Fighting latency

[submonsterz]

To all about my writing I'm partially dyslexic sorry my writing is hard to understand I do my best.
I have mentioned it.many times before here obviously not been remembered by some I have stated that too several times in the past.
And also to Mr heal yes I'm using my.phone mostly when.on nere. And being partially dyslexic it's auto correct is apparently bad at best for most normal people
But for me it makes my bad and then then gives it extra bad on top it does not help in my situation to be honest I think I even confuse the phone .
My first language is English but dyslexicxia is a disability not a language thing.
Hope that clears that all up for most of you now.

[submonsterz]

It can be your host I thought too by the way if the host don't use midi time stamping in the midi buffer or is incorrectly using it so having a rock solid clock isn't allways a fix . There's a few ways jitter can be caused from what I've learnt over time ...
In fact thinking about it I don't think I ever had the problem in the amiga or atari falcon think thier clocks were probally more rock solid back then and dealt with midi buffers etc a lot better .

So you're talking about MIDI, not audio jitter. Again, the normal MIDI connection gets about a millisecond of variance for every note played. Especially if you have an oldschool setup with synths etc. this is a very old and known issue. And it doesn't have anything to do with audio sync really.

As for your other comments I find your posts hard to understand - you don't like to read the manual and want a video, alright. Regarding general support for the device I answered every single support request I got via my site in less than a day so I don't follow you there (and also don't see any mail from you in my inbox). The rest I found hard to decipher apart from an undertone of disliking me personally. Its funny how threads mentioning the VMG on this forum lately become more about me than the device or actual issues with it..

I have read your manual and find it very lacking to be honest it's very sparse to say the least no working examples of how to use the device and how to work.out the latency in what order or how to anything accept one channel at a time it does not explain a full song comprised of many tracks all with differing latency from multiple effect chains etc etc and how to go from a to b to get the right settings for the channels not one example at all of that . I remember you being asked back on the PUF about how to use it by many users wanting simple answers and examples you never actually did do that I remember people asking for vids to show how it's done in a song ie how to treat many tracks at once to get the latency right for all you never did that either. I don't hate you Norman not at all but I say as a dev you do not sell your product down the right line when instead of doing these things you would rather act like it's a personal.assult on yourself it's not if I was to personally assult a person I do that in the street in a far different way than with words !!. I use a lot of obviously.latent effects ie polar and filters etc and I'm finding the plug does not solve the issues with varying latencies and really on what you or selig say it's the best in reason it's because it's all reason has and it's not.good enough it.ain't pdc and can't be pdc . Look at reapers pdc it even allows automation synching etc etc. I was sitting with your device getting strange readings for ages till I gave up on it at one point until euhm and I was in the thread about it and discovered measuring via the combi was giving a 50 reading on your device as standard . Even that info should had been in your manual for reference maybe.
And on talking about jitter he was talking about using a midi synth so of course I was referring to even if you have the audio latency sorted there's still other latent shinanigans go on via the midi side that can cause grief that way which your device cannot correct f you experience it at any point. Jitter really needs to be handled mainly at host lvl unless I'm totally bonkers there.

[Ostermilk]

If you have trouble using VMG-01 you could use this widely used app (on Windows anyway) instead.

http://www.oblique-audio.com/free/rtlutility

The setup is the same as for VMG-01, basically loop your audio through your signal path back into the inputs. I personally prefer using VMG-01 for this purpose simply because the setup procedure is identical but it is already measuring inline when I'm using Reason so why would I use an external app to do the same thing? They both use a clock to calculate the time it takes for a broadband signal (usually a click) to do the full round-trip so you'll get the same results with either, they'll both suffer the same disadvantage as well whereby if the signal gets so badly mangled through the signal path they might not be able to detect the returning signal well enough to give a reading, so in either case don't overprocess the detection signal until you've worked out the latency figure.

For a midi out / audio in scenario the procedure is one I've used for several years regardless of the hardware or DAW involved which is simply to setup a midi note on a midi lane and then record the resultant audio and simply measure the time difference to calculate required amount of movement either to move the midi or audio to get it on. With most midi keyboards the delay is often negligible.

Jitter is another thing altogether whether you are talking about audio or midi jitter usually in a Host/DAW context the most common form of jitter is due to errors in the correalation between the audio and midi streams. Some hosts handle it better than others I'm not sure how well Reason does on that score as I've never found it to be bad enough to investigate further but where this does happen and you can't do anything else about it reducing the audio buffer size will likely mitigate it to some degree as some midi events may be quantized more than others The sample rate/buffer size of the audio stream in these cases will dictate the maximum amount of jitter.

I've certainly never run into a problem with a single hardware synth into Reason though so unless you are really are experiencing some wacky timing caused by jitter you could end up spending a lot of time trying to rectify a non-issue that's been raised here, from what I can tell, just for the sake of argument.

So yes to recap I'd recommend using VMG-01 for an audio stream containing outboard fx, and aligning the audio and midi by the differencing method I mentioned or the VMG method Normen gave earlier for an outboard synth (if required).

[Ostermilk]

Aha, here's an article talking about the kind of 'jitter' I was referring to here.

It's a few years old so some of the information alluding to specific DAW's maybe out of date. In any case it only applies when midi is being recorded 'live' into the DAW not when the sequencer is being used to play the midi.

http://expressiveness.org/2012/12/04/midi-jitter

Actually I may even run some tests in the future to see how well or badly Reason performs in this regard but it will probably have to wait until I have a day where sticking forks in my eye is on the agenda before it happens, as like I said I honestly can't remember an occasion where it's caused an issue for me to date.

[normen]

I remember you being asked back on the PUF about how to use it by many users wanting simple answers and examples you never actually did do that I remember people asking for vids to show how it's done in a song ie how to treat many tracks at once to get the latency right for all you never did that either.

The only thing thats correct about this is that I didn't do a video, I always explain or give examples when I get a question - as I did here for the implicit question on how to measure an external MIDI synth being routed back into Reason.

Anyway, good to know its nothing personal, I'll try my best and re-read your posts to understand what you mean in the future but given that I am not a native speaker that can be hard sometimes.

[ljekio]

A little more about the latency.
Internal commutations also give some delays.
I measured some connections and internal recording ability.
Project with measuring attached.

del research2.zip

(177.26 KiB) Downloaded 25 times

p.s.

For recording you can adjust the Recording Latency Compensation.

I do not remember that this stuff worked for me in R7.
Does it works now, in the R8.3?