SSL Master Bus Compressor

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Voyager
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15 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018
No problem - even without any language barrier, this stuff isn’t always the easiest subject to try to put into words.

I’ve found it’s much easier to explain these concepts if you’re sitting with the other person and can give examples and go back and forth with the questions and answers much quicker. That way any misunderstandings are found more quickly, and don’t have a chance to confuse the issue!
:)
Indeed, but i either won't complain by having internet and access to all those great informations provided by generous people. That's why if used reasonably internet can be a wonderful tool. Of course i wish i could debate all those subject with someone next to next but unfortunately where i live i don't know anyone involved into music production, mixing or mastering in general so internet is a fantastic alternative.

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Marco Raaphorst
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15 Jan 2018

I never ever understood why people not want their mix to sound as good as it can!

strangers
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15 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018
strangers wrote:Interesting to see the imager being used in a different manner. I'm not sure if I've been doing the exact same thing but I filter the low end a little bit differently.

I'll drop in the GQ7, connect the control room out to the EQ's input and route the output to the SSL bus comp side chain input. I don't use the control room out for anything so saw it as an opportunity to make this a really simple task. GQ7 gives me plenty of flexibility.
No, you’re not doing the same thing at all. You’re feeding the output of the compressor back into it’s side-chain input, with a 64 sample delay. This is exactly the routing we are avoiding by doing the above.


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I figured I didn't fully know what I was doing :lol: but no better way to learn than to post amongst people like yourself and the rest of the forum that have plenty of experience and knowledge under their belt. I'm going to try out the above routing and see if my ears can pick up on the differences.

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Voyager
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15 Jan 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Jan 2018

I never ever understood why people not want their mix to sound as good as it can!


Hello Marco, did you post in the wrong thread ?

Or perhaps you mean that people with not lot of experience should stop messing with things they don't know what they're doing and should better give their project to qualified sound engineers to get the best of the track ? Please feel free to develop your thoughts.
strangers wrote:
15 Jan 2018
I figured I didn't fully know what I was doing :lol: but no better way to learn than to post amongst people like yourself and the rest of the forum that have plenty of experience and knowledge under their belt. I'm going to try out the above routing and see if my ears can pick up on the differences.
Hey strangers, we are indeed lucky that here in Reason talk we are surrounded with lot of people with good advises and informations. I'm interesting to know what you found out with the new routing, waiting your feedback.
Last edited by Voyager on 15 Jan 2018, edited 1 time in total.

FrankJaeger
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15 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
07 Dec 2016
Voyager wrote:
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


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I do what you do.

I learned somewhere else to use the control room out signal and run it through a HPF (I use the Distort Chain RE) before plugging it into the sidechain of the Master Bus Compressor. I then shoot for a 2-3db overall gain reduction to just sort of level off the mix before any mastering is done.

I produce trap style beats where the 808 or bass and kick drives the sound and those will usually cause the Master Bus Compressor to slam the mids and highs until there is very little dynamic range left and the sound is squashed to nothingness.
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selig
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22 Jan 2018

FrankJaeger wrote:
selig wrote:
07 Dec 2016

I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


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I do what you do.

I learned somewhere else to use the control room out…
Well, not exactly what I do. I don’t use the control room output to feed back into the master compressor, mainly because of the batch delay when you feed a signal in any way back into itself.


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FrankJaeger
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25 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
22 Jan 2018
FrankJaeger wrote: I do what you do.

I learned somewhere else to use the control room out…
Well, not exactly what I do. I don’t use the control room output to feed back into the master compressor, mainly because of the batch delay when you feed a signal in any way back into itself.


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Then how do you get a duplicate signal to sidechain with?
You seem to be one of the audio geniuses around here so I'd love to hear how you accomplish this task.
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Voyager
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07 Feb 2018

selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)


Now i'm thinking of it, shouldn't an RMS compressor be more suited for this particular task than a Peak compressor ? I didn't try yet but did you tried to use an RMS compressor ? If yes what are your thoughts compared to a Peak one ?

