[Q]Adjust Grid/Tempo Lane to audio track

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exe135
Posts: 36
Joined: 01 Jun 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

Hi,
I'm stuck with a problem. I have a Song (Voice, Piano) where I want to re-record the piano part. There is quite a bit of rubato, ie tempo changes. When recording by ear, things won't get as tight as the original recording. I tried it to record midi, then manually moving the fine adjustments with "snap" disabled. But it's fiddly and in the end, I would like to be able to also adjust the grid accordingly (to see note length properly, eventually able to quantize, etc)
I would like to adjust reasons tempo lane to the song, I could "tap" it, but if I do (with timestretch deactivated) reason starts to calculate and skip around every time I hit the tap button.
There also is no function such as "adjust grid to slice markers"?
Any other ways how to do that?
Something like this?
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation? ... ap.06.html

Thanks!

Mich01
Posts: 40
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

The way I would do it, is to make an automationtrack for Tempo. Choose the overall tempo that comes nearest by the tempo of the audio track. Then adjust the tempo manually by creating tempo changes in the automation track. It's a bit of work, but it does the job well. Afterwards you can record midi events and quantize them on the grid, since the grid varies with te tempochanges of the existing audio.

Greetz Michel

exe135
Posts: 36
Joined: 01 Jun 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

Thanks,

the "manually change tempo in the automation lane" thing is the ugly thing. Can't use the Tap button because of the skipping and "drawing" is very fiddly and difficult to get musically right. I would need some kind of real time control like I found this tutorial for reaper
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/a ... h-0311.htm
I'm afraid this isn't possible in reason.

Ronin
Posts: 182
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

Try selecting all the audio clips, right click and select disable stretch while you set the tap tempo.

exe135
Posts: 36
Joined: 01 Jun 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

That is unfortunately not possible, as with stretch disabled the audio starts to jump around as soon as you try to tap the beat and "Background analysis" image showing etc.

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selig
Moderator
Posts: 7253
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

Tap tempo only sets the base tempo value - it doesn't generate a tempo map.

For that there are a few options. You can either record your taps as an audio track, disable stretch, then insert tempo changes to line up the bars to the recorded taps. There is also a video Ryan from Propellerhead created that shows an alternative method (can't for the life of me find this video - anyone remember this?).

Either approach works, but each have their advantages/disadvantages IMO. Even with functions that try to "automatically" create a tempo map from clicks/taps, you often still need to go in and check each beat for absolute certainty that the process made the correct decisions, especially with large amounts of rubato in the original performance in my experience.
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

exe135
Posts: 36
Joined: 01 Jun 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

You can either record your taps as an audio track, disable stretch, then insert tempo changes to line up the bars to the recorded taps.
Yes, thanks! That's indeed a possible workaround if I understand it correctly, using the recorded clicks as a visual reference for how the tempotrack should be automated. Still rather inconvenient, but I guess you're right, even automatic systems need manual checking.
In the meantime I have the temp track more or less adjusted to the music, but that was no fun. For the future, I think recording with (multiple) click tracks would be better.

How are the "pros" doing that? For example matching an orchestral piece to a grid. No grid at all would be heaven, but it's necessary sometimes, when multitrack recording. I heared good things about digital performer and it's capabilities in that regard, but I tried the demo, and while the score notation is cool, it crashed three times in the first hour, and that was a turn-off. (and it's rather complicated altogether)

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selig
Moderator
Posts: 7253
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 10 Nov 2015

exe135 wrote:
You can either record your taps as an audio track, disable stretch, then insert tempo changes to line up the bars to the recorded taps.
Yes, thanks! That's indeed a possible workaround if I understand it correctly, using the recorded clicks as a visual reference for how the tempotrack should be automated. Still rather inconvenient, but I guess you're right, even automatic systems need manual checking.
In the meantime I have the temp track more or less adjusted to the music, but that was no fun. For the future, I think recording with (multiple) click tracks would be better.

How are the "pros" doing that? For example matching an orchestral piece to a grid. No grid at all would be heaven, but it's necessary sometimes, when multitrack recording. I heared good things about digital performer and it's capabilities in that regard, but I tried the demo, and while the score notation is cool, it crashed three times in the first hour, and that was a turn-off. (and it's rather complicated altogether)
As I previously alluded to, I've had to do this to create MIDI scores for adding live strings to non click track recordings. In Pro Tools you first record a conductor track by tapping MIDI notes or create an audio track (a pencil/pen on a CD case with a Shure 57 works wonders), playing along to the recording (then carefully editing the performance to ensure each click falls directly on the desired beat). Figuring out long pauses (fermatas) is often a very painful experience, since the easiest way would be to insert multiple bars - but that won't read well on paper - UGG! Next you use a part of Beat Detective that allows you to map the notes/clicks to create a tempo map. But it is VERY finicky. First you have to know how many bars there are or it won't calculate properly (not easy to do without carefully counting as you listen back to the recording - adding a bar for the count off and one at the end). Then there are the bugs - bugs that leave beats out occasionally. And while there are workarounds for these bugs, they only work some of the time. Bottom line: the more rubato the track, the less likely you can easily generate a quick tempo map with this "automated" process.

In some ways and in some cases it's actually quick and definitely safer to do it manually, sad to say. The advantages to the manual approach are being assured it's correct when you're done!
Selig Audio, LLC

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