Drums routing

[ejanuska]

Just wondering what approaches to Kong drum routing others take. I started out just adjusting levels in Kong for the drums, but that didn't last long.

Started sending separate drums out to a rack mixer. But that isn't flowing that great since I'm switching between the rack and the mixer to adjust drum levels and then over to the FX, then the console comp, back to the rack for whatever, etc. The same hassle as the first method, not to mention automation.

Now I'm working on a track where I break out the drums from Kong into separate mix channels and route them to a bus in the mixer.

The rack gets pretty crazy so instead of insert FX I'm using more console send FX, especially for reverb, EQ, comp.

I've heard some people use numerous (>5) Kongs and Redrums. You can end up with a lot of mix channels that way, unless you have a 40" wide monitor this can be undesirable also, scrolling here and there, left, and right.

[selig]

I don't know if this addresses your questions…

One thing to remember is there are faders in the rack, so you don't need to go to the mixer to adjust levels. One thing I do is to try to not worry about fine mix levels until the track is finished - which means don't worry so much about mixing when you are still tweaking the drum sounds in Kong. Just get a rough mix and worry about the SONG: the beat, the arrangement, etc.

This comes from learning to work back when mixing was always a separate stage. You worked with rough mixes 99% of the time, and only worried about the final mix during the final mix! It's still a good idea to not get caught up in the mix very early on, and this can include FX too.

Get a plan, lay a foundation, build your walls, THEN worry about decorating.

[Gorgon]

I don't know if this addresses your questions…

One thing to remember is there are faders in the rack, so you don't need to go to the mixer to adjust levels. One thing I do is to try to not worry about fine mix levels until the track is finished - which means don't worry so much about mixing when you are still tweaking the drum sounds in Kong. Just get a rough mix and worry about the SONG: the beat, the arrangement, etc.

This comes from learning to work back when mixing was always a separate stage. You worked with rough mixes 99% of the time, and only worried about the final mix during the final mix! It's still a good idea to not get caught up in the mix very early on, and this can include FX too.

Get a plan, lay a foundation, build your walls, THEN worry about decorating.

That might be a conventional approach, but that is certainly not "the" way to do it nowadays. Tweaking can alter your sound so much that your entire plan for the song changes.

[tibah]

I'm one of those guys who is using numerous instances of a given drum device/method in Reason, but not in the way you mentioned, where every instance also has separate outs to the mixer. Some of the Redrums may only hold one sample. Mostly because I'm lazy and I like the overview and even though I sat down to create a template once, I simply don't like using it. I also put my drums everywhere - NN19, Redrum, KONG, REX or as audio - so there is always a different approach.

[Gorgon]

I'm one of those guys who is using numerous instances of a given drum device/method in Reason, but not in the way you mentioned, where every instance also has separate outs to the mixer. Some of the Redrums may only hold one sample.

That's actually not even a bad idea. Especially if you consider that loading a kit completely f*cks up the routing whenever you use the seperate outputs.

[selig]

I don't know if this addresses your questions…

One thing to remember is there are faders in the rack, so you don't need to go to the mixer to adjust levels. One thing I do is to try to not worry about fine mix levels until the track is finished - which means don't worry so much about mixing when you are still tweaking the drum sounds in Kong. Just get a rough mix and worry about the SONG: the beat, the arrangement, etc.

This comes from learning to work back when mixing was always a separate stage. You worked with rough mixes 99% of the time, and only worried about the final mix during the final mix! It's still a good idea to not get caught up in the mix very early on, and this can include FX too.

Get a plan, lay a foundation, build your walls, THEN worry about decorating.

That might be a conventional approach, but that is certainly not "the" way to do it nowadays. Tweaking can alter your sound so much that your entire plan for the song changes.

If I was clear, that's not even the way "I" do it nowadays…

My point is not to worry about "mixing/polishing" an idea that is still in early stages of flux, which is also your point right? That tweaking can alter your sound so much, so logically speaking how can you apply final mix techniques to the initial sounds…

[Kalm]

Very new to the forum here but I wanted to post my 3c. I'm from the school of no touching faders. I'll trigger Kong from ReDrum and do my levels and tweaking in Kong or through the Insert effects of the Mix Channels. Find it to be really important when using saturation stuff and keeping balanced levels throughout the devices. I really only visit the mixer now for "width" control and side chain dynamics.

[selig]

Very new to the forum here but I wanted to post my 3c. I'm from the school of no touching faders. I'll trigger Kong from ReDrum and do my levels and tweaking in Kong or through the Insert effects of the Mix Channels. Find it to be really important when using saturation stuff and keeping balanced levels throughout the devices. I really only visit the mixer now for "width" control and side chain dynamics.

One issue to be aware of is that faders are the ONLY place you can adjust level and be sure you're not affecting downstream dynamics/saturation devices, with the exception of when using bus compression of course.

That is to say one of two things: either don't add compression until you're done tweaking the sounds, or be very vigilante with any changes and KNOW how they affect downstream processing (and make necessary adjustments, which is more work but sometime the only solution).

I prefer to do as little "tail chasing" as possible, so once I've set any dynamics/saturation effects I am careful with level adjustments and try to make them where they won't affect my carefully set processing!

