Zooming in R9

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
skie
Posts: 232
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

I cant figure out the best way to zoom in on the sequencer when in Song mode, the + and - magnifier buttons only change the vertical height of each track on the screen - and the new Zoom button doesn't let me dial in the exact zoom amount that I want....also...there are no more buttons to incrementally adjust the tempo up and down? Do you manually have to type it in with your keyboard or use the up down arrows to edit this now? I'm so confused lol.

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 8345
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

Try z or mousewheel with ctrl or ctrl shift. Did you tried shift or ctrl +/-?
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
kuhliloach
Posts: 762
Joined: 09 Dec 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

Reason still doesn't have a proper zoom feature that would allow its too-small UI to be larger. The Z and P hotkeys are great for zooming and playing individual clips. CTRL-SHIFT mousewheel and CTRL-ALT mousewheel have different behaviors worth playing with, as well as SHIFT mousewheel.

For the Rack I've solved the User-Interface-Is-Too-Small problem by detaching it and displaying it on my 3rd monitor which is running at a resolution of 1280 x 800. This makes the devices naturally large which is delicious.

skie
Posts: 232
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

I had just figured out ctrl shift mousewheel, and thank you for the other power user tips :) Definitely going to be using Z a lot, can't believe I didn't know about it. Any tips on tempo changes or do you have to key them in now?

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 8345
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

kuhliloach wrote:Reason still doesn't have a proper zoom feature that would allow its too-small UI to be larger. The Z and P hotkeys are great for zooming and playing individual clips. CTRL-SHIFT mousewheel and CTRL-ALT mousewheel have different behaviors worth playing with, as well as SHIFT mousewheel.

For the Rack I've solved the User-Interface-Is-Too-Small problem by detaching it and displaying it on my 3rd monitor which is running at a resolution of 1280 x 800. This makes the devices naturally large which is delicious.
If you are on Windows 10,try windows and +/- keys.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
kuhliloach
Posts: 762
Joined: 09 Dec 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

Loque wrote:
kuhliloach wrote:Reason still doesn't have a proper zoom feature that would allow its too-small UI to be larger. The Z and P hotkeys are great for zooming and playing individual clips. CTRL-SHIFT mousewheel and CTRL-ALT mousewheel have different behaviors worth playing with, as well as SHIFT mousewheel.

For the Rack I've solved the User-Interface-Is-Too-Small problem by detaching it and displaying it on my 3rd monitor which is running at a resolution of 1280 x 800. This makes the devices naturally large which is delicious.
If you are on Windows 10,try windows and +/- keys.
Thanks! (That works in Win 7. Wish there was a 150% as the jump from 100% to 200% is too drastic).

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 872
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 11 Sep 2016

One of the things I was hoping to see in R9 was modern zoom behavior on OS X. Unfortunately, it's still limited by the assumption of an old-school scroll mouse and is basically unusable on a MacBook trackpad.
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 8959
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 11 Sep 2016

fieldframe wrote:One of the things I was hoping to see in R9 was modern zoom behavior on OS X. Unfortunately, it's still limited by the assumption of an old-school scroll mouse and is basically unusable on a MacBook trackpad.
I'm using a track pad to zoom for years now - what's not working for you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 872
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 11 Sep 2016

selig wrote:
fieldframe wrote:One of the things I was hoping to see in R9 was modern zoom behavior on OS X. Unfortunately, it's still limited by the assumption of an old-school scroll mouse and is basically unusable on a MacBook trackpad.
I'm using a track pad to zoom for years now - what's not working for you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It's two things that work against each other: The central problem is that Reason's scroll-based zoom is based on the speed at which the average PC scroll mouse ticks (that is to say, the scroll wheel moves one detent), maybe 2-3 times per second on average. Apple trackpads don't have the same concept of ticks, since they're built to do smooth scrolling, and so if your software is listening for ticks, you hear way more, maybe on the order of 15-20 per second as the trackpad floods them in. Combine this with Apple's inertial scrolling, and once you've stopped scrolling, the trackpad keeps a sort of "decay envelope" going, resulting in even more scroll ticks.

The result is that just a tiny nudge on the trackpad results in a huge jump in zoom, many times more than you would get with a similar nudge on a PC scroll mouse. Every time I scroll-zoom in Reason it's an accident, and a frustrating one because I now have to manually hunt for my previous zoom level, both vertically and horizontally!

(There's actually a third element at play here with directional isolation but I won't bore anyone with it unless someone's really curious. :) )
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

User avatar
buddard
RE Developer
Posts: 900
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 11 Sep 2016

I use the G and H keys.

skie
Posts: 232
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2016

buddard wrote:I use the G and H keys.
Wooaahh that's a good one too!

Revise
Posts: 48
Joined: 09 Aug 2015

Post 17 Sep 2016

I have to agree, the zooming and sequencing workflow in reason slows me down quite a bit, when compared to Ableton. For a while I really tried to just use Reason, because I LOVE the rack, the sound, the possibilities of Reason. I just finish more songs with Ableton because the sequencer is so fast to use. Not bashing Reason, I love it, I just wish they would improve the sequencer.

HepCat

Post 17 Sep 2016

Reason's sequencer integration has a lot of power *but* the confusing and restrictive zoom + inability to add blocks to the sequencer while the sequencer is playing fazes me a bit.

