Best way to ensure long-term preservation

[ilikestargazing]

Hi there!
So I have this dream of being able to preserve my work for thousands of years. Basically it stems from the thought that I would find it so fascinating to find a thousands of years old box with some artists creations. I wouldn't care if they were a carpenter, a painter, a musician, a writer or something else entirely, or if I could even decipher or use a single object or piece of information. It would simply be super cool and an interesting thing to get to study and share with others, almost certainly completely regardless who had made it, as long as it was well-preserved.

So this is my question. What would be some really good ways of ensuring long-term preservation of a life-times worth of creations?
I figure redundancy is a given; multiple options stores in multiple locations by different individuals for different reasons etc.
Next comes the question of storage type. I'm no expert here, but do know of the many limitations of traditional consumer electronics. I would also like to consider other, non-digital options, like simple photographs or a carbon fiber record, who knows.
Perhaps with the advent of cheaper space travel, I'd be able to send a hundred little satellites towards all reaches of space. Or you could go around the world digging down protected boxes far into the ground wherever you travel.

Basically, any thoughts here would be appreciated! I realise it's a no-guarantee plan under any circumstance, and there are a lot of unknowns. So I just want to get a clearer picture of what direction to move in

[jonheal]

Forget it. Nuclear war (or worse) or big asteroid problems are guaranteed within thousands of years. Heck, we'll be lucky to get out of this decade without nuclear war.

[ilikestargazing]

Thought about that but should be possible to guard against. I guess it's more an issue of the survival of the species
That's why I'd like to try both deep underground storage in a safe-lined material, and, if economically feasible at a later point, a swarm of mini-satellites. It might sound extreme but could potentially fall into the $50,000 or less price range in our life time.

[selig]

Some rules for permanence (if that's even possible) in an impermanent world, in no particular order…

First rule - store medium with it's associated playback device. Store DVDs with a DVD player, hard drives with a computer that can read them, vinyl records with a turntable/preamp etc. Probably best to store some speakers and amps if you really want to be future proof. And make sure to store multiples in case one goes bad.

Second rule - use multiple mediums: optical, physical, magnetic, etc.

Third rule - store multiple copies, at least three of each medium.

Forth rule - store your multiple copies in different physical locations, underground is probably best.

Fifth rule - update all of these REGULARLY, incorporating new mediums and possibly rotating out old (or keeping them just to be sure). These things wear out over time so you want to make sure they are 'fresh' as possible.

There are probably some more rules I've left out, but these are a good start.
Good luck!

[guitfnky]

encode your songs in binary on stone tablets. it's the only way.

[ilikestargazing]

Hey, Selig. Nice ones!
Thought about most of those, too. Definitely a good point with keeping a complete set to use the provided material. For this reason also, I would prefer keeping it as simple as possible, so that if there were to be a device along to play files or a record, it would consist of as few components as possible and include some backup units of components to a degree.

I don't think I'll go with the whole optical or magnetic disk option for basic nuclear reasons. Either physical shock or exposure could easily corrupt data. I've looked into some options for storing data in carbon crystals which is said to be able to consistently keep data for billions of years. But I have no idea of the practical and economical feasibility. I'll want to go as cheap as possible, as I would like to design a universal package to be reproduced in hundreds of units. Realistically I imagine it would cost in the area of $50-100k over a couple of decades and I don't want to "launch" for another decade or two. But I would like to have one "golden master" rather than several different types which would be updated and such. So I am trying to narrow in on an optimum solution and getting a gauge of realistic expectations and options.

So I'm thinking ultimately it would be a small-ish package, no bigger than a picnic basket, preferably no bigger than a fist, that would contain a small abundance of options to play or display whatever's in there. I realise it must seem like a rather pointless endeavour but I do really want to give it a go just for kicks! It may never ever be discovered by anyone, it may only be found once by a child mistaking it for a toy, or it may be found by wild animals or malevolent artists who will rip off ancient beats Point is I don't really care about that, but just want to make sure it has a decent chance and can be done without massive corporate involvement or something like that.

[ilikestargazing]

encode your songs in binary on stone tablets. it's the only way.

I would so rock out to that

[JCBendock]

Ziploc and Tupperware.....it's the only option. Don't forget selfies.

