How many Reasonusers worldwide?

[spacefarmer]

Does anybody know how many registered people use Reason worldwide in the moment?

[Loque]

+1

[spacefarmer]

Ok, bad english...
We often hear, that developers are not interested in RE, cause the "Reasonmarket" is too small.
How many people are registered users in 2016 and how many does it need to be enough?
Any information about that?

[4filegate]

We often hear, that developers are not interested in RE, cause the "Reasonmarket" is too small.

it's RE market should be bigger - it isn't the limited function of SDK?

[Stranger.]

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[selig]

Ok, bad english...
We often hear, that developers are not interested in RE, cause the "Reasonmarket" is too small.
How many people are registered users in 2016 and how many does it need to be enough?
Any information about that?

No public information that I've ever seen.

Remember there are many folks using older versions of Reason, so not EVERY Reason user is included in the RE market. And every Reason owner that CAN use REs doesn't necessarily want to do so. That is to say the RE market is a subset of the Reason 6.5+ market, which is a subset of the entire Reason market, which is a subset of the entire DAW market. And DAWs are NOT considered one of the bigger "sellers" in the computer software market… ;(

Also consider that the smaller the market, the higher the individual price must be to make it worthwhile to developers. And folks already want "app" prices for REs, (which is never going to be possible unless there are as many Reason 6.5+ licenses as there are phones/pads etc.) which means the market could look even LESS attractive from the outside.

[Stranger.]

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[Stranger.]

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[avasopht]

Only ph know the exact size but one VST dev said the rack extension sold next to nothing in comparison.

It's not just the number of reason users but active purchasers of Rack Extensions and their buying needs. Companies have dipped their toes in at the beginning, some have gone on to develop more, some have not. Different strokes, ...

... but unless ph can show other developers there's a viable market there is less incentive to invest the time and effort and it can leave people to guestimate the market size.

Market research can be carried out and there are companies that provide that service.

[The_G]

I assume that Props takes a significant cut of sales made at the Prop Shop, like Apple does with the App store? That could be a major factor keeping "professional" plugin developers out of the RE format.

Think about it: if a developer sells the VST and RE versions of a synth for $40 each, but 25% of the latter goes to Props, then they are making $10 per unit less on REs. It may simply not be worth the cost of porting.

I could be wrong about Props taking a cut, sure, but I suspect they do and also suspect that it's part of the calculus.

[SteveDiverse]

if a developer sells the VST and RE versions of a synth for $40 each, but 25% of the latter goes to Props, then they are making $10 per unit less on REs. It may simply not be worth the cost of porting.

I am not sure, but I think Props actually disclosed the cut they take, and if not the exact amount, at least that they do take a cut.
I won't disclose the cut amount, because I signed up as a developer and am under the NDA.

I suspect they do and also suspect that it's part of the calculus.

It's not calculus, it's simple math.

...and there was a post on the old PUF, when there was a 'glitch' in the software and the number of registered users was dispalyed - and it was over 500,000. But that was forum users, not necessarily users of Reason. (That was approx Reason 6)

[selig]

I assume that Props takes a significant cut of sales made at the Prop Shop, like Apple does with the App store? That could be a major factor keeping "professional" plugin developers out of the RE format.

Think about it: if a developer sells the VST and RE versions of a synth for $40 each, but 25% of the latter goes to Props, then they are making $10 per unit less on REs. It may simply not be worth the cost of porting.

I could be wrong about Props taking a cut, sure, but I suspect they do and also suspect that it's part of the calculus.

Porting is something I'm not familiar with, since I'm a "newb" to the plugin developer world. But I can tell you why I've yet to enter the VST market…

I don't know if you have priced a secure web store, or better yet, price what securing your work via iLok will cost you out of pocket - before you even sell a single product. Don't forget to add in the cost of development tools and support for using them properly. Then factor in how you get your name in front of the very people who are interested in purchasing your product (hint: you won't get any help from the host DAW makers…). We're talking THOUSANDS of $$ just to dip your toe into the big sea of potential customers.

