Why is ReBirth Input Machine still in the palette?

[mguh22]

The ReBirth Input Machine has remained within Mac OS X Reason since long after it was ever actually possible to run ReBirth on a Mac.

I've now noticed that it's still there, even on newer builds of Reason 8, even though Reason has gone 64-bit only (and ReBirth is Windows 32-bit ReWire only)!

Why are Propellerheads so sloppy in leaving this now completely broken rack unit in their flagship product?

[TheMiles]

Maybe they want to have the option to make Rebirth compatible with modern Os and integrate it with Reason? Would be cool, though... even cooler would be Rebirth as a RE!

[mguh22]

It seems to me like they've killed ReBirth entirely (the museum is gone now!) but have been too lazy to remove the redundant rack device from their Reason code.

I doubt very much ReBirth will ever be revisited on Intel; especially given there is the ReBirth RB-338 ReFill and now the ABL3 Computer Bassline RE. Those two combined essentially gives you the best of the 808 + 909 ReBirth + modded ReBirth drum samples, plus a 303 emulator that sounds great.

I just hope the next version of Reason finally kills off the deprecated ReBirth Input Machine rack unit from the palette and the context menus.

As an aside, it's also very disappointing from the Props that the iOS version of ReBirth RB-338 doesn't have WAV/AIFF export.

[platzangst]

The reason, I think, is fairly simple: There may very well be someone out there that has old tracks that need the ReBirth program - someone may still be running it. And since PH makes a point of touting Reason's ability to just open up files from even the oldest versions of Reason, they probably will never remove that Rack device unless they absolutely have to.

[True]

The reason, I think, is fairly simple: There may very well be someone out there that has old tracks that need the ReBirth program - someone may still be running it. And since PH makes a point of touting Reason's ability to just open up files from even the oldest versions of Reason, they probably will never remove that Rack device unless they absolutely have to.

But Line6 is going away (and I don't believe that's a de facto rack extension), so wouldn't that essentially be the same thing? I understand the desire to maintain backward compatibility, but considering the device doesn't even function anymore (from what others appear to be saying), seems like they could figure out a better way of handling it than just carrying forward a bunch of dead code.

[platzangst]

But Line6 is going away (and I don't believe that's a de facto rack extension), so wouldn't that essentially be the same thing? I understand the desire to maintain backward compatibility, but considering the device doesn't even function anymore (from what others appear to be saying), seems like they could figure out a better way of handling it than just carrying forward a bunch of dead code.

Line 6 is going away because PH and Yamaha (who recently bought Line 6) apparently can't come to an agreement on continuing their license. ReBirth has no such conflict.

I've never tried to run ReBirth with Reason, and don't use Macs, but in Windows it's possible to run older Windows programs in different modes; that is, if your old Windows95 program doesn't work in Windows 7 as is, you can set your system to run it in an older emulation mode. Could a clever person tinker with that and get ReBirth and R8 to play together? Maybe, maybe not, but taking the Rack device out would absolutely kill any possibility.

Or, perhaps it's simply a matter of letting the old files open with the device, even if ReBirth isn't available. REs have that "cardboard" placeholder, but the ReBirth rack bit is an integral machine, not an RE, and maybe that would cause a crash, to try to summon a device no longer coded in the rack.

My point is, there could easily be reasons to keep the code in, even if the majority of people think they'll never use it.

[zeebot]

It's not exactly doing any harm or crashing the program. It is just a leftover, doesn't bother me one little bit.

[joeyluck]

I bet there's an easter egg hidden within. Maybe it is the key to using Reason as a ReWire master with other DAWs?

[True]

Line 6 is going away because PH and Yamaha (who recently bought Line 6) apparently can't come to an agreement on continuing their license. ReBirth has no such conflict.

My point is that if backward compatibility were such a concern then Line6 would also be a problem, but it's disappearing anyway. Meaning they have figured out a way to open projects without crashing, so that can't be the reason Rebirth remains.

[True]

if your old Windows95 program doesn't work in Windows 7 as is, you can set your system to run it in an older emulation mode. Could a clever person tinker with that and get ReBirth and R8 to play together?

