REASON 9: The Wait Is Getting Ridiculous

[plaamook]

Comes out in June.

^Interesting "hit"

Yeah, well it's a hit to me. We'll see anyway. I'm quietly confident about it.

R9 list doesn't look very inspiring. Maybe there's an sdk update in there somewhere.

[Creativemind]

On May 30th 2016, so just over 2 weeks, it'll have been 20 months since Reason 8 was released. That's a fair while.

[jappe]

On May 30th 2016, so just over 2 weeks, it'll have been 20 months since Reason 8 was released. That's a fair while.

Though with RE:s, the version stress should perhaps not be too big.
Any new exciting RE is like a mini release to me.

I hope the Prop's will continue focusing on workflow improvements: I can think of nothing more important for my creativity than having a superb workflow.
And that they do the best they can to make the SDK awesome - I'm fine with the Prop's never releasing a new device again as long as there are good RE devs who will.

Finally, the sequencer: There's stuff to improve here. Highest on my wishlist is to align MIDI loop recording with audio loop recording: I want to be able to pick the best take in comp edit mode for MIDI just as I can for recorded audio

[ClassickHitz]

Be it a leak or something else, someone at Propellerheads finally realizes that at least some form of a teaser is just good marketing.

Today with technology evolving at such a rapid pace adopting a hurry up and wait business model will no longer fly.

It's been damn near two years (20 months) since R8 was announced. And that wouldn't be such a big thing if Reason wasn't so far behind the DAW curve as it pertains to the basics in comparison to other DAWs.

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility. I'm just looking to see if whether or not the cord needs to be cut and I move on altogether making Reason more of a plugin.

In any case at least we don't have to wait any longer to see what's what. There's nothing like having to wait unnecessarily long for something and it still doesn't measure up. Especially when you know focus elsewhere( Discover or Allihoopa) may have contributed to possible shortcomings and/or another lack luster update.

We shall see!

[esselfortium]

In any case at least we don't have to wait any longer to see what's what. There's nothing like having to wait unnecessarily long for something and it still doesn't measure up. Especially when you know focus elsewhere( Discover or Allihoopa) may have contributed to possible shortcomings and/or another lack luster update.

We shall see!

Discover/Allihoopa is developed by separate people than Reason, I believe. Same situation with the mobile apps.

[guitfnky]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility.

Have they been slowly removing functionality without us looking?

[fieldframe]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility. I'm just looking to see if whether or not the cord needs to be cut and I move on altogether making Reason more of a plugin.

I know the feeling. I've always liked Reason's hands-on, manual approach to music making, but the more I see other DAWs streamlining things and adding interesting new functionality, the more it does look like I'm doing things the hard way.

Not that the hard way is necessarily the wrong way. But it's something to keep in perspective.

[ClassickHitz]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility.

Have they been slowly removing functionality without us looking?

You don't have to remove functionality or features to be behind the curve. If Props is classifying themselves as game changers yet are still playing catch up when it comes to what other DAWs have then you are answering your own questions.

I really don't care if you choose to be pro Reason no matter the objective point's of view. But don't dismiss legitimate critiques because of hurt feelings.

You're entitled to hurt feelings if you choose to feel some type of way about what I'm stating. Just like I'm entitled to my opinion as a Reason consumer. Right?!!

[ClassickHitz]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility. I'm just looking to see if whether or not the cord needs to be cut and I move on altogether making Reason more of a plugin.

I know the feeling. I've always liked Reason's hands-on, manual approach to music making, but the more I see other DAWs streamlining things and adding interesting new functionality, the more it does look like I'm doing things the hard way.

Not that the hard way is necessarily the wrong way. But it's something to keep in perspective.

I totally get it. Some times you just want to get it poppin' without all the workaround. I've been feeling more and more that Propellerhead has been purposely dragging when it comes to staying current and relevant. They'll do just enough but not too much. Always 2-3 years behind what the latest and greatest offerings are.

Then here come the loyalest acting like the wheel has been re-invented when Props finally gives us what was already available elsewhere 3x over. And it doesn't help when they focus a whole year plus on Discover no wait Allihoopa with no real end game that makes sense.

But hey who am I to have such views. I'm just a Reason consumer and my opinion doesn't mean anything. Right?!

[Scoobyman II]

O/T That guys little brother dances like a mad man when he plays on stage (Seen um twice live). Just watched a good BBC documentary on the Young and Albert families.

[guitfnky]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility.

Have they been slowly removing functionality without us looking?