Dear Props ... the Sequencer zoom is confusing, check out Acid Pro. Copy Acid Pro's sequencer interface, everybody else has. It's as easy as whacking a mole over the head with a spade.

sprinkles__
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 May 2019

Post 13 Jan 2021

fieldframe wrote:
11 Sep 2016
One of the things I was hoping to see in R9 was modern zoom behavior on OS X. Unfortunately, it's still limited by the assumption of an old-school scroll mouse and is basically unusable on a MacBook trackpad.
Just doing a search for this topic, as i see that still the behaviour of mac OS trackpad zoom is totally unusable in R11 having just upgraded. It's been this way since at least version 7. Has anybody come up with an answer? The problem is that the tiniest movement on the trackpad while holding the zoom modifiers will be amplified massively and so you can't just do a small zoom in, it slams right to full zoom. Useless. I can't understand why this behaviour has passed QC in Properllerheads for so long. Do none of them use a Macbook or what?

Oh, and also add to that the bidirectional zoom which doesn't lock, and often i end up getting horizontal zoom just from the tiniest sideways movement of my fingers when i want vertical, or vice versa, or some awful combination of both that is totally horrible to work with and makes the sequencer really tedious to get anything done in.

AnotherMathias
Posts: 27
Joined: 29 Sep 2020

Post 15 Jan 2021

I don't have an answer for you, but I'd like to join in on the complaint.

In my case it's with the Apple Magic Mouse. Same thing - the sensitivity is WAY too high for any scrolling or zooming.
Also the same is that there is no separation for vertical and horizontal movement. It's like trying to race a motorcycle on a hockey rink!

You've got to wonder if the Mac coders on the staff don't use the standard Apple hardware, and can't be bothered test the software with it?
It goes hand in hand with Reason pretty much requiring you to reassign your top row of keys to be F-keys. I'd like to keep using mine for music start/stop, speaker volume, etc, the way all of us normally use a Mac. Some of us use their Reason computer for general computing as well, and it feels a bit intrusive to have to change how all the rest of the stuff on the computer gets done to accommodate Reason's quirks.

I resorted to using an ancient wired Apple Mighty Mouse instead. It's the kind with a tiny track ball on top for scrolling. That works acceptably, but won't be any help for the trackpad users.

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 872
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 15 Jan 2021

I have a feeling we may see this addressed in the hiDPI update. The reason being that the UI rendering layer is being rewritten, and the zooming behavior that’s based on how a circa-2003 Microsoft Intellimouse scroll wheel works was probably written around the original rendering code.
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

User avatar
EdwardKiy
Posts: 430
Joined: 02 Oct 2019

Post 16 Jan 2021

I referred to Reason zooming in sequencer multiple times as to "operating a castle draw bridge". I was basically told to "learn to use it". A year down the line, I got the hang of it and it's quite snappy, but still doesn't hold a candle to Ableton navigation. It remains un-intuitive and I can wager anything that this turned away many potential users. The fact that you're referred to buying apple garbage mouse as a legitimate solution to what is clearly a Reason Studios' ferk irritates me even more. This goes in tandem with their general impotence in not only NOT fixing their sequencer, but not even acknowledging problems that are being shoved in their faces by their customers for as long as 5 years on end.

It's this kind of 'head-in-the-sand' attitude that warrants comfort in shaming them rather than trying to communicate it in a more civil manner. The navigation, track folders, hotkeys, the lack of a full screen mode - all of these have been known problems years ago.

No one has ever popped in and said "hey, we know there's a problem here, don't worry - we got you! We know you've been asking this for 10 years - we actually received your thousands of Feature Request emails that we pretend to ignore, and we were keeping an eye on this here ONLY AND OFFICIAL forum, (that we are too chicken to own up to calling official, because then we'd be responsible for taking on user input). But we'll be able to address this problem only there and then because..."

Their attitude to handling these type of issues in one word - COWARDLY.
Reason initiate

AnotherMathias
Posts: 27
Joined: 29 Sep 2020

Post 16 Jan 2021

Wow, those are some harsh words!

I don't feel quite that strongly about it, but that said, I'm currently in the process of migrating everything to Studio One.
I don't plan to use RRP - I don't like the all-of-reason-in-one-VST model. It feels bulky and cumbersome, and is a bit crashy in my Studio One (although in fairness, seems stable in Logic). I'll miss a lot of the devices.
If Reason 12 solves many of the irritations, I'm sure I'll come back. In a lot of ways it's still my favorite.

I just tried zooming on my MacBook Pro, and the trackpad is just as bad as my Magic Mouse.
For those who don't use these - ONE FLICK of the zoom function takes the zoom level from 1/8th note to 561 BARS!

Again, what mouse/trackpad are the programmers of the Mac version using to find this properly calibrated?
I am optimistic that the interface tweaks that will come (probably in Reason 12) might address this, but on the other hand, this isn't really an GUI issue, it's a matter of scaling the control inputs properly.

Maybe a slider in the preferences for zoom/scroll sensitivity is a good idea? There is already one for mouse knob sensitivity. And maybe stop calling it a scroll WHEEL. Do PC people still use scroll wheels (that only go up/down, but not sideways)?

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], deeplink and 4 guests