SSL Master Bus Compressor

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Voyager
Posts: 535
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07 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


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Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.

There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
:)


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Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?

Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.
:)


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NIce, i like the line mixer one but to enable/disable it we must plug/unplug the cables from the line mixer output to insert input device, right ?

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selig
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Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

07 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.

There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?

Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NIce, i like the line mixer one but to enable/disable it we must plug unplug the cable from the insert input device, right ?
Use the insert programmer to use a single button to toggle one channel on and another off - you can create a simple switcher this way. I also use it to switch between two compressors etc. for instant A/B comparisons. It's basically a Combinator in each insert, including the master insert.
:)


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Selig Audio, LLC

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Voyager
Posts: 535
Joined: 21 Dec 2015

08 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.

There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?

Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NIce, i like the line mixer one but to enable/disable it we must plug unplug the cable from the insert input device, right ?
Use the insert programmer to use a single button to toggle one channel on and another off - you can create a simple switcher this way. I also use it to switch between two compressors etc. for instant A/B comparisons. It's basically a Combinator in each insert, including the master insert.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I tried many routings with the line mixer, but can't figure how to switch from the sidechain signal to the normal one without mute everything. What i did is create a line mixer rout the "separate out" to mixer canal 1 and mixer main output to insert return "from device".

The thing is that the line mixer hasn't any bypass, i can only mute but in this case i mute all the song and can't switch from the sidechain signal audio to the normal signal. :redface:

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

08 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.

There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?

Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NIce, i like the line mixer one but to enable/disable it we must plug unplug the cable from the insert input device, right ?
Use the insert programmer to use a single button to toggle one channel on and another off - you can create a simple switcher this way. I also use it to switch between two compressors etc. for instant A/B comparisons. It's basically a Combinator in each insert, including the master insert.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I tried many routings with the line mixer, but can't figure how to switch from the sidechain signal to the normal one without mute everything. What i did is create a line mixer rout the "separate out" to mixer canal 1 and mixer main output to insert return "from device".

The thing is that the line mixer hasn't any bypass, i can only mute but in this case i mute all the song and can't switch from the sidechain signal audio to the normal signal. :redface:
Side chain in channel 1, normal in channel 2 (or the other way around). Mute side chain to hear normal signal. Mute normal signal and unmute side chain to hear side chain. Use button 1 in the programmer to mute one and unmute the other (reverse min/max on one). One button does two things at once, creating a simple switch! This works for the way I've got things set up, but would have to see your setup to know exactly how it should be wired to work for you.
:)


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Selig Audio, LLC

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Voyager
Posts: 535
Joined: 21 Dec 2015

08 Dec 2016

selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:[quote="selig"]then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.

There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?

Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NIce, i like the line mixer one but to enable/disable it we must plug unplug the cable from the insert input device, right ?
Use the insert programmer to use a single button to toggle one channel on and another off - you can create a simple switcher this way. I also use it to switch between two compressors etc. for instant A/B comparisons. It's basically a Combinator in each insert, including the master insert.
:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I tried many routings with the line mixer, but can't figure how to switch from the sidechain signal to the normal one without mute everything. What i did is create a line mixer rout the "separate out" to mixer canal 1 and mixer main output to insert return "from device".

The thing is that the line mixer hasn't any bypass, i can only mute but in this case i mute all the song and can't switch from the sidechain signal audio to the normal signal. :redface:
Side chain in channel 1, normal in channel 2 (or the other way around). Mute side chain to hear normal signal. Mute normal signal and unmute side chain to hear side chain. Use button 1 in the programmer to mute one and unmute the other (reverse min/max on one). One button does two things at once, creating a simple switch! This works for the way I've got things set up, but would have to see your setup to know exactly how it should be wired to work for you.
:)


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I know this is obvious for you :D but i don't know to what devices input or ouput you are refering when saying Side chain in channel 1, normal in channel 2 :oops:

Here is what i did

Image

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selig
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08 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
I know this is obvious for you :D but i don't know to what devices input or ouput you are refering when saying Side chain in channel 1, normal in channel 2 :oops:

Here is what i did

Image
Sorry, I assumed we were talking about the line mixer, and I was explaining only how to make it into a switch (a generic concept that could be applied to any situation). I was also trying to be clear that I couldn't know how to set it up for your specific situation without seeing it first.

