Do You Get Replies From Propellerhead?

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 08 Nov 2015

Hi All!

Do people here get replies from Propellerheads when you mail them?

I get an e-mail saying:-

"Thanks for contacting Propellerhead Software support. Your e-mail has been received, and we'll get back to you as soon as we can.
While you're waiting for a reply, you might want to check out the support FAQs on the site here:
http://www.propellerheads.se/support/
Many of the most common issues are covered here.
Otherwise, sit tight, and we'll get to you as fast as we can."

I have e-mailed feature wants / suggestions a couple of times and heard nothing back. I have been tempted to start a poll on here for feature suggestions so we can get a decent indication of what's needed next. You can only have 10 categories in a poll on here. I can list 60 odd feature suggestions and I know with things other people have mentioned, there's around 80. I would love to do a poll for each window, Sequencer, Rack, Mixer and e-mail the link to the props.

Anyway, back to the original question, has anyone had any feedback when e-mailing the props with feature suggestions? I hear they're generally very tight lipped aren't they.

Also, was wondering if anyone had any experience with other DAW software companies on e-mailing feature requests and getting replies, such as Image-Line, AVID, Steinberg or Ableton.

Thanks!
:reason:

Reason 10.2

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bpmorton
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Post 08 Nov 2015

I bet they get those kind of emails all the time and don't have the manpower to respond to them. My take on it is the folks at Propellerheads are aware of features that people want and that are standard on other platforms. Their goal surely must be to grow their business so they should be adding those most requested features in a logical order. Yes, version 8 was a disappointment to a lot of users but it looked to me like they did a lot of work under the hood to make way for further expansion and the features that people want.

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

I've had replies back when beta testing but other than that no. On the Feature Suggestion forum I never once received a reply from PH. To my knowledge very few people did. I don't even recall any PH input into the gargantuan MIDI Out thread on there.

As the previous guy said, they already know what Reason needs. For the most part the Feature Suggestion inbox looks like this:

Image

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selig
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Post 08 Nov 2015

Creativemind wrote:…I have been tempted to start a poll on here for feature suggestions so we can get a decent indication of what's needed next.
Why would "we" need to know what's needed next? Just curious…
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

selig wrote:
Creativemind wrote:…I have been tempted to start a poll on here for feature suggestions so we can get a decent indication of what's needed next.
Why would "we" need to know what's needed next? Just curious…
:)
Well we know, although it differs by user.

I think it would be good to know what is coming so we can see if it is worth hanging on or if it's time to move to another system better suited to whatever needs we have. I think a roadmap would be useful for some features. The likelihood of this happening is practically zero though.

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selig
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Post 08 Nov 2015

dioxide wrote:
selig wrote:
Creativemind wrote:…I have been tempted to start a poll on here for feature suggestions so we can get a decent indication of what's needed next.
Why would "we" need to know what's needed next? Just curious…
:)
Well we know, although it differs by user.

I think it would be good to know what is coming so we can see if it is worth hanging on or if it's time to move to another system better suited to whatever needs we have. I think a roadmap would be useful for some features. The likelihood of this happening is practically zero though.
Exactly - and if the DID give us a road map we'd bitch like hell each time they failed in any way to deliver on the "promise", no matter how many times they informed us it was "only a guideline". Even RE developers that don't get a product to market within two months of a "teaser" get treated like they have fallen off the face of the earth if they don't deliver.

I can totally understand why they seem to feel it's better to save resources (and face) and not say anything rather than try to figure out how best to reveal what's in the pipeline.
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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tiker01
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Post 08 Nov 2015

Where would be the impact if everybody would know what is coming?
    
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normen
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Post 08 Nov 2015

Feature requests - being a software developer myself the most courteous answer I could imagine would be "Thanks, we'll consider your idea." A more honest answer might be "ORLY?" or "Right..." ;) Starting to discuss the pros and cons or actual implementation problems/details would be a waste of time/resources.

The "impact" of a roadmap would be (as Giles indicated) that nobody can look into the future or foresee every possible problem with implementing some feature. So if theres issues or other developments make the feature in question less feasible you'd get discussion or people outright trying to sue because they argue "I only bought it because you promised this feature" or some BS like that. Some people are on the border of doing that without any promises. "Yo, I bought all updates since 2.5 and you still don't have feature X that Live/Fruity/Logic/Whatever has, you suck!"

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

selig wrote:Exactly - and if the DID give us a road map we'd bitch like hell each time they failed in any way to deliver on the "promise", no matter how many times they informed us it was "only a guideline". Even RE developers that don't get a product to market within two months of a "teaser" get treated like they have fallen off the face of the earth if they don't deliver.

I can totally understand why they seem to feel it's better to save resources (and face) and not say anything rather than try to figure out how best to reveal what's in the pipeline.
:)
Well choose whatever it is carefully. But set a date for it.
If you haven't announced a date, you're not serious