Using a compressor to sidechain in insert fx

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Voyager
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26 Apr 2017

Hello guys,

In the video below it show how to use a compressor to sidechain for the send effects but i was wondering how can i do the same but for insert fx ? I tryed various routings but not sure i got it right. If someone could explain me how to do it would be appreciated. Thanks guys.


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Loque
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26 Apr 2017

Add the compressor as insert. Connect any parallel audio out to the side chain input. Most compressors require to switch to manual mode.
If the parallel is already in use, split it with a spider.
If you want multiple sources for side chain, you can ise a bus or connect the to a mixer and route the mixer output to the side chain input.
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Voyager
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26 Apr 2017

Loque wrote:Add the compressor as insert. Connect any parallel audio out to the side chain input. Most compressors require to switch to manual mode.
If the parallel is already in use, split it with a spider.
If you want multiple sources for side chain, you can ise a bus or connect the to a mixer and route the mixer output to the side chain input.
And what do i do with the compressor output ?

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Loque
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26 Apr 2017

Voyager wrote:
Loque wrote:Add the compressor as insert. Connect any parallel audio out to the side chain input. Most compressors require to switch to manual mode.
If the parallel is already in use, split it with a spider.
If you want multiple sources for side chain, you can ise a bus or connect the to a mixer and route the mixer output to the side chain input.
And what do i do with the compressor output ?
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Voyager
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26 Apr 2017

Thanks for the picture but actually it's not exactly what i'm trying to do. What i want is for example sidechain a rv7000 and a echo as insert fx. Possible ?

Image

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Loque
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26 Apr 2017

Voyager wrote:Thanks for the picture but actually it's not exactly what i'm trying to do. What i want is for example sidechain a rv7000 and a echo as insert fx. Possible ?

Image
Muahhhhaa....What exactly do you want to do? Sidechain only the indvidual FX without the dry signal? Is the reverb connected to The Echo? What exactly is your routing or what do you want to do?

To make a guess, you just want to sidechain the FX indivudally. This can be done, also within one insert, but you should keep in mind, that you use dry/wet on the FX you introduce phasing, so i recommend to use wet only. In this case i would use a mixer...wait, i gonna post a ptach.
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Voyager
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26 Apr 2017

What i want to do is for example connect a redrum channel to the mixer with a hihat for example, and then having the rv7000 and the echo sidechained to the hihat so the wet doesn't mess too much with the dry signal. In send it make sense since the dry signal is intact but as insert don't know if it could work since the dry signal is usually altered.

I'll check your patch thanks

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Loque
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26 Apr 2017

Ahhh, you just want lower the fx while the dry is playing. In this case you should split the redrum before it goes to the mixer. Route one into the patch's sidechain mixer, and the other to your normal mixer input. I modified the patch, that you just need to drag it below your redrum or drag it into the mixer insert.
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fx sidechains.zip
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scratchnsnifff
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26 Apr 2017

One way of faking a sidechain is to use the amp env on a synth or use a free env to the dry wet if a reverb or something :) random but this post made me think of that
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RandomSkratch
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26 Apr 2017

Voyager wrote:Thanks for the picture but actually it's not exactly what i'm trying to do. What i want is for example sidechain a rv7000 and a echo as insert fx. Possible ?

Image
Throw in a spider splitter and line mixer and sidechain the master output of that before feeding back into the insert?

Errr I just wired it up how I think it would work but then Reason crashed before I could test and take a screenshot... have to try later if it's still unanswered.

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Oquasec
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26 Apr 2017

I rarely sidechain because you could just lfo that without having compression on anything.
You can make a gater out of thor and the modmatrix to bypass sidechain's compression.
What you route in reason goes directly [hence the cables] into whatever you hooked up to whatnot lol
You can even use direct wires to bypass that shit even when a compressor is being used as de sidechain souururureocecpececece
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RandomSkratch
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26 Apr 2017

I think this is what you're looking for. (I didn't check your patch Loque so apologies if this is duplicate!)

Insert to Splitter In
First split back to Merge 1
Second split to Echo In
Third split to RV In
Fourth split to Compressor Sidechain In

Echo Out to Line Mixer 1
RV Out to Line Mixer 2

Line Mixer Out to Compressor In
Compressor Out to Merge 2

Total Merge to Insert From

Adjust compressor threshold to pickup the source sound and set your attack/release as you see fit.
Adjust the level of Echo and RV from the line mixer - keep the master line mixer at default.
insert-front.PNG
insert-front.PNG (600.57 KiB) Viewed 2880 times
insert-back.PNG
insert-back.PNG (696.51 KiB) Viewed 2880 times

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Loque
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27 Apr 2017

RandomSkratch wrote:I think this is what you're looking for. (I didn't check your patch Loque so apologies if this is duplicate!)

Insert to Splitter In
First split back to Merge 1
Second split to Echo In
Third split to RV In
Fourth split to Compressor Sidechain In

Echo Out to Line Mixer 1
RV Out to Line Mixer 2

Line Mixer Out to Compressor In
Compressor Out to Merge 2

Total Merge to Insert From

Adjust compressor threshold to pickup the source sound and set your attack/release as you see fit.
Adjust the level of Echo and RV from the line mixer - keep the master line mixer at default.

insert-front.PNG

insert-back.PNG
Its close, but requires only one compressor that will have a better performance. My patch is more flexible.

Another way is gating instead of compression, depends on the needs...
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Oquasec
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27 Apr 2017

I wonder how they came up with these trinkets.
Seems to be a lotta theory for just that one patch.