Now that I've seen it, you're ALMOST doing what I'm doing with my setup, so as it turns out you won't even need the line mixer!
Here's what you need to do differently to add this function. Patch the Separate Out to the KEY input (side chain) of the Master Compressor. Set the switch next to the Separate Out to "HI BAND". This much is your side chain filter setup.

NEXT, take the main Audio Output and patch it to the "From Devices". On the front panel of the Stereo Imager, set the "Solo" button to NORMAL. This will pass the input through to the output unchanged. NOW, if you want to hear the high pass filtered signal, simply use the SOLO HI BAND button. This will send the SAME High Pass filtered signal on to your mix outputs, allowing you to hear exactly what's going to the side chain (key) input. Make sense?

If you're adventurous, you can assign the solo button to the front panel of the insert using the programmer, and label it S/C Listen.
Here's what it looks like:
Image
Image
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Voyager
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08 Dec 2016

selig wrote:Make sense?
Absolutely, as i said don't get it wrong because since routing and hardware is kind of a weak point of mine it's me that seems to make things confusing :puf_smile:

Also thank you for taking your time to answering all that stuff, appreciate :thumbs_up:

After searching on google about the bus compression sidechain filtering i notice that it's seems usually used with a High Pass filter but here with the stereo imager it doesn't really act like as a High Pass filter because when we solo the Hi band we can notice on the spectrum that even with the crossover set very high the lows aren't totally cut but tend to align is the same loudness with the mids and highs.

Don't get me wrong, personally i prefer this Hi band type which gives more control and balance in my opinion instead of a High Pass that will cut through some lows totally.

What are you though about the Hi pass vs the Hi band for sidechaining ?
Last edited by Voyager on 08 Dec 2016, edited 1 time in total.

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

08 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:Make sense?
Absolutely, as i said don't get it wrong because since routing and hardware is kind of a weak point of mine it's me that seems to make things confusing :puf_smile:

Also thank you for taking your time to answering all that stuff, appreciate :thumbs_up:

After searching on google about the bus compression sidechain filtering i notice that it's seems usually used with a High Pass filter but here with the stereo imager it doesn't really act like as a High Pass filter because when we solo the Hi band we can notice on the spectrum that even with the crossover set very high the lows aren't totally cut but tend to align is the same loudness with the mids and highs.

Don't get me wrong, personally i prefer this Hi band type which gives more control and balance in my opinion instead of a High Pass that will cut through some lows totally.

What are you though about the Hi pass vs the Hi band for sidechaining ?
Stereo imager IS a high pass filter. It has a slope of 12 dB/Oct. The idea with a filter isn't to "erase" the other frequencies when using filters. The name "filter" does imply it lets some frequencies through and keeps others out, but that's not how they actually work. The concept of the "slope" implies there is a transition. Just like with an audio crossfade, which smoothes a transition (edit), a filter's slope helps to create a smooth transition. If you use a super steep slope, you not only introduce more phase shift around the cutoff, but you also make an abrupt cut in the otherwise smooth frequency spectrum. This can make an interesting effect, but also can sound un-natural (obviously, sometimes that's exactly what you want).

Besides all of these issues, I sometimes thing a more subtle low shelf EQ would sometimes work better for this job than a filter. After all, the idea is to LOWER the frequencies you want to control, not to eliminate them! By using an EQ, you could lower the frequencies in question by a set amount in dB, rather than a slope as a filter does. But I find the gentle 12 dB/Oct slope of the Stereo Imager to be perfect for this job in my experience.

BTW, here's the response of the high pass filter in the stereo imager:
Image
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Voyager
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08 Dec 2016

Good to know thanks, actually i did try the stereo imager filter vs the hipass Eq from the mixer and indeed as you shown is that the stereo imager curve filter is more extended and perhaps allow a smoother filtering. For example with the Hipass eq mixer i can't bring equally the lows at the same level as the mids and highs as i do with the stereo imager.

