Finally, an end to the VST debate?

[Raveshaper]

At long last, there is hope for an end to the eternal debate over VST support in Reason.

In the course of my research, I have stumbled across a means of reliably crashing Reason.
This discovery is being used to develop a completely useless script that will crash your session at a random moment between 15 and 60 minutes after either the script has been loaded or Reason has been started with the script already enabled.

How is this a solution to the debate, and what use is this?
It's completely useless and an absolute joke. But, now it is possible for Reason to act like any VST host and crash right when you're finally getting somewhere. So, rejoice! It won't load Massive, but it will crash like something that can.

[gak]

Fantastic! Finally the feature I've been looking for.

Well done!

[Soft Enerji]

[JNeffLind]

Raveshaper pushing the boundaries of reason as always. Well done my man.

[Aquila]

I have absolutely no idea why I'm so impressed with this.

[plaamook]

I'm seeing a RE here. ReCrash or whatever. Simulates VST's.

[Stranger.]

ΣΣΣ

[Raveshaper]

If i was buying -it might be instant.

I would recommend a price of $0.99 USD, because it really would be ridiculous to actually charge for this surface.
It's not like I am actually unlocking true VST support, that would not only be insanely hard, it would be criminal.

PH are either shaking heads and fists wildly,or,thinking -"if only the kid knew,what we do".

I expect a point update to snuff out the crash behavior soon after I put this out. I would like it to stick around simply as an example of how Reason is so flexible it can even be broken, but I have a feeling they won't want to leave a stability issue big enough to cripple their program.

I have found a way to cause enormous amounts of system lag as well, thought of calling it something like "Windows 95 Compatibility Mode" because it simulates the app running on a vastly inferior computer. But again, it has no practical use, so I probably won't release that.

Raveshaper-what can anyone do to help your other project? Mappings?

Remote map files. They are big, boring to make, laborious to write, and contain up to thousands and thousands of entries.
However, I may have a method of automatically generating them using NetBeans. I will need to update my laptop to El Capitan, then get the latest release of NetBeans installed so I can begin the process of writing a utility to generate the files. With any luck, it will be incredibly easy to do. But then, nothing technical is ever that direct or simple, or so I have found.

I think what I'm saying here is that while I would enjoy the help, this is really so complicated that I would have to take whatever someone did for me and rework it anyway, so I'll just go ahead and continue on my own. But thanks anyway.

I have said in the past that if I could live off of donations I could devote myself to working on this nearly 24/7 with no impacts to my time from going to work and living my life, but who wants to spend money on something they haven't actually seen (beyond this)?

This is a showstopper. Leet haxzor vet.

Uh, I'm not really 1337, just very curious and very passionate. But the stuff I'm doing doesn't just stop the show, it starts a new one.
I'm glad to see excitement over the potential my "other" work has, because even though I'm building it I'm most excited by the fact I have no idea what the limits of what it can do will be. It takes everything you know and love about Reason and adds another dimension to what you can do and how you can do it. I can't wait to put it through its paces and hear something amazing that I could never have created before. I am so excited by what live performers will be able to do on stage with this. And again, I don't know what the limits are.

Thank you for the support, it means a lot.
I'll get on with the update of OSX and get NetBeans installed.
More soon in the DataBridge thread.

[txh003]

As a person with over 300 VSTs, none of which are crack versions, I do not understand the fallacy that associates VSTs with regular DAW crashes. Maybe 10 years ago, I would agree with VST instabilities, but not in 2016.

I honestly rarely experience a DAW crash and, when they do occur, it is usually attributed to a bug in a recent DAW update and not the VST. In my humble opinion, the benefits that VST compatibility would bring to Reason far outweigh any negatives. YMMV.

Therefore, long live the request for VST compatibility in Reason!!!

Edited for clarification.

[kitekrazy]

As a person with over 300 VSTs, none of which are crack versions, I do not understand the fallacy that associates VSTs with regular DAW crashes. Maybe 10 years ago, I would agree with VST instabilities, but not in 2016.

I honestly rarely experience a DAW crash and, when they do occur, it is usually attributed to a bug in a recent DAW update and not the VST. In my humble opinion, the benefits that VST compatibility would bring to Reason far outweigh any negatives. YMMV.

Therefore, long live the request for VST compatibility in Reason!!!

Edited for clarification.

It's not always about stability but resources used to run a VST.