[bxbrkrz]

Hi there!
So I have this dream of being able to preserve my work for thousands of years. Basically it stems from the thought that I would find it so fascinating to find a thousands of years old box with some artists creations. I wouldn't care if they were a carpenter, a painter, a musician, a writer or something else entirely, or if I could even decipher or use a single object or piece of information. It would simply be super cool and an interesting thing to get to study and share with others, almost certainly completely regardless who had made it, as long as it was well-preserved.

So this is my question. What would be some really good ways of ensuring long-term preservation of a life-times worth of creations?
I figure redundancy is a given; multiple options stores in multiple locations by different individuals for different reasons etc.
Next comes the question of storage type. I'm no expert here, but do know of the many limitations of traditional consumer electronics. I would also like to consider other, non-digital options, like simple photographs or a carbon fiber record, who knows.
Perhaps with the advent of cheaper space travel, I'd be able to send a hundred little satellites towards all reaches of space. Or you could go around the world digging down protected boxes far into the ground wherever you travel.

Basically, any thoughts here would be appreciated! I realise it's a no-guarantee plan under any circumstance, and there are a lot of unknowns. So I just want to get a clearer picture of what direction to move in

You are in luck:

[selig]

Hi there!
So I have this dream of being able to preserve my work for thousands of years. Basically it stems from the thought that I would find it so fascinating to find a thousands of years old box with some artists creations. I wouldn't care if they were a carpenter, a painter, a musician, a writer or something else entirely, or if I could even decipher or use a single object or piece of information. It would simply be super cool and an interesting thing to get to study and share with others, almost certainly completely regardless who had made it, as long as it was well-preserved.

So this is my question. What would be some really good ways of ensuring long-term preservation of a life-times worth of creations?
I figure redundancy is a given; multiple options stores in multiple locations by different individuals for different reasons etc.
Next comes the question of storage type. I'm no expert here, but do know of the many limitations of traditional consumer electronics. I would also like to consider other, non-digital options, like simple photographs or a carbon fiber record, who knows.
Perhaps with the advent of cheaper space travel, I'd be able to send a hundred little satellites towards all reaches of space. Or you could go around the world digging down protected boxes far into the ground wherever you travel.

Basically, any thoughts here would be appreciated! I realise it's a no-guarantee plan under any circumstance, and there are a lot of unknowns. So I just want to get a clearer picture of what direction to move in

You are in luck:

HA! Good one.

Now the question is down to data format…

[ilikestargazing]

Now that would be interesting huh!
I think that's getting a little too advanced. Ideally, I would like that it's no more complex than something a child could figure out how to operate. But hey, maybe dna sequencing is a kindergarten pass-time by the time they find it

Currently I think the simplest plan would be to go get a whole bunch of small pre-loaded laptops and shield it as well as possible + include some kind of manual charger & repair kit. Could probably be done for less than $1,000 per unit.
For non-digital solutions I think something to do with engraving might be a good idea. For example you could encode a bunch of files into binary and then laser-engrave it on a highly durable metal. Would be fairly cheap. The only draw back for me here is that it's not readily "playable". But perhaps some small unit could be devised to read the engraved codes and play a sound. I've seen very old and crudely simple computers do something of the sort from reading a binary instruction on paper, although it was more akin to a really bad midi-file.

[Raveshaper]

Etch the data into the matrix of quartz crystals.

[ilikestargazing]

I think I need sharper tooth-picks.

[AttenuationHz]

You are all thinking very much inside the box. Get to know someone from SETI and make them your best friend that way you can transmit your music into the infinite surroundings of space and time and have comfort in the fact that who ever discovers it may or may not realise they do not live in the centre of the universe.

[jappe]

Interesting question.. My goal with my music is also to make a time capsule of it.

If we can find a way to modulate the radiation of our sun, then I guess just play the music with that mighty modulator and it will be travelling for eons.
Perhaps if they place a shield somewhere between the sun and the receiving part of the universe,, and that modulator shield can block/let through waves with some principle similar to LCD.

[jappe]

Etch the data into the matrix of quartz crystals.

Would that survive a major meteor impact?
Perhaps if we can find a way to interact with black matter, that could be safe from petty incidents like major meteor impacts or supernovas

[Raveshaper]

On any timescales relevant to humans, I think it would hold up pretty well.
Withstanding meteor impacts would be challenging, perhaps necessitating a deeply buried repository or installation aboard a satellite.
Any efforts to mitigate potential damage via impact ignore the inevitable problems to which there are no solutions, namely that the sun will eventually fail and consume the earth and that at some extremely distant point in time the universe will likely undergo heat death, at which point the very vibration of particles will cease.