Side note, the EQ idea instead of the stereo imager could be indeed a nice alternative, but since it doens't have a "separate out" we could use a splitter to patch the sidechain or ?

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selig
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08 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:Good to know thanks, actually i did try the stereo imager filter vs the hipass Eq from the mixer and indeed as you shown is that the stereo imager curve filter is more extended and perhaps allow a smoother filtering. For example with the Hipass eq mixer i can't bring equally the lows at the same level as the mids and highs as i do with the stereo imager.

Side note, the EQ idea instead of the stereo imager could be indeed a nice alternative, but since it doens't have a "separate out" we could use a splitter to patch the sidechain or ?
Here's the SSL HP vs the Stereo Imager HP - SSL is steeper slope, that's all.
SSL = green, Stereo Imager = yellow:
Image

Yes, it's a little more complicated (you will need TWO splitters), but here's what it looks like. You will need to do the Line Mixer mute trick in the programmer that I described earlier (check out the picture for settings).
And don't forget that in either case you need to have the "INSERTS PRE COMPRESSOR" button ON for this to work correctly…
Image
Image
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Voyager
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08 Dec 2016

Once again great informations and thank you for uploading those screenshots selig :thumbs_up:

Actually i wrote a message in another topic that cover the same subject so instead of boucing from one topic to another i'll quote the last message i leave there to continuing the discussion here.
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
Voyager wrote:Selig,

So with the way you set the master compressor sidechain this means you can't add any mastering devices in the master section insert anymore since you set it as pre compressor right ? I guess the master devices you want to add are between the master out and the audio interface like your Ozone, i am right or i misunderstand the whole concept ? :redface:
Yes, Ozone (because I use it for dither) MUST come last, and after the master fader, if used. The place for it is between the Master Outputs and the Hardware Interface. If you think about it, this is where mastering "should" take place if you send your mix to a mastering engineer - after the final output of the mixer.

Ultimately I would want a "mastering" section here, similar to an insert, where you can put all your mastering devices - but that's another subject entirely…
;)


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So if i understand correctly, while you are mixing or mastering, in the master section insert you always have only the stereo imager for the sidechain compression, nothing else right ?

And where do you put your mastering devices then ? still in the master section insert or outside in the rack ?
I put them to the left of the master section, to keep them visually separate. This typically only includes a Selig Gain followed by Ozone (bypassed until the end of the mix). Selig Gain is there so I can have my "pre master" peaks hit around -6 to -3 dBFS, just in case I send the track off to a proper mastering engineer!
:)


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I knew we could place things on the right side of the rack but not the left, nice :puf_smile:

So you use the selig gain digital peak meter to get a more precise dB reading instead having to use the master big meter right ?

About the master compressor sidechain set in "pre" i notice that when i switch from "pre" to "post" i don't see any difference in the compressor, it's still use the sidechain filtering signal to compress, any reason to that ?

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Bloma
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08 Dec 2016

Holy shit, I finally understand it now, thanks Selig and Voyager. The stereo imager just reduces the ammount of bass that is fed into the compressor, not completely cutting it out.

mark999
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17 Jul 2017

I think it's also important to note what genre of music you are producing. If you make dance music, then compressing everything like crazy seems to be the norm, and if you don't do it, then your track won't be as punchy as most others out there. (I'm not saying that over-compressing is good, I'm just saying that everyone in the dance world does it) Do you guys remember the track "Call on Me" by Eric Prydz? That song was over-compressed like crazy, and yet it was an international hit and got heaps of radio airplay, and the radio broadcast added yet another layer of compression on top of the song so the end result was one giant pumping sound. If you are making similar sounding dance songs then I think you need to compress like crazy. Of course you need to have a good mix to start with, but in some genres compression and over-compresion is actually part of the final sound.

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Voyager
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14 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
07 Dec 2016

Voyager wrote:

Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?

I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Selig, about the side chain filtering compressor, if i don't use the ssl master bus compressor but instead another compressor i still must put the stereo imager before my compressor and side chain it with my compressor right ? I did try and work as expected but can you confirm is the same routing as using the master bus compressor ?

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

14 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
07 Dec 2016


I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.