That depends on the old program, as far as getting it to run in Win7 (if it's 16-bit, then you'd need a separate emulator, such as DOS Box, to run it). But if the problem is that Rebirth is strictly 32-bit and R8 is strictly 64-bit, then how would that be possible? If you emulate 32-bit, then your 64-bit program wouldn't run. The emulation would have to take place within Reason itself, and that seems like a lot of hassle for a single device which would undoubtedly provide diminishing returns.

[platzangst]

If you emulate 32-bit, then your 64-bit program wouldn't run.

Really? I seem to recall having run programs in two different modes simultaneously in Win7 (64) ; seemed to work okay, with the only difference being switching to the program running under an older mode meant that the fancier Win7 graphics features became disabled. Granted, there wasn't any inter-program communication. And 64-bit Win7 still runs many 32-bit programs natively, it's really the very older programs that need any mode switching.

It's true that the number of people who actually want to link ReBirth and Reason together at this point is probably very, very small. But as long as there is that possibility, I see no reason to delete the Rack device altogether, especially when the argument for doing so seems to be mostly a matter of aesthetics, i.e, a dislike of clutter or the idea that useless code is taking up a couple kilobytes of extra space.

[ljekio]

I bet there's an easter egg hidden within. Maybe it is the key to using Reason as a ReWire master with other DAWs?

Yes, Im always think about it

[True]

I seem to recall having run programs in two different modes simultaneously in Win7 (64) ; seemed to work okay, with the only difference being switching to the program running under an older mode meant that the fancier Win7 graphics features became disabled. Granted, there wasn't any inter-program communication. And 64-bit Win7 still runs many 32-bit programs natively, it's really the very older programs that need any mode switching.

Windows can emulate 32-bit when necessary. Emulation is handled by a separate process (WOW64) in Windows -- it is not native to Windows itself. A 32-bit program will only run on a 32-bit platform. Same for 64-bit and 16-bit. That's why emulation is necessary. In the old days, many programs came with both 16-bit and 32-bit versions. Later, it was even more common to have a 32-bit and 64-bit version of a program (16-bit programs are completely incompatible with modern versions of Windows, which is why separate emulators, such as DOS Box, are necessary to run them). Windows stores those in different places to prevent them from stepping on each other.

I have not researched this thoroughly, but the claim has been made here that Reason 8 is only 64-bit. That means that there is no 32-bit version for Windows to run. The claim has also been made here that Rebirth is 32-bit only. That makes it incompatible with 64-bit Reason. Assuming that all this is the case and that the Rebirth device is a 32-bit device, then Windows would have to run Reason in 64-bit mode while at the same time using WOW64 to emulate 32-bit for the Rebirth device inside Reason. I do not believe Windows has the capability to do that. Maybe it could be accomplished via multi-threading and Rebirth having its own thread? I don't know. But if not, then the only way for Rebirth to work would be for Reason itself to emulate a 32-bit environment. That's a significant development task. Assuming Reason doesn't already do that, I don't see Props wanting to add that as a feature that very few people would use -- especially since they seem more focused on new customers than old ones.

[submonsterz]

I seem to recall having run programs in two different modes simultaneously in Win7 (64) ; seemed to work okay, with the only difference being switching to the program running under an older mode meant that the fancier Win7 graphics features became disabled. Granted, there wasn't any inter-program communication. And 64-bit Win7 still runs many 32-bit programs natively, it's really the very older programs that need any mode switching.

Windows can emulate 32-bit when necessary. Emulation is handled by a separate process (WOW64) in Windows -- it is not native to Windows itself. A 32-bit program will only run on a 32-bit platform. Same for 64-bit and 16-bit. That's why emulation is necessary. In the old days, many programs came with both 16-bit and 32-bit versions. Later, it was even more common to have a 32-bit and 64-bit version of a program (16-bit programs are completely incompatible with modern versions of Windows, which is why separate emulators, such as DOS Box, are necessary to run them). Windows stores those in different places to prevent them from stepping on each other.