You don't have to remove functionality or features to be behind the curve. If Props is classifying themselves as game changers yet are still playing catch up when it comes to what other DAWs have then you are answering your own questions.

I really don't care if you choose to be pro Reason no matter the objective point's of view. But don't dismiss legitimate critiques because of hurt feelings.

You're entitled to hurt feelings if you choose to feel some type of way about what I'm stating. Just like I'm entitled to my opinion as a Reason consumer. Right?!!

not really sure where the hurt feelings thing is coming from, but okay...

the only point I'm making is, you're saying Props is making it more and more difficult for you to just stick with Reason as your lone DAW solution. that's false. to date, they've only ever added functionality. by definition, that means every release makes it easier to use on its own.

you can think Reason is behind the curve, or whatever, but at the end of the day, that's your own decision; that's on you, not on Props.

[joeyluck]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility. I'm just looking to see if whether or not the cord needs to be cut and I move on altogether making Reason more of a plugin.

I know the feeling. I've always liked Reason's hands-on, manual approach to music making, but the more I see other DAWs streamlining things and adding interesting new functionality, the more it does look like I'm doing things the hard way.

Not that the hard way is necessarily the wrong way. But it's something to keep in perspective.

I totally get it. Some times you just want to get it poppin' without all the workaround. I've been feeling more and more that Propellerhead has been purposely dragging when it comes to staying current and relevant. They'll do just enough but not too much. Always 2-3 years behind what the latest and greatest offerings are.

Then here come the loyalest acting like the wheel has been re-invented when Props finally gives us what was already available elsewhere 3x over. And it doesn't help when they focus a whole year plus on Discover no wait Allihoopa with no real end game that makes sense.

But hey who am I to have such views. I'm just a Reason consumer and my opinion doesn't mean anything. Right?!

I don't think that's the case. I don't think anybody is telling you to not have an opinion. It's just a bit more difficult to understand someone who sticks with Reason with something negative to say about everything... "Always 2-3 years behind" "what was available elsewhere 3x over"? If that was the way I felt, not sure I would be using it...? And that would be ok. I however feel that Reason is ahead of the game which is why I use it. That's not a fanboy/loyalist talking...that's someone talking who genuinely likes Reason. Again, I didn't upgrade to Reason 8 until 8.3. There were a few things with Reason 8 out of the box that just didn't work well for me and I wasn't sure I needed it. You can call me a 'reasonable fanboy' if you like...

[platzangst]

I don't think anybody is telling you to not have an opinion.

Well, I'm certainly not - but what I would say (in general) is:

1: Don't pretend your opinions are objective facts (and learn to tell the difference); and

2: Just because you have an opinion and give a critique, that does not make your opinions themselves immune from critique. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

[avasopht]

I've been feeling more and more that Propellerhead has been purposely dragging when it comes to staying current and relevant.

So are you suggesting propellerhead pay their staff to NOT work (which is what dragging your feet with features has to involve eventually)? That makes ZERO sense.

You are ASSUMING what is going on behind closed doors, that's nothing to do with being honest or wanting the best, it's projection, is it not?

And it doesn't help when they focus a whole year plus on Discover no wait Allihoopa with no real end game that makes sense.

Dude, if you develop websites you'll know they couldn't have spent all too much time developing that IF they did at all, much cheaper to hire web developers (I've worked in similar sized teams and the programmers weren't involved in the website or promotional videos, despite having a team capable of doing so). Secondly, you've absolutely no idea how well formed their end game plan is, changing the name doesn't mean the direction has changed, that is just a name, you have assigned MEANING to it. Check out what else uJam (who make the IDT) does ... THINK about that for a minute

[dioxide]

Discover/Allihoopa is developed by separate people than Reason, I believe. Same situation with the mobile apps.

With Allihoopa there is no source of income at all, so the money to develop it comes from other places, most likely from sales of Reason and REs. Remember those developers that worked on Discover need to be paid and up until recently Discover was part of PH. Until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume that the funding for the project came from PH's income source. Personally I'd rather see this money invested into developers for Reason as I feel the recent updates have been pretty weak.

[Creativemind]

I think it is obvious that Reason 9 won't be released before the expiration of Line 6.

Not at all. Let's say they announce next month for a July release. A person updating is making a choice to have their Line 6 expire early by upgrading. If you don't upgrade then you will later because it's expiring anyway.

And I highly doubt people are even using the Line 6 products at this point.

I've not used them since the Softube Amps were introduced.