Selig, about the side chain filtering compressor, if i don't use the ssl master bus compressor but instead another compressor i still must put the stereo imager before my compressor and side chain it with my compressor right ? I did try and work as expected but can you confirm is the same routing as using the master bus compressor ?
OK, to be clear there are two paths in effect. The main signal path that feeds the main input of the compressor, and the filtered (or EQ’ed) signal path that feeds the side chain input of the compressor.

The issue to deal with is where the signal comes from that you are filtering! Some folks were taking the output of the compressor, filtering it, and feeding back into the side-chain input of the same compressor. While this SHOULD work in theory, in reality, there is a 64 sample delay when doing this in Reason. This means it’s not reacting as one would expect in such a “feed back” compression setup.

So in Reason IMO it’s better to use a “feed forward” approach, taking the signal that’s going into the compressor and splitting it. Send on split to the main input, and one to the side chain input via a filter or EQ.

The result, if removing low frequency energy from the side chain input, is to cause the compression to be less reactive to low frequencies. This can be helpful if low frequency energy is causing too much compression compared to the rest of the spectrum. The goal in most cases is to try to balance the reaction of the compressor so it’s acting more equally on all frequencies (in as much as this is possible).



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Voyager
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14 Jan 2018

This is the initial routing i made using the stereo imager before the compressor ( as you use the pre-insert with the compressor master bus ), so is this incorrect to get the same result as your side chain filtering master bus compressor ?

Image

As for your explanations, without doubts you're very clear, but it's just my technical side which has some limits plus trying understand things in your non native language make things more complicated, and oh it's 3.am..so my mind just totally freezed :lol: :oops:
selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018
So in Reason IMO it’s better to use a “feed forward” approach, taking the signal that’s going into the compressor and splitting it. Send on split to the main input, and one to the side chain input via a filter or EQ.
So you mean compressor audio out in a splitter, then instert fx "to device" in splitter and stereo imager separe out to splitter as well ? I'm sure i'm wrong.. :lol: :x

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selig
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14 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:This is the initial routing i made using the stereo imager before the compressor ( as you use the pre-insert with the compressor master bus ), so is this incorrect to get the same result as your side chain filtering master bus compressor ?

Image

As for your explanations, without doubts you're very clear, but it's just my technical side which has some limits plus trying understand things in your non native language make things more complicated, and oh it's 3.am..so my mind just totally freezed :lol: :oops:
selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018
So in Reason IMO it’s better to use a “feed forward” approach, taking the signal that’s going into the compressor and splitting it. Send on split to the main input, and one to the side chain input via a filter or EQ.
So you mean compressor audio out in a splitter, then instert fx "to device" in splitter and stereo imager separe out to splitter as well ? I'm sure i'm wrong.. :lol: :x
Your image is correct, assuming nothing is soloed or mono’ed on the front panel, but your wording is not.

You don’t take the compressor out into a splitter - you take the original signal, before you do ANYTHING else, and split it there.

The reason the image above works is that the stereo imager is working as the splitter, with the main output being unaffected by the imager, and the secondary output being the filtered output.

Again the key is to NOT take the compressor output and split it to send it back into the compressor. The idea is to take the raw audio and send IT to two place: the input of the compressor and the filter/side-chain input.

Hopefully that makes sense.


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Voyager
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14 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018

Your image is correct, assuming nothing is soloed or mono’ed on the front panel, but your wording is not.



Make sense yes, so basically you confirm that with this setup i get the same result as using the side chain filtering with the ssl master bus compressor, right ?

Also what do you mean "my wording is not" ?

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selig
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15 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
14 Jan 2018

Your image is correct, assuming nothing is soloed or mono’ed on the front panel, but your wording is not.



Make sense yes, so basically you confirm that with this setup i get the same result as using the side chain filtering with the ssl master bus compressor, right ?

Also what do you mean "my wording is not" ?
As I said, you don’t take the compressor out into a splitter.

You asked “So you mean compressor out into splitter”, which is not correct. It’s the input, the raw signal before it goes ANYWHERE, that is split, not the output of the compressor.

It’s the splitter out into the compressor, not the compresser out into the splitter.