At that point, I don't think matter itself will remain.

[dana]

Everything that has ever existed or going to "exist" is already there, preserved forever. Take a look at the physics of time..

Apart from that, there is some guy that seems to think analog tape outlives digital but after playing some old records - as long as they are not played over and over again preserve audio recordings for quite a long time until the plastic starts to degrade.

The truth is that as long as you are inside time/space, everything changes and there is nothing you can do to stop that.

But.. If you create a catchy tune or an amazing breakbeat that can be carried on by future generations in another form - think about the amen breakbeat for example, its held in another form.

[AttenuationHz]

Guess its a question of how good you are versus how good you think you are. Mozart or Beethoven's works still get rediscovered because they were genius as will Bowie's for century's to come. I guess we as musicians should concentrate in the art of focus itself and leave the discovering to people who like what they hear. Who knows one day someone who rediscovers your work might be inspired by the passion that went into recording the music in the first place and figure a way to preserve it for a longer period of time.

With the amount of music available for people to discover its all a little washy for people to like something as opposed to what they are being told to like as to what's being sold to them versus what they want. How many little gems of songs or inspirational works have you heard on soundcloud that only a handful of people know about. Guess its all the question of self discovery and or clever marketing. Look at Nikola Tesla in his day his works were so ground breaking that today we still use his technology and we still haven't figured out what he believed could work - wireless transmission of power. We would not be sitting at computers if it was not for his work.

My point is If your music is good enough to stand the test of time it most likely will. Unless we all blow each other up or spontaneously combust all at the same time. We Shouldn't be so pessimistic though and that's were focus and self belief comes into play.

[Marco Raaphorst]

music notation on paper. I believe this is why music is covered so often. and when it is covered, performed, it is still alive.

[ilikestargazing]

Everything that has ever existed or going to "exist" is already there, preserved forever. Take a look at the physics of time..

Apart from that, there is some guy that seems to think analog tape outlives digital but after playing some old records - as long as they are not played over and over again preserve audio recordings for quite a long time until the plastic starts to degrade.

The truth is that as long as you are inside time/space, everything changes and there is nothing you can do to stop that.

But.. If you create a catchy tune or an amazing breakbeat that can be carried on by future generations in another form - think about the amen breakbeat for example, its held in another form.

Hi there. You're right, I'm familiar with physics and as far as we know, no information can be permanently lost according to Einstein, Bohr and Hawking's work with black holes and quantum coherence. But I think this is a little too far fetched for something practical. And as for making a famous tune and having it survive through the power of mass endearment, I don't bet on making a top chart hit. And in any case I still want to try and preserve it both for the fun of it and the learning and chance that could come with it.

But hey for all we know, scientists could find a way at some point in the future to access all physical information that ever existed anywhere. I just still think it would be cool to make a box to withstand time

[ilikestargazing]

Guess its a question of how good you are versus how good you think you are. Mozart or Beethoven's works still get rediscovered because they were genius as will Bowie's for century's to come. I guess we as musicians should concentrate in the art of focus itself and leave the discovering to people who like what they hear. Who knows one day someone who rediscovers your work might be inspired by the passion that went into recording the music in the first place and figure a way to preserve it for a longer period of time.

With the amount of music available for people to discover its all a little washy for people to like something as opposed to what they are being told to like as to what's being sold to them versus what they want. How many little gems of songs or inspirational works have you heard on soundcloud that only a handful of people know about. Guess its all the question of self discovery and or clever marketing. Look at Nikola Tesla in his day his works were so ground breaking that today we still use his technology and we still haven't figured out what he believed could work - wireless transmission of power. We would not be sitting at computers if it was not for his work.

My point is If your music is good enough to stand the test of time it most likely will. Unless we all blow each other up or spontaneously combust all at the same time. We Shouldn't be so pessimistic though and that's were focus and self belief comes into play.

For me it's not as much about the work being good or not. As I mentioned in the original post, I would love to find someone else's box of the same kind, regardless what was in it. And while really good music certainly can stand the test of time, all of that could still be lost the same way as mine. And that's the vantage point of this idea more or less; to try and find some way to preserve something independently.

But for sure making famous music, won't hurt either!