Not because they're better really, but because the Line 6's were being dropped so wasn't gonna have loads of projects using them then they become useless when they get scrapped.

[Karim]

I'm not refreshing the Propellerhead page expecting an announcement.

Well, that won't be true for much longer...haha
Look at me now... I'm on standby to start hitting that refresh lol

Refresh.jpg

I figure there's a chance a YouTube video will go live slightly before the official post on the website.
Never been in this position before knowing that an announcement might be imminent. Or could be the best hoax of all time.

I'm obsessed too ( I check Twitter too tho I m not actually a fan)

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[Karim]

On May 30th 2016, so just over 2 weeks, it'll have been 20 months since Reason 8 was released. That's a fair while.

30 may is my birthday. I wish a big present ( at least an announcement... )[emoji8]

Inviato dal mio GT-I9301I utilizzando Tapatalk

[ClassickHitz]

I've been feeling more and more that Propellerhead has been purposely dragging when it comes to staying current and relevant.

So are you suggesting propellerhead pay their staff to NOT work (which is what dragging your feet with features has to involve eventually)? That makes ZERO sense.

You are ASSUMING what is going on behind closed doors, that's nothing to do with being honest or wanting the best, it's projection, is it not?

And it doesn't help when they focus a whole year plus on Discover no wait Allihoopa with no real end game that makes sense.

Dude, if you develop websites you'll know they couldn't have spent all too much time developing that IF they did at all, much cheaper to hire web developers (I've worked in similar sized teams and the programmers weren't involved in the website or promotional videos, despite having a team capable of doing so). Secondly, you've absolutely no idea how well formed their end game plan is, changing the name doesn't mean the direction has changed, that is just a name, you have assigned MEANING to it. Check out what else uJam (who make the IDT) does ... THINK about that for a minute

You're right I don't develop websites and have never claimed to do so. And I don't have any idea of how well formed their end game may be. What I do have a is a impeccable memory of Props most recent failures as it comes to what can be perceived abandoned projects. We can start with Balance and end with Discover if need examples.

[avasopht]

Discover isn't abandoned, it's renamed / rebranded.

And Balance! Look at Google, they have untold abandoned projects. Every developer has abandoned projects; I've spent the better part of two years working tirelessly on an abandoned project, Google has a library of abandoned projects. So no, having abandoned projects is no indication of anything.

Besides balance is just a piece of hardware that propellerhead didn't manufacture. Tell me, what exactly have they done wrong??

[Creativemind]

[quote="plaamook
Yeah I have sevral jobs. Sound is one of em. I don't want them to rush anything. I like their stability. But that's not the issue. Up to R7 I've never had a complaint. But post R7?... Yeah, I'm a little axious. There are things that need adressing in Reason. Some of it's a matter of opinion, other bits are a given. But they're teetering on an edge I think. If they can't make themselves really competitive they run the risk of their PROFIT coming from things like allthehoolpa and were does that leave us? The rest of the DAW world will move on and some of us will be moving with them. RE wasted money or no. I don't want em to rush. I want them to be great! I'm just anxious that's all.[/quote]

I agree.

As regards the leaked info on Synthtopia, the listed features sound awesome, and I welcome them very much. However, for me, I want a professional music making software. Without certain features, Reason comes across as unprofessional. That's not to say it's shoddy in any way, it isn't. It is a very capable and fantastic daw, but without the features (which I won't list here) it let's itself down professionally. Once these things are addressed (which I'm sure they will, eventually) it will and could be the best daw on the market but it's looking like Reason 10 maybe 11 at this rate.

I've got my fingers crossed for "the key workflow" things mentioned will incorporate some of the things I want in Reason. Some of them aren't biggies, but man, they save time, make things a hell of a lot easier, with a few being nye on essential for professional recoreding, such as all parameters in dB and hz including automation.

[Creativemind]

Maybe it's a purposeful leak just to gauge user response to the new features before they even develop them

Yes I thought the leak was done on purpose to gauge peoples reactions. Good idea I think if it was.

Don't know why the Props in some respects, don't have a poll for the key features. Say, they're mulling over a half dozen biggies, but only want to incorporate 3. Why don't they do a poll on here and the most popular 3 win?

I'm saying 3 biggies there, such as SDKIII with sample loading and a Propellerhead Granular Synth, Video Editing, Supercombinator (as people call it) etc

There will obviously be a few smaller features to go with and new sounds I suppose.