I have not researched this thoroughly, but the claim has been made here that Reason 8 is only 64-bit. That means that there is no 32-bit version for Windows to run. The claim has also been made here that Rebirth is 32-bit only. That makes it incompatible with 64-bit Reason. Assuming that all this is the case and that the Rebirth device is a 32-bit device, then Windows would have to run Reason in 64-bit mode while at the same time using WOW64 to emulate 32-bit for the Rebirth device inside Reason. I do not believe Windows has the capability to do that. Maybe it could be accomplished via multi-threading and Rebirth having its own thread? I don't know. But if not, then the only way for Rebirth to work would be for Reason itself to emulate a 32-bit environment. That's a significant development task. Assuming Reason doesn't already do that, I don't see Props wanting to add that as a feature that very few people would use -- especially since they seem more focused on new customers than old ones.

Rebirth runs sweet as a nut on win 7 64bit . Reason 7.1 64 bit . I posted a you tube vid of just that using a 32 bit bridge ages ago. I'm on win 10 now nor really checked to see if it still works via bridge yet . But rebirth and reason linked and worked flawlessly in win 7 64bit on pc I can confirm that for a fact .

[True]

Rebirth runs sweet as a nut on win 7 64bit . Reason 7.1 64 bit . I posted a you tube vid of just that using a 32 bit bridge ages ago. I'm on win 10 now nor really checked to see if it still works via bridge yet . But rebirth and reason linked and worked flawlessly in win 7 64bit on pc I can confirm that for a fact .

That's cool. I was just going by what people have said here. Apparently Props are on the ball with this, so there likely isn't a problem.

[mguh22]

Can you share the video again of how you are linking 32-bit ReBirth with 64-bit Reason in Windows via some sort of bit bridge?

[submonsterz]

Can you share the video again of how you are linking 32-bit ReBirth with 64-bit Reason in Windows via some sort of bit bridge?

I explained it all on PUF how to
the vid was just a proof of concept showing it works as I said and run the mods as I show flicking through was just as I say a proof of concept at the time for the ney sayers at that time in a particular thread there . I'll private pm ya if I look back how exactly I had it set up on windows 7 if I try to do it on win 10 ok.

[mguh22]

I don't run Windows, I was just interested what additional software you used to bridge the 32-bit ReWire into 64-bit Reason! Is it the Japanese program called 'ReWire 64-32 Bridge' that I've seen on the 'net elsewhere?

[submonsterz]

I don't run Windows, I was just interested what additional software you used to bridge the 32-bit ReWire into 64-bit Reason! Is it the Japanese program called 'ReWire 64-32 Bridge' that I've seen on the 'net elsewhere?

I use something a guy I know programed himself for this but I'm not allowed to share it I'm afraid.
but however I did today get it all up and running in win 10 pro 64bit with reason 7.1 64 bit and rb 338 2.0 and downloaded out of the need to test the Japanese program and it works a charm with that too.
so rebirth is still very much alive in the reason environment so the input machine is still needed by others I would presume .

[Creativemind]

8 words - REBIRTH AS A RACK EXTENSION WOULD BE AWESOME!

[tiker01]

Can you share the video again of how you are linking 32-bit ReBirth with 64-bit Reason in Windows via some sort of bit bridge?

I explained it all on PUF how to
the vid was just a proof of concept showing it works as I said and run the mods as I show flicking through was just as I say a proof of concept at the time for the ney sayers at that time in a particular thread there . I'll private pm ya if I look back how exactly I had it set up on windows 7 if I try to do it on win 10 ok.

Deadmaus was looking for Rebirth last week or so. He even tweeted PH about it. Perhaps you could talk to your friend and ask him to share his utility as I think there is quite a high demand to run Rebirth in x64 systems.

[submonsterz]

Can you share the video again of how you are linking 32-bit ReBirth with 64-bit Reason in Windows via some sort of bit bridge?

I explained it all on PUF how to
the vid was just a proof of concept showing it works as I said and run the mods as I show flicking through was just as I say a proof of concept at the time for the ney sayers at that time in a particular thread there . I'll private pm ya if I look back how exactly I had it set up on windows 7 if I try to do it on win 10 ok.

Deadmaus was looking for Rebirth last week or so. He even tweeted PH about it. Perhaps you could talk to your friend and ask him to share his utility as I think there is quite a high demand to run Rebirth in x64 systems.

no need I wont go into why he wont share with reason users but he wont.
but this jap one works flawlessly its all you need
http://dgo.xsrv.jp/alipapa/rewire6432bridge130.zip

[Creativemind]

They shouldn't have discontinued it.