Just something to be aware of, not necessarily a "rule" of any sort…

[Kalm]

Very new to the forum here but I wanted to post my 3c. I'm from the school of no touching faders. I'll trigger Kong from ReDrum and do my levels and tweaking in Kong or through the Insert effects of the Mix Channels. Find it to be really important when using saturation stuff and keeping balanced levels throughout the devices. I really only visit the mixer now for "width" control and side chain dynamics.

One issue to be aware of is that faders are the ONLY place you can adjust level and be sure you're not affecting downstream dynamics/saturation devices, with the exception of when using bus compression of course.

That is to say one of two things: either don't add compression until you're done tweaking the sounds, or be very vigilante with any changes and KNOW how they affect downstream processing (and make necessary adjustments, which is more work but sometime the only solution).

I prefer to do as little "tail chasing" as possible, so once I've set any dynamics/saturation effects I am careful with level adjustments and try to make them where they won't affect my carefully set processing!

Just something to be aware of, not necessarily a "rule" of any sort…

Right, understood. I typically avoid compression unless at all necessary and generally only use Pulverizer or Mix Compressor. If I'm using the Mix Compressor I change the routing setup in the mixer. Appreciate the warning (not attempting to be a jerk x] ) but I'm only new to the forum, not to audio =} .

I also finish things up in other DAWs so Reason is my craftwork, sound design, palette, dartboard, paint brush, yadadadadada

[selig]

Very new to the forum here but I wanted to post my 3c. I'm from the school of no touching faders. I'll trigger Kong from ReDrum and do my levels and tweaking in Kong or through the Insert effects of the Mix Channels. Find it to be really important when using saturation stuff and keeping balanced levels throughout the devices. I really only visit the mixer now for "width" control and side chain dynamics.

One issue to be aware of is that faders are the ONLY place you can adjust level and be sure you're not affecting downstream dynamics/saturation devices, with the exception of when using bus compression of course.

That is to say one of two things: either don't add compression until you're done tweaking the sounds, or be very vigilante with any changes and KNOW how they affect downstream processing (and make necessary adjustments, which is more work but sometime the only solution).

I prefer to do as little "tail chasing" as possible, so once I've set any dynamics/saturation effects I am careful with level adjustments and try to make them where they won't affect my carefully set processing!

Just something to be aware of, not necessarily a "rule" of any sort…

Right, understood. I typically avoid compression unless at all necessary and generally only use Pulverizer or Mix Compressor. If I'm using the Mix Compressor I change the routing setup in the mixer. Appreciate the warning (not attempting to be a jerk x] ) but I'm only new to the forum, not to audio =} .

I also finish things up in other DAWs so Reason is my craftwork, sound design, palette, dartboard, paint brush, yadadadadada

Compression is hardly ever "necessary", but that's never stopped me from using it!
Why no touching of the faders? I mean, they're even "finger shaped" and placed the closest to the engineer of all the controls…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kalm]

Very new to the forum here but I wanted to post my 3c. I'm from the school of no touching faders. I'll trigger Kong from ReDrum and do my levels and tweaking in Kong or through the Insert effects of the Mix Channels. Find it to be really important when using saturation stuff and keeping balanced levels throughout the devices. I really only visit the mixer now for "width" control and side chain dynamics.

One issue to be aware of is that faders are the ONLY place you can adjust level and be sure you're not affecting downstream dynamics/saturation devices, with the exception of when using bus compression of course.

That is to say one of two things: either don't add compression until you're done tweaking the sounds, or be very vigilante with any changes and KNOW how they affect downstream processing (and make necessary adjustments, which is more work but sometime the only solution).

I prefer to do as little "tail chasing" as possible, so once I've set any dynamics/saturation effects I am careful with level adjustments and try to make them where they won't affect my carefully set processing!

Just something to be aware of, not necessarily a "rule" of any sort…

Right, understood. I typically avoid compression unless at all necessary and generally only use Pulverizer or Mix Compressor. If I'm using the Mix Compressor I change the routing setup in the mixer. Appreciate the warning (not attempting to be a jerk x] ) but I'm only new to the forum, not to audio =} .

I also finish things up in other DAWs so Reason is my craftwork, sound design, palette, dartboard, paint brush, yadadadadada

Compression is hardly ever "necessary", but that's never stopped me from using it!
Why no touching of the faders? I mean, they're even "finger shaped" and placed the closest to the engineer of all the controls…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My bad I'm JUST now seeing this lol. I use mainly for automation. So I get my levels how I like them through the stages through reason just to keep my sense of levels between reach track relative. Then I touch faders if I need to do any automation. So in nutshells, it helps me keep things relative lol.

[Arrant]

Now I'm working on a track where I break out the drums from Kong into separate mix channels and route them to a bus in the mixer.

Yup, that's the way my startup template works. For the "main" drum track with kicks, hats etc there's no way I wouldn't want to process them all separately.
For other kong/redrum instances that are more like extra percussion, filler loops etc I don't normally bother to break them out onto more than a single mixer track each.

[ctreitzell]

This old thread addresses my current question and refers possibly to my thinking for increasing variance to drums. I haven't really gotten too deep into Kong programming until recently and now realize how effective 16 different slice or chunk triggers can be for the main kit drums like BD, SD, Toms, cymbals, etc

A single Kong for BD variance of 16 different hits, for example. And building entire kits this way. Is that what folks were doing 10+ years ago?