Hopefully my wording is making sense!



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strangers
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15 Jan 2018

Interesting to see the imager being used in a different manner. I'm not sure if I've been doing the exact same thing but I filter the low end a little bit differently.

I'll drop in the GQ7, connect the control room out to the EQ's input and route the output to the SSL bus comp side chain input. I don't use the control room out for anything so saw it as an opportunity to make this a really simple task. GQ7 gives me plenty of flexibility.

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selig
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15 Jan 2018

strangers wrote:Interesting to see the imager being used in a different manner. I'm not sure if I've been doing the exact same thing but I filter the low end a little bit differently.

I'll drop in the GQ7, connect the control room out to the EQ's input and route the output to the SSL bus comp side chain input. I don't use the control room out for anything so saw it as an opportunity to make this a really simple task. GQ7 gives me plenty of flexibility.
No, you’re not doing the same thing at all. You’re feeding the output of the compressor back into it’s side-chain input, with a 64 sample delay. This is exactly the routing we are avoiding by doing the above.


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15 Jan 2018

selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018

As I said, you don’t take the compressor out into a splitter.

You asked “So you mean compressor out into splitter”, which is not correct. It’s the input, the raw signal before it goes ANYWHERE, that is split, not the output of the compressor.

It’s the splitter out into the compressor, not the compresser out into the splitter.

Hopefully my wording is making sense!

Actually i was asking for the picture if the routing is the exact same thing as you do with your side chain filtering bus compressor, not about the "compressor out into splitter" ;)

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selig
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15 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018

As I said, you don’t take the compressor out into a splitter.

You asked “So you mean compressor out into splitter”, which is not correct. It’s the input, the raw signal before it goes ANYWHERE, that is split, not the output of the compressor.

It’s the splitter out into the compressor, not the compresser out into the splitter.

Hopefully my wording is making sense!

Actually i was asking for the picture if the routing is the exact same thing as you do with your side chain filtering bus compressor, not about the "compressor out into splitter" ;)
Sorry, I heard you ask if your wording was right, as per my comment.

I seem to be getting a little confused here - feel like I’m answering the same (probably wrong) question over and over!

I’ve already answered about the picture - it’s the same. Does your question about the wording still need answering?


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15 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
14 Jan 2018

Also what do you mean "my wording is not" ?



selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018

Sorry, I heard you ask if your wording was right, as per my comment.

I seem to be getting a little confused here - feel like I’m answering the same (probably wrong) question over and over!

I’ve already answered about the picture - it’s the same. Does your question about the wording still need answering?


Oh ok..! i now understand what you meant by "my wording is not". Wording is like a "formulation" from a sentence.. and in this case you meant that i were wrong with the splitter part and not the routing picture.. !

Since i didn't knew and understood what wording was meaning i though it was related to the picture as well and that's why i got confused..

Sorry to make you confused as well, as i said english isn't my native language and sometimes it add a layer of confusion.

Thanks for your patience Selig, appreciated :thumbs_up:

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selig
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15 Jan 2018

Voyager wrote:
Voyager wrote:
14 Jan 2018

Also what do you mean "my wording is not" ?



selig wrote:
15 Jan 2018

Sorry, I heard you ask if your wording was right, as per my comment.

I seem to be getting a little confused here - feel like I’m answering the same (probably wrong) question over and over!

I’ve already answered about the picture - it’s the same. Does your question about the wording still need answering?


Oh ok..! i now understand what you meant by "my wording is not". Wording is like a "formulation" from a sentence.. and in this case you meant that i were wrong with the splitter part and not the routing picture.. !

Since i didn't knew and understood what wording was meaning i though it was related to the picture as well and that's why i got confused..

Sorry to make you confused as well, as i said english isn't my native language and sometimes it add a layer of confusion.

Thanks for your patience Selig, appreciated :thumbs_up:
No problem - even without any language barrier, this stuff isn’t always the easiest subject to try to put into words.

I’ve found it’s much easier to explain these concepts if you’re sitting with the other person and can give examples and go back and forth with the questions and answers much quicker. That way any misunderstandings are found more quickly, and don’t have a chance to confuse the issue!
:)


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