VST Via External MIDI Device Issue

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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

Hopefully, I can explain this understandably.

I have a VST host, Cantabile. Into it, I've loaded a VST. I'm using loopMIDI to enable my MIDI keyboard connected to Reason to send MIDI notes to Cantabile and the VST. So far so good.

I've loaded an External MIDI Device in Reason and set it to the loopMIDI port for the MIDI keyboard. I wish to be able to process the sounds created by the VST, so I also created a new Mix Channel and routed the Audio Input from Reason's Hardware Interface to the input of the new Mix Channel. Again, so far, so good.

Now, when I load an effect device into the Mix Channel as an insert effect, it does indeed effect the signal coming from the VST.

The issue is that somewhere, there is a "parallel" signal coming from the VST that does not get processed. It remains audibly unprocessed. This "parallel" signal's volume is not affecting by adjusting the level on the Mix Channel.

How do I eliminate this parallel signal so that everything from the VST goes through my processing path?
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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EnochLight
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09 Nov 2015

jonheal wrote:Hopefully, I can explain this understandably.

I have a VST host, Cantabile. Into it, I've loaded a VST. I'm using loopMIDI to enable my MIDI keyboard connected to Reason to send MIDI notes to Cantabile and the VST. So far so good.

I've loaded an External MIDI Device in Reason and set it to the loopMIDI port for the MIDI keyboard. I wish to be able to process the sounds created by the VST, so I also created a new Mix Channel and routed the Audio Input from Reason's Hardware Interface to the input of the new Mix Channel. Again, so far, so good.

Now, when I load an effect device into the Mix Channel as an insert effect, it does indeed effect the signal coming from the VST.

The issue is that somewhere, there is a "parallel" signal coming from the VST that does not get processed. It remains audibly unprocessed. This "parallel" signal's volume is not affecting by adjusting the level on the Mix Channel.

How do I eliminate this parallel signal so that everything from the VST goes through my processing path?
How are you routing your audio loopback? Is this on PC or OSX?
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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

This is on Windows. I use Jack for audio loopback.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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submonsterz
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09 Nov 2015

jonheal wrote:Hopefully, I can explain this understandably.

I have a VST host, Cantabile. Into it, I've loaded a VST. I'm using loopMIDI to enable my MIDI keyboard connected to Reason to send MIDI notes to Cantabile and the VST. So far so good.

I've loaded an External MIDI Device in Reason and set it to the loopMIDI port for the MIDI keyboard. I wish to be able to process the sounds created by the VST, so I also created a new Mix Channel and routed the Audio Input from Reason's Hardware Interface to the input of the new Mix Channel. Again, so far, so good.

Now, when I load an effect device into the Mix Channel as an insert effect, it does indeed effect the signal coming from the VST.

The issue is that somewhere, there is a "parallel" signal coming from the VST that does not get processed. It remains audibly unprocessed. This "parallel" signal's volume is not affecting by adjusting the level on the Mix Channel.

How do I eliminate this parallel signal so that everything from the VST goes through my processing path?
Check ya sound card that the vst is not being monitored via the wave driver or that you may need to give it a different asio out to what reason is using . I'd start there on card settings .
Last edited by submonsterz on 09 Nov 2015, edited 1 time in total.

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submonsterz
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09 Nov 2015

What I just said probally irrelavent as see ya just posted you use jack . I don't use it so I don't know about how you have it set up . I work from my card asio .

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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

For clarity, here is the rear view of the Rack. I am arpeggiating the VST.

Image

I'm not sure what to check on my audio interface (Scarlett 2i2).
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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ljekio
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09 Nov 2015

You can to use Reaper's Rearoute ASIO driver for stabile and low latency connections between Reason and VST-fx.

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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

Latency is not a problem with my current setup. The "problem," if I can even call it a problem is that it that sound from the VST seems to be taking two paths into Reason, one of which is passing through my effects processing and one which bypasses it altogether. I want to identify this bypassing path and do something about it. Also for reference is a screenshot of my routing in Jack:

Image
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

I think I possibly understand what is going on here. I think I was under the impression that the External MIDI Instrument (and Jack and loopMIDI) made using VSTs with Reason a little more seamless that it actually is.

This is my guess as to what is happening: I think that Jack "branches" the audio from Cantabile/VST. One branch goes straight to the audio interface. The other branch passes through Reason. I am guess that the "parallel" non-processed audio I am hearing is the first branch, completely external to Reason, and that the only way to eliminate is to turn off Cantaible/VST. Doing so would make my MIDI track silent, so that means I must perform all of the desired processing to the MIDI track first, and then record the MIDI track to a corresponding audio track when I am satisfied with the processing of the MIDI track.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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Raveshaper
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09 Nov 2015

It is possible that all you need to do is turn on the "Insert Pre" button at the top of the channel strip in Reason.

Beyond that, you may want to experiment with turning Exclusive mode on inside of Jack, but it looks like you have fiddled with that already.
:reason: :ignition: :re: :refillpacker: Enhanced by DataBridge v5

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pjeudy
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09 Nov 2015

jonheal wrote:This is on Windows. I use Jack for audio loopback.
cool...thx Jon ! I also use Loop Midi...but didn't know about Jack!
My opinion is that Propellerhead REASON needs a complete rewrite!
P.S: people should stop saying "No it won't happen" when referring to a complete rewrite of REASON. I have 3 letters for ya....VST
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:53 pm

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jonheal
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09 Nov 2015

SOLVED.

It was as I expected. Jack was allowing Cantabile to send audio directly to the audio interface as well as to Reason. For those working in a similar way with VSTs, I disconnected the connection from Cantabile to System as indicated by the arrows below:

Image

Now the only sound I hear is what is running through Reason. This is now total flexibility in processing the output of the VST as MIDI information. Awesome!!
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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