I'd read a props article explaining why everything does what it does, I really would read a huge pdf/article on why props devices work like that
Yo props if you haven't already, make a huge article bout why your plugs can do what they do for the dudes interested in it.
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Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Voyager
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27 Apr 2017

Thanks guys for sharing your though and ideas.

Actually i have made a such patch a couple month before that i attach below so you can download it. I got the main routing idea from a video from reason expert were he was explaining the difference between send and insert effects but in the process i modified it in my on way and needs. I think the patch work pretty well and give a totall control over the dry and wet signals but since i'm not expert at patching i wasn't sure everything was correctly done. To me it seems everything is working right without any artefact effect but if you see something that can be improved please feel free to share your suggestions.

So the idea behind this patch is that i wanted to be able to use effects in a similar way as send or insert but also to have a total control over them. So with the mixer i can blend the dry and also blend multiple wet effects and mute/solo them or even eq them independently. In fact any devices can be added. Note that as Loque says in a message the effects have to be set always at 100% wet otherwise the dry signal is going to have phase issues. So the blending of the effects are made by the mixer knob only.

* Forgot to mention that all fx devices are possible to sidechain with the dry signal which was one of the patch purpose as well.

Thats it, waiting for your though :thumbs_up:
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Insert FX Patch.rar
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Last edited by Voyager on 27 Apr 2017, edited 2 times in total.

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Loque
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27 Apr 2017

Voyager wrote:Thanks guys for sharing your though and ideas.

Actually i have made a such patch a couple month before that i attach below so you can download it. I got the main routing idea from a video from reason expert were he was explaining the difference between send and insert effects but in the process i modified it in my on way and needs. I think the patch work pretty well and give a totall control over the dry and wet signals but since i'm not expert at patching i wasn't sure everything was correctly done. To me it seems everything is working right without any artefact effect but if you see something that can be improved please feel free to share your suggestions.

So the idea behind this patch is that i wanted to be able to use effects in a similar way as send or insert but also to have a total control over them. So with the mixer i can blend the dry and also blend multiple wet effects and mute/solo them or even eq them independently. In fact any devices can be added. Note that as Loque says in a message the effects have to be set always at 100% wet otherwise the dry signal is going to have phase issues. So the blending of the effects are made by the mixer knob only.

Thats it, waiting for your though :thumbs_up:
I am not on my desk atm, but i guess you have used the send out on a mixer and routed the fx outs to the mixer itself. This is a great way to control parallel injections AND also to use feedback loops (be careful if you do that!).
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Voyager
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27 Apr 2017

Loque wrote:I am not on my desk atm, but i guess you have used the send out on a mixer and routed the fx outs to the mixer itself. This is a great way to control parallel injections AND also to use feedback loops (be careful if you do that!).
Nope, i'm using the insert fx input and output and the parallel out from the mix channel. Also the audio splitter allow to add many fx devices as you want.

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Loque
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27 Apr 2017

Voyager wrote:
Loque wrote:I am not on my desk atm, but i guess you have used the send out on a mixer and routed the fx outs to the mixer itself. This is a great way to control parallel injections AND also to use feedback loops (be careful if you do that!).
Nope, i'm using the insert fx input and output and the parallel out from the mix channel. Also the audio splitter allow to add many fx devices as you want.
So there are thousand ways to route things in Reason with probably different results. <3 Reason!
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Voyager
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27 Apr 2017

Loque wrote:
Voyager wrote:
Loque wrote:I am not on my desk atm, but i guess you have used the send out on a mixer and routed the fx outs to the mixer itself. This is a great way to control parallel injections AND also to use feedback loops (be careful if you do that!).
Nope, i'm using the insert fx input and output and the parallel out from the mix channel. Also the audio splitter allow to add many fx devices as you want.
So there are thousand ways to route things in Reason with probably different results. <3 Reason!
Yea that's the cool thing with reason, is such versatile that everyone can work with his own convinient way :puf_smile:

RandomSkratch
Posts: 447
Joined: 10 May 2016

27 Apr 2017

Loque wrote:Its close, but requires only one compressor that will have a better performance. My patch is more flexible.

Another way is gating instead of compression, depends on the needs...
I checked your combi (fx sidechains) and you have 2 mixers and 2 compressors. Mine had 1 mixer and 1 compressor... Did I not download your right patch?

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Loque
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27 Apr 2017

RandomSkratch wrote:
Loque wrote:Its close, but requires only one compressor that will have a better performance. My patch is more flexible.

Another way is gating instead of compression, depends on the needs...
I checked your combi (fx sidechains) and you have 2 mixers and 2 compressors. Mine had 1 mixer and 1 compressor... Did I not download your right patch?
You downloaded the right one. I have a mixer for the FX and a mixer for mixing the sidechain input. This allows to easily attach more fx and control them with the send button. As i already mention, you can route the FX back to the mixer channel instead of the send input, that allows feedback loops when you enable the send fx on the fx channel.

The sidechain mixing i often use, to increase or lower a sidechain signals individually. Sometimes i use the 14:4 mixer and it's EQ too boost lows in a quick way, that gives more sidechain on bass or highs for example.
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Oquasec
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27 Apr 2017

Id put a redrum for global sidechain on the master channel for no reason.
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Voyager
Posts: 535
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27 Apr 2017

In my insert fx setup i post above there is the HP filter activated by mistake from a previous manipulation it seems.. So if you end up trying to use this setup don't forget to desactivate the HP filter.

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