The “problem” with impulse response for amp cabinet sounds

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Ostermilk
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17 Dec 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
16 Dec 2017
I think using a pre-amp + IR is not enough. you need power amp simulation as well.

I use tube amps + palmer PDI03 for this in combination with IRs.

Or use this mind blowing power amp in software: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/tpa-1-by-ignite-amps

The Ignite stuff is the best around. Beats anything else available and is even free!
Cheers Marco.

These are little-gems, I just put the pre-amp 'The Anvil' that power amp and the convolver in a combi and saved it as a chain.

My first attempts at tweaking around with it have been very impressive so far. It's revealed a really tight and tidy sound, for picked runs I've been after for ages.

I'm not after that mid-20th century guitar-slinger authenticity by any means but this little setup looks like it might measure up in the contexts that I'm likely to use it in.

Good shout!

mtbh
Posts: 17
Joined: 09 Jun 2017

17 Dec 2017

These days, I swear by IR's.

Like others have mentioned, I also feel that the mic/cab is what is wrong with most modelling. I feel that IR's are vastly superior.

The standard Softtube (especially the two first models, "Twang" and "Crunch") in Reason actually sounds pretty good with IR's. I don't like them at all with the standard cabs provided with Softube.

My favorite combo these days - Scuffham S-Gear with Red Wirez IR two IR's (a deluxe and twin )

With warts and all - just to give and idea why I like it. Gives that clean/dirty strat sound ala jimi/srv.


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selig
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17 Dec 2017

[Early morning random thoughts…]

I wonder if we’re looking at this technology ‘wrong’. It’s gone beyond trying to copy what’s come before and matured into it’s own “thing” IMO. It occurred to me that we are entering the “golden age” of digital guitar amp technology. I call it that here because calling it “amp simulators” implies it must recreate a physical amp “perfectly” in order to justify it’s existence or usefulness.

It’s like when synthesizers first came on the scene, and there were folks saying the problem with them was that they were not “real instruments”. They had no soul, they were sterile, heartless, etc. The same thing was said for samplers too. In many ways this was because they didn’t sound like what had come before!

Come to think of it, the electric guitar itself was not taken seriously when it first came on the scene. But eventually, it matured and there was a new generation of musicians showing it’s full potential as an expressive musical instrument. And I fully expect that to happen to the digital amp world as well.

So here’s to the next generation of guitarists who see this technology not as a way to simulate/replace a physical thing, but rather as a tool unto itself, capable of expressing their musical visions and useful for creating their own musical voice.
:)


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Selig Audio, LLC

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Dec 2017

selig wrote:
17 Dec 2017
So here’s to the next generation of guitarists who see this technology not as a way to simulate/replace a physical thing, but rather as a tool unto itself, capable of expressing their musical visions and useful for creating their own musical voice.
The other day I was experimenting with sounds. I used the Ring Modulator of Kong to drive some saturation combi I was working on. Then I thought "aliasing is like ring modulation". Overdriving a electric guitar came by accident. It was not perfect but there was no other way to do. Putting these amps real loud, they started to overdrive. Like aliasing was the outcome of the first digital chips. Or when you want light CPU processing.

In classical, folk and jazz, everything in general needs to sound perfect and crystal clean. But that can be boring an uncreative. Changing sound is great fun. And artefacts are characteristics.

We have so many tools available to create great guitar tone. Why not use them ALL? Btw 2017 has been a great year for the guitar. It's huge in rap music also.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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syncanonymous
Posts: 334
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Location: UK and France

18 Dec 2017

Ah, snap! And I thought this all lead to mic-ing a cab still sounds best
well, looks like I am agonna hafta dive into this IR arena, then
thanks for all the great contributions y’all

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sublunar
Posts: 267
Joined: 27 Apr 2017

20 Dec 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Dec 2017
Have you ever tried https://www.celestionplus.com ?

Celestion is also claiming there's no difference between IR and the real thing.

I have A/B tested IRs and I can't hear the difference.
No I haven't. I just checked and they don't have an IR for the current production Celestion speakers I'm using in my cabs anyway. I've googled and don't see any IR's for them elsewhere either. Not to mention combined with the cab I'm using. So once again, if I'm tasked with reproducing my real setup with emulations, the emulations don't even exist. Celestion can claim whatever they like regarding the differences or lack thereof. I'm sure every modeler makes the same claim though.

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sublunar
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20 Dec 2017

selig wrote:
17 Dec 2017
...guitarists...see this technology not as a way to simulate/replace a physical thing, but rather as a tool unto itself, capable of expressing their musical visions and useful for creating their own musical voice.
:)
Completely agree.

I've tried using sims as tools to "just sound good to my ears", not to simulate anything in particular. They fell short. I just didn't like any of the sounds. Instead, I use modern guitars and amps and I have built a (inexpensive) rig that covers a wide variety of sounds and to my ears it sounds absolutely awesome. Perfect, even. Nothing about my gear is classic or emulating sounds of decades past. I've researched and mixed and matched modern components to achieve what I'm after.

For me, there's nothing fun about browsing presets, menu diving, interacting with a computer and fatiguing my ears listening to limitless expanses of emulations. Plugging a guitar into an amp or mixing and matching stomp-boxes, however is pretty damn fun. I guess I'm spoiled because it only took a couple amps and speaker swaps to get where I want to be. But in the end it's all personal choice. To each their own.

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