[ClassickHitz]

I personally would like to work in one DAW but as time goes by Reason makes that more and more not a possibility. I'm just looking to see if whether or not the cord needs to be cut and I move on altogether making Reason more of a plugin.

I know the feeling. I've always liked Reason's hands-on, manual approach to music making, but the more I see other DAWs streamlining things and adding interesting new functionality, the more it does look like I'm doing things the hard way.

Not that the hard way is necessarily the wrong way. But it's something to keep in perspective.

I totally get it. Some times you just want to get it poppin' without all the workaround. I've been feeling more and more that Propellerhead has been purposely dragging when it comes to staying current and relevant. They'll do just enough but not too much. Always 2-3 years behind what the latest and greatest offerings are.

Then here come the loyalest acting like the wheel has been re-invented when Props finally gives us what was already available elsewhere 3x over. And it doesn't help when they focus a whole year plus on Discover no wait Allihoopa with no real end game that makes sense.

But hey who am I to have such views. I'm just a Reason consumer and my opinion doesn't mean anything. Right?!

I don't think that's the case. I don't think anybody is telling you to not have an opinion. It's just a bit more difficult to understand someone who sticks with Reason with something negative to say about everything... "Always 2-3 years behind" "what was available elsewhere 3x over"? If that was the way I felt, not sure I would be using it...? And that would be ok. I however feel that Reason is ahead of the game which is why I use it. That's not a fanboy/loyalist talking...that's someone talking who genuinely likes Reason. Again, I didn't upgrade to Reason 8 until 8.3. There were a few things with Reason 8 out of the box that just didn't work well for me and I wasn't sure I needed it. You can call me a 'reasonable fanboy' if you like...

People can feel a certain way about a product stilling using it but hoping said product will eventually catch up and/or come around to today's standards. How is that remotely hard to conceive?

As far as always having something negative to say about everything...that's just flat-out not true and I'll be blunt in saying that's bullshit as it pertains to me personally.

I've been one of the biggest day one defenders of Reason up until R8. Dating back to the Propellerhead forums I always appreciated the stability of the software platform along with how Props at the time seemed to be moving in the DAW evolutionary right direction.

However, I noticed over the years that there have been some people who've had valid points regarding Props snail approach at Reason product development. Couple this with how they've cranked out more RE offerings for sale than they've provided modules in update/upgrade releases and it becomes pretty obvious that it's about money over substance and quality.

[avasopht]

However, I noticed over the years that there have been some people who've had valid points regarding Props snail approach at Reason product development. Couple this with how they've cranked out more RE offerings for sale than they've provided modules in update/upgrade releases and it becomes pretty obvious that it's about money over substance and quality.

My thing is this, how do you know how fast or slow development should be? How long exactly should it take to CHANGE Reason into a full fledged DAW? Just FYI, changing app function while retaining existing functionality is UBER slow. It's actually better to start off from scratch, which is why the developers of Bitwig were able to achieve more in a few years from scratch than they ever were with a decade or so of developing Live.

So counter arguments to your perception of them dragging their feet is nothing to do with being a fanboy, it's simply having an understanding that things aren't necessarily as you PERCEIVE them to be.

I personally think Propellerhead were going down the right path with the Reason/Record separation with integration. I'd have even gone further in making Record completely separate separated from the Reason functionality, having racks per instrument channel.

In essence I think slapping on DAW functionality to Reason will always slow development.

[ClassickHitz]

However, I noticed over the years that there have been some people who've had valid points regarding Props snail approach at Reason product development. Couple this with how they've cranked out more RE offerings for sale than they've provided modules in update/upgrade releases and it becomes pretty obvious that it's about money over substance and quality.

My thing is this, how do you know how fast or slow development should be? How long exactly should it take to CHANGE Reason into a full fledged DAW? Just FYI, changing app function while retaining existing functionality is UBER slow. It's actually better to start off from scratch, which is why the developers of Bitwig were able to achieve more in a few years from scratch than they ever were with a decade or so of developing Live.

So counter arguments to your perception of them dragging their feet is nothing to do with being a fanboy, it's simply having an understanding that things aren't necessarily as you PERCEIVE them to be.

I personally think Propellerhead were going down the right path with the Reason/Record separation with integration. I'd have even gone further in making Record completely separate separated from the Reason functionality, having racks per instrument channel.

In essence I think slapping on DAW functionality to Reason will always slow development.

I'm having trouble understanding how you can state I'm perceiving development as being slow. Then in the next sentence state yourself the thinking of once they entered the DAW realm development always slows down. So then it must be your perception as well. Right?!