Sequencer tracks for Combinators can disappear?

[xRwu8]

I'm a newbie with Combinators, so I've just been using some prebuilt Combi instruments lately (e.g. an NN-XT keyboard combi'd with compression, reverb, and delay) and after recording the desired MIDI part for one, I wanted to go about cleaning up the rack. It's pretty standard for me to move any given standalone instrument device (e.g. Thor), as well as its insert effects, into the insert section of that instrument's mix channel, just to make all sound & FX devices easily collapsible.

However, I've just done the same thing with a Combi for the first time - dragged it into the mixer channel's insert section - and it removed the Combi faceplate/controls and broke it down into its component parts. A little annoying, since as far as I can tell it also removed any identification of what Combi setting it used to be, but I simply added a Commentator to label what the original Combi was.

The real problem is that it deleted the sequencer track for that Combinator instrument, and therefore all the MIDI data I recorded. I assume it did this because the Combinator "dissolved" and no longer exists. Is there a workaround for this? Do people with these same OCD organizational methods simply drag the Combinator into the inserts section from the start, create a track for the Combi's base instrument, and record MIDI there?

[tibah]

The idea behind the insert FX section on a mix channel is not to drag instruments in there, as far as I see it anyway. There is also a certain signal flow involved doing this, seen in the mixer. The default chain is dynamics->EQ->inserts. Means, if you have a simple Thor, it will be processed by the SSL comp, EQ and then the stuff you have inside the insert sections. If you keep adding effects directly after the same Thor, it will be pre SSL dynamics, EQ and the stuff in the insert slot.

It is what is says. It's for the inserts to an instrument/device, not really to drag everything into it.

Generally, you don't want to drag your instruments/Combinators into the insert section. You want to have it sit, regularly, under the mix channel and put insert effects into this section. It also behaves like a combinator, giving you the same 4 buttons and 4 rotaries and letting you browse for Combinator effect patches.

In your scenario you uncombined everything and kinda put it together again, just in the wrong place. I asked a somewhat related question a while ago, about how many people actually use this slot and I'm trying to adjust my work-flow a little bit as well, deciding when to put stuff where, but still no instruments inside the insert section.

[selig]

If you save the Combi you can load it into the insert intact. If it's an instrument, you will need to patch the inputs of the Combi into something - anything (like a Spider that's not patched to anything). This will "fool" the insert into allowing it to be added. You'll not have a Combi "note" track, but ALL of the instruments inside CAN have a note track. In other words, you CAN get around these limitations, but each individual must decide if the extra steps are worth it or not!

[xRwu8]

If you save the Combi you can load it into the insert intact. If it's an instrument, you will need to patch the inputs of the Combi into something - anything (like a Spider that's not patched to anything). This will "fool" the insert into allowing it to be added. You'll not have a Combi "note" track, but ALL of the instruments inside CAN have a note track. In other words, you CAN get around these limitations, but each individual must decide if the extra steps are worth it or not!

Thanks for this tip, but I still can't get it to work! I took an Audio Spider and connected it to the Combi Inputs (L & R) of the Factory Combinator "CP80 Stadium" and dragged the combinator into the Inserts section of its Mixer channel, and it removed the combi faceplate and only displayed its component pieces (a microMix, NNXT, Scream4, etc).

Did you mean something else? Sounds like you've gotten this to work before, so I definitely want to learn this "fooling" the insert workaround!

[selig]

If you save the Combi you can load it into the insert intact. If it's an instrument, you will need to patch the inputs of the Combi into something - anything (like a Spider that's not patched to anything). This will "fool" the insert into allowing it to be added. You'll not have a Combi "note" track, but ALL of the instruments inside CAN have a note track. In other words, you CAN get around these limitations, but each individual must decide if the extra steps are worth it or not!

Thanks for this tip, but I still can't get it to work! I took an Audio Spider and connected it to the Combi Inputs (L & R) of the Factory Combinator "CP80 Stadium" and dragged the combinator into the Inserts section of its Mixer channel, and it removed the combi faceplate and only displayed its component pieces (a microMix, NNXT, Scream4, etc).

Did you mean something else? Sounds like you've gotten this to work before, so I definitely want to learn this "fooling" the insert workaround!

If it went in then you got it to work. Otherwise it would not have gone into the insert. But to preserve the Combi programming you need to save the modified patch and then load the patch via the browser.

From there give key focus to the NNXT and record your notes! it may not be worth it in the end, but that's how you do it.