When you have that rather high figure in your head, compare it to the cost to get started with Rack Extensions, which is the cost of a business license where ever you live and the cost of hosting a simple web site. For me it was a whopping $75 for the license, and I can't even remember what I've paid for the web site (and thanks to Wendy Dunham for LOTS of help getting all of that sorted, long story) - all things I'd have to have payed either way!

The same is true of models such as the App Store - you give up a cut but you DO get something valuable in return. IF it wasn't true, the App Store would be a very empty place…

[The_G]

if a developer sells the VST and RE versions of a synth for $40 each, but 25% of the latter goes to Props, then they are making $10 per unit less on REs. It may simply not be worth the cost of porting.

I am not sure, but I think Props actually disclosed the cut they take, and if not the exact amount, at least that they do take a cut.
I won't disclose the cut amount, because I signed up as a developer and am under the NDA.

I suspect they do and also suspect that it's part of the calculus.

It's not calculus, it's simple math.

...and there was a post on the old PUF, when there was a 'glitch' in the software and the number of registered users was dispalyed - and it was over 500,000. But that was forum users, not necessarily users of Reason. (That was approx Reason 6)

By "part of the calculus," I didn't mean differential equations. I meant "part of the calculations that developers make when deciding whether or not to port a VST to RE format."

[The_G]

I assume that Props takes a significant cut of sales made at the Prop Shop, like Apple does with the App store? That could be a major factor keeping "professional" plugin developers out of the RE format.

Think about it: if a developer sells the VST and RE versions of a synth for $40 each, but 25% of the latter goes to Props, then they are making $10 per unit less on REs. It may simply not be worth the cost of porting.

I could be wrong about Props taking a cut, sure, but I suspect they do and also suspect that it's part of the calculus.

Porting is something I'm not familiar with, since I'm a "newb" to the plugin developer world. But I can tell you why I've yet to enter the VST market…

I don't know if you have priced a secure web store, or better yet, price what securing your work via iLok will cost you out of pocket - before you even sell a single product. Don't forget to add in the cost of development tools and support for using them properly. Then factor in how you get your name in front of the very people who are interested in purchasing your product (hint: you won't get any help from the host DAW makers…). We're talking THOUSANDS of $$ just to dip your toe into the big sea of potential customers.

When you have that rather high figure in your head, compare it to the cost to get started with Rack Extensions, which is the cost of a business license where ever you live and the cost of hosting a simple web site. For me it was a whopping $75 for the license, and I can't even remember what I've paid for the web site (and thanks to Wendy Dunham for LOTS of help getting all of that sorted, long story) - all things I'd have to have payed either way!

The same is true of models such as the App Store - you give up a cut but you DO get something valuable in return. IF it wasn't true, the App Store would be a very empty place…

I get that. I think REs are a fantastic format for up and coming developers--for the reasons you cite, it may be a *better* format.

I was speaking more specifically to the question of why more "professional" plugin developers don't develop for the RE format. And these are people who presumably have already invested in a secure web store.

[Stranger.]

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[avasopht]

Many keep sales stats private.

Android app store sales, Nintendo e-shop sales and revenue, actual sales figures of iphone/android apps, and so on. In console land you get weekly sales figures from Chart Track.

When I was working on eshop games I had to spend a lot of time on market research to figure out Nintendo eshop sales, and I managed in a meet with some officials to get a privately held figure very close to my estimate, so you can do a fairly good job of figuring it out with enough publicly held information or through your own surveys if the market size is large enough, which I don't think it's the case here.

Propellerhead will know everything because it runs the only store, plus it captures user metrics so it also knows how often people generally spend using Reason.

Silence means nothing, but people are usually quick to shout out favourable figures from the rooftops, like, were the #1 DAW, etc. or our store paid out XYZ to developers.