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selig
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11 Feb 2018

FrankJaeger wrote:
selig wrote:
22 Jan 2018
Well, not exactly what I do. I don’t use the control room output to feed back into the master compressor, mainly because of the batch delay when you feed a signal in any way back into itself.


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Then how do you get a duplicate signal to sidechain with?
You seem to be one of the audio geniuses around here so I'd love to hear how you accomplish this task.
I’ve posted about this subject so many times, but still can’t find any of them or I’d simply link to that post!

I split the signal BEFORE the compressor, the “dry” signal. When you take the output of the compressors it’s the “wet” signal, and already compressed (and 64 samples behind the input to the compressor).

I do this by setting the Master Insert to be “pre compressor” and doing the splitting and filtering there using only a Stereo Imager (handles the splitting and the filtering!).


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selig
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11 Feb 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:I never ever understood why people not want their mix to sound as good as it can!
I don’t know anyone who seriously wants that! But this assumes we agree that what’s “good” to you isn’t necessarily what’s “good” to anyone else.

Plus, there are always constraints on a project, there is never “infinite” time to perfect things to sound “as good as it can”.

This famous quote comes to mind here: Art is never finished, it is simply abandoned. ;)


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selig
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11 Feb 2018

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)


Now i'm thinking of it, shouldn't an RMS compressor be more suited for this particular task than a Peak compressor ? I didn't try yet but did you tried to use an RMS compressor ? If yes what are your thoughts compared to a Peak one ?
Sorry I missed this earlier!

An RMS compressor is a compressor that uses the RMS (average) level to control compression. An average level signal is basically derived from the peak level signal by filtering (averaging) values over time.

Take a VU meter (another type of averaging), which slows the attack and release down to around 300ms. This results in a meter that displays levels more as we hear them. But when used to drive a compressor, it’s going to be basically the same thing as slowing down the attack/release times. In other words, using RMS mode or a compressor with only RMS sensing will be similar to using slower attack/release times.

Also, even with 0 ms attack/release on an RMS compressor, the actual attack and release times will be much slower. This is because the signal used for the detector (the RMS signal) is already “pre-processed” before it gets to the envelope follower/peak detector.

All that to say I typically use the SSL Master Compressor with the slowest attack time and fastest release time (neither being that extreme) to give a more “average” take on the processing. This was how my mentor at the time (Chuck Ainlay) used the compressor, and TBH I just copied what he did and loved the results!


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mbfrancis
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12 Feb 2018

I am grateful this thread was revived because I've now finally figured out Selig's method of routing a filtered signal into the SSL BusComp SC. Before I was using the control room outs but I knew I was feeding it already compressed signal, delayed.

So it's:

1) Put Insert before BusComp
2) Use Stereo imager to split signal, send solo'd hi band out the back to the BusCom SC inouts.
3) Insert any final Limiter not in insert but right before final Audio outs.

Easy.
Producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist. I make indie pop as Port Streets, 90s/shoegaze as Swooner, and Electro as Yours Mine.

cacibi
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12 Feb 2018

mbfrancis wrote:
12 Feb 2018
I am grateful this thread was revived because I've now finally figured out Selig's method of routing a filtered signal into the SSL BusComp SC. Before I was using the control room outs but I knew I was feeding it already compressed signal, delayed.

So it's:

1) Put Insert before BusComp
2) Use Stereo imager to split signal, send solo'd hi band out the back to the BusCom SC inouts.
3) Insert any final Limiter not in insert but right before final Audio outs.

Easy.
I was messing around with this today. I set up a chain where I could split the pre-compressor Insert Send out to a filter, send the filtered signal to the Sidechain in on the SSL BusComp, but also send it to aDCAM BusComp (I know the DCAM has a built in filter but wanted to mess around with both HP and LP filter options). I have it set up so I can A/B between the SSL BusComp compressor using the pre-SSL insert as the sidechain feed, and the DCAM as post Master Bus compressor using either the pre-fx side chain feed or built-in filter and then switch back and forth to see what I like best.

