within the same time frame), and the signals are simply summed at the end. I'm pretty sure he could easily double the number of devices in Reason by creating a separate track with each device, instead of chaining them.

Also, just a hunch because I don't know how each DAW works, but some could allocate a time slot for each device at all times ("keep it spinning so it's ready when needed"), while others could only do so when some signal is detected. The only way to make sure this choice doesn't influence the test would be to have a "real life" test, i.e. an identical song playing. And even then, you would have to make sure that the song uses as many of the device's possibilities as some DAWs may handle different functions differently. Some are good with super fast FFTs, others excel at UI updates, etc).

Cheers TX

[demt]

from grinding halts(allmost) last week everything seems to have gone back to normal and is working like a dream doesnt seem to matter how many vsts i use the dsp is around 3

[soundmodel]

Why are my SSL Duende plug-ins not showing up in Reason 9.5?
Pointing Reaper (x64) to the same folder, the plug-ins do show up. The plug-ins are x86.

[avasopht]

Why are my SSL Duende plug-ins not showing up in Reason 9.5?
Pointing Reaper (x64) to the same folder, the plug-ins do show up. The plug-ins are x86.

Reason only supports 64-bit VSTs, so you will have to use jBridge. Reaper has its own built in 32-to-64-bit VST bridge.

[Steedus]

So I recently finally upgraded to v9.5 from v6.5. While I'm liking it so far I have definitely noticed certain things take a bit longer to do now. Mainly exporting a song. Even when I import a stereo mixdown for a final normalise (ie no effects or VSTs used) it can take up to 5 seconds to "pre-calculate" the file to normalise it, and then up to 30 seconds to "pre-calculate" the exporting process, and then start to export. It's used to be instant. My PC isn't exactly under-powered either (quad-core i7 HT, 12GB RAM). I take it this is normal?

[Steedus]

So I have to reiterate, I'm working on a track now with quite a few guitar amps (the softube one), retro transformers and other built in devices, and 2 VSTs (a piano and TSAR-1R x1) and it's at the point where I cannot play through the whole 5 minute song without Reason stopping and saying it's too slow... sigh .. maybe it's time to upgrade to an 18 core Zeon monstrosity

I regularly use to run heaps of Line 6 amps and reverbs etc etc with no worries. Could the fact that the softube amps are now technically "rack extensions" rather than native devices have an impact on DSP? Reason 9 really does feel, 'heavier', now.

[Beatmakaz]

Experiencing audio dropouts with VST's just downloaded reason 9.5.1 and still having audio problems and definitely have a computer that can handle it. Audio clipping on vst's. Usually when running Akai MPC Ren, or NI Machine Studio.

Also Have Protools 12.6 and Cubase 9 and no problems. Only after reason 9.5 upgrade did issues start inside reason.

OS X el Capitan
2 x 2.8 Quad Core Intel Xeon
32GB 667 Mhz DDR2 FB-Dimm
Running
2 Focusrite Saffire Pro 40's


Any Ideas?????????

[supersmarter]

Any Ideas?????????

No ideas it's just their first VST implementation and that is all. Reason VST performance is really poor (even if comparison is done properly-read parallel channels etc.) but rest assured Propellerheads are not blind and are working on it. Developer himself posted here and said it - people should give em a break for a moment at least

[DoubleStop]

Hey.. Silly question to distract from all this spy vs. spy and DAW masculinity warfare.. I can't figure out how in the Heck to make that teeny tiny DSP meter in Reason any bigger! Is it possible? The way it is now, it looks like it has 3 speeds! Low, medium and high!

[Exowildebeest]

Hey.. Silly question to distract from all this spy vs. spy and DAW masculinity warfare.. I can't figure out how in the Heck to make that teeny tiny DSP meter in Reason any bigger! Is it possible? The way it is now, it looks like it has 3 speeds! Low, medium and high!

That's just the way it is. I agree, it isn't very informative.