[Noplan]

How many Reasonusers worldwide?

well over a thousand!

[stevan]

... not nearly as much as Live (Ableton) users and we all know why

[normen]

Its a very small market, thats the main reason why large developers don't get into it. They have to assign workers to do this work. Most companies don't have "spare" developers roaming about and they're specialized so hiring a new developer for REs would mean they have to at least earn the salary for a programmer via RE sales and that won't happen. Peff once introduced one of the first REs for an introduction price for the first 1000 REs sold - I think that went for at least a year. Funnily, if you're a small company with one developer doing the bulk of the work it becomes more feasible to do REs because you only invest a bit more time for a bit more income.

[chk071]

How many people are registered users in 2016 and how many does it need to be enough?

Only Propellerhead themselves would be able to answer both questions i'm afraid. Not sure what you mean with "enough" though. "Enough" is relative. Noone knows what Propellerhead are up to. Maybe they just want to earn enough to pay their employees. Maybe they want to expand. Maybe they need some more, because they want to do a big marketing campaign. Or buy another company. Who knows really how much "enough" is.

[michal22]

Perhaps a solution that will attract developers and increase market is free Reason 10 ... like Windows 10. Propellerhead earns only 30% of the extensions. The program is free. Shop is growing. Consumers get the naked Reason for free and they only buy the plugs.
In my opinion, such a move would attract consumers and developers. A large market is a lot of competition and low prices plugins - a large number of licenses sold.

[normen]

Perhaps a solution that will attract developers and increase market is free Reason 10 ... like Windows 10. Propellerhead earns only 30% of the extensions. The program is free. Shop is growing. Consumers get the naked Reason for free and they only buy the plugs.
In my opinion, such a move would attract consumers and developers. A large market is a lot of competition and low prices plugins - a large number of licenses sold.

The share is never a problem. Developers know damn well that having a separate company host, distribute and expose your software is well worth that.

[KEVMOVE02]

The software developer only cares about the size of the installed base if there is a possibility that there are not enough users to achieve break even. Once the coding is completed for one platform, it would be a waste of money and resources to not port to additional platforms, especially if consumer base is much larger. The exception to the rule is when you get a bounty for platform exclusives. Even then, you half to quantify whether the bounty is even close to the revenue loss by being available on a single platform. Propellerhead absolutely profits from selling 3rd party content; only they know where the break even point lies. My educated guess is their proprietary Refills, Rack extensions and other content generates enough income that they are not significantly dependent upon that revenue source to keep the doors open. As an aside, asking how many reason users exists worldwide is akin to asking how many iPhones currently have Take and Figure installed (at least a million each).

[Noplan]

Perhaps a solution that will attract developers and increase market is free Reason 10 ... like Windows 10. Propellerhead earns only 30% of the extensions. The program is free. Shop is growing. Consumers get the naked Reason for free and they only buy the plugs.
In my opinion, such a move would attract consumers and developers. A large market is a lot of competition and low prices plugins - a large number of licenses sold.

they have reason essentials for that. It is cheap enough, but they could make it free and i think they will do.

[chk071]

Windows 10 isn't free though. It is free to upgrade from Windows 7 or 8/8.1 for a limited time (1 year), after that people have to pay for Windows 10. AND, it isn't at all clear what the future will hold. Microsoft said there won't be a new version of Windows after 10, and it will continue as "a service". Which probably means that, one day, Windows will be a subscription based system, like Office 365. Actually, that seems to be the way to go, Adobe does the same with Photoshop, and you already see that too with companies doing audio apps, like Cakewalk. Apart from that, why would Propellerhead give away a program which has such a huge base content for free? Doesn't make sense to me. "Attract more consumers and developers" assumes that they'd be doing bad, and that Reason is unpopular. Unless there's any indication for that, i wouldn't know why to assume something like that. And they surely won't be able to live from 30% earnings on the rack extensions, no way.