[normen]

Yeah the thing is what kinds of libraries, OS functions etc. you invoke by using a VST. Since they're basically normal applications and theres no defined set of functions for them to use you might use 10 different ways to display stuff, 10 different ways to access data on the harddisk and not to mention 10 different copy protection mechanisms all in the memory space of your DAW which is less than ideal as all of these could have some bugs and use separate resources.

[chk071]

Yeah the thing is what kinds of libraries, OS functions etc. you invoke by using a VST. Since they're basically normal applications and theres no defined set of functions for them to use you might use 10 different ways to display stuff, 10 different ways to access data on the harddisk and not to mention 10 different copy protection mechanisms all in the memory space of your DAW which is less than ideal as all of these could have some bugs and use separate resources.

In theory. Practically, my VST DAW never crashes, and my VST plugins don't use much ressources. I think this is a bit nitpicking really. Let's not forget also that Reason has such a small CPU footprint, because it doesn't do oversampling internally, and because, due to the in-the-box architecture, they're able to keep the CPU low naturally. If Propellerhead would implement VST support tomorrow, and the plugins would make use of oversampling, it would take as much ressources as every other host out there.

I think we often forget how stable audio software really is. I honestly can't remember the last time i crashed any host. And if it crashes, it's often due to badly written plugins, which don't conform well to the plugin format, or has other issues i don't know of.

[normen]

In theory. Practically, my VST DAW never crashes, and my VST plugins don't use much ressources. I think this is a bit nitpicking really. Let's not forget also that Reason has such a small CPU footprint, because it doesn't do oversampling internally, and because, due to the in-the-box architecture, they're able to keep the CPU low naturally. If Propellerhead would implement VST support tomorrow, and the plugins would make use of oversampling, it would take as much ressources as every other host out there.

Well thats fine. But I rather use one long XLR cable on stage instead of multiple cables connected together because the latter has more fail points. But normally it works just as well. So in my "native" DAWs as well I try to keep the amount of plugins low. I don't really worry that much about this in Reason.

[chk071]

I think limiting yourself to few plugins/devices is always a good thing. I don't do that so much for stability reasons though, but rather because i would get nuts with a gazillion of plugins, which i will barely scratch the surface when using them anyway. That's why i always felt attracted to Reason too, because it gives you the essential tools to make music. Not so much into the modular side of things though, and i simply find some things are too complicated and too cumbersome. E.g. a synth like Antidote gives you a completely different perspective, because you have things like unison on oscillator level, ability to pan the unison voices in the stereo field, built-in effects which offer you a lot of functionality out of the box (all things which are pretty standard in every VST these days btw, if i may add that), without having to fiddle with lots of routing and stuff. Simply things i find quite hard to do with the factory devices. Anyway, drifting off to a general discussion about Reason, which i don't really want to.

[joeyluck]

I figured the end of the VST debate comes every time when this happens:

User who wants VST support:
"I don't care if a VST doesn't integrate perfectly with Reason inside the Rack. I just want something that is a bit more seamless than using MIDI Out via the EMI."

Same user who wants VST support:
"Ugh. Is this another RE made with the IDT? It doesn't have enough CV connections. This doesn't take advantage of what Reason is all about. Why hasn't Propellerhead updated the SDK to allow this functionality?"

Of course, any RE still integrates very well within Reason even if it's lacking additional CV connections. And I'm sure we will see that addressed at some point. But it sure is funny seeing these responses by some of the same users.
Or maybe those people are just around to troll and look for something to complain about...

[groggy1]

I figured the end of the VST debate comes every time when this happens:

User who wants VST support:
"I don't care if a VST doesn't integrate perfectly with Reason inside the Rack. I just want something that is a bit more seamless than using MIDI Out via the EMI."

Same user who wants VST support:
"Ugh. Is this another RE made with the IDT? It doesn't have enough CV connections. This doesn't take advantage of what Reason is all about. Why hasn't Propellerhead updated the SDK to allow this functionality?"

As a Reason(EMI)+VST user, I think you described what I want very eloquently:
"I don't care if a VST doesn't integrate perfectly with Reason inside the Rack. I just want something that is a bit more seamless than using MIDI Out via the EMI."

But, I'd say the IDT thing doesn't bother me (and I've never complained about it). Why? Because I don't really think about or consider buying RE instruments now that I have VSTs in Reason. (But I still love RE effects + utilities)


Thanks!

[gak]

I love vsts. Such elegant crashing machines

[groggy1]

I love vsts. Such elegant crashing machines

Agreed, they definitely crash more than Reason. I get a VST crash about once every 3 months. I get a Reason crash about once every 2 years.

I can live with once every 3 months (I've been lucky enough not to lose any major song progress so-far).