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selig
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12 Feb 2018

mbfrancis wrote:I am grateful this thread was revived because I've now finally figured out Selig's method of routing a filtered signal into the SSL BusComp SC. Before I was using the control room outs but I knew I was feeding it already compressed signal, delayed.

So it's:

1) Put Insert before BusComp
2) Use Stereo imager to split signal, send solo'd hi band out the back to the BusCom SC inouts.
3) Insert any final Limiter not in insert but right before final Audio outs.

Easy.
It’s even easier when you use the Separate Out on the Stereo Imager set to “High Band”, rather than soloing the high band on the front. This is because you can then use the main Audio Out to feed any additional insert FX, as it then becomes a simple "pass through" or "mult" of the input signal.

Note that if there are no other insert FX, you can leave out the “From Devices” cables entirely, further simplifying the setup!
Screen Shot 2018-02-12 at 5.34.10 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-12 at 5.34.10 PM.png (281.47 KiB) Viewed 3463 times
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mbfrancis
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12 Feb 2018

selig wrote:
12 Feb 2018
mbfrancis wrote:I am grateful this thread was revived because I've now finally figured out Selig's method of routing a filtered signal into the SSL BusComp SC. Before I was using the control room outs but I knew I was feeding it already compressed signal, delayed.

So it's:

1) Put Insert before BusComp
2) Use Stereo imager to split signal, send solo'd hi band out the back to the BusCom SC inouts.
3) Insert any final Limiter not in insert but right before final Audio outs.

Easy.
It’s even easier when you use the Separate Out on the Stereo Imager set to “High Band”, rather than soloing the high band on the front. This is because you can then use the main Audio Out to feed any additional insert FX, as it then becomes a simple "pass through" or "mult" of the input signal.

Note that if there are no other insert FX, you can leave out the “From Devices” cables entirely, further simplifying the setup!

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Yeah that's what I meant, run the hi band out the back. But I didn't realize you didn't need to complete the circuit so to speak. Cool, fewer cables. Thanks!
Producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist. I make indie pop as Port Streets, 90s/shoegaze as Swooner, and Electro as Yours Mine.

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theshoemaker
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13 Feb 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Jan 2018
I never ever understood why people not want their mix to sound as good as it can!
Because it's hard work they may not understand, as it is an engineering approach and the tools they have to use might not appeal to them.
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Voyager
Posts: 535
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13 Feb 2018

selig wrote:
11 Feb 2018

Sorry I missed this earlier!

An RMS compressor is a compressor that uses the RMS (average) level to control compression. An average level signal is basically derived from the peak level signal by filtering (averaging) values over time.

Take a VU meter (another type of averaging), which slows the attack and release down to around 300ms. This results in a meter that displays levels more as we hear them. But when used to drive a compressor, it’s going to be basically the same thing as slowing down the attack/release times. In other words, using RMS mode or a compressor with only RMS sensing will be similar to using slower attack/release times.

Also, even with 0 ms attack/release on an RMS compressor, the actual attack and release times will be much slower. This is because the signal used for the detector (the RMS signal) is already “pre-processed” before it gets to the envelope follower/peak detector.

All that to say I typically use the SSL Master Compressor with the slowest attack time and fastest release time (neither being that extreme) to give a more “average” take on the processing. This was how my mentor at the time (Chuck Ainlay) used the compressor, and TBH I just copied what he did and loved the results!


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Make more sense now why compressor such as the recently released Synapse RE-160 haven't any attack and release knobs. Those a pre-set as you said. Since it's possible to emulate an rms compressor with a peak one, i'm wondering why then rms compressors exists and what would motive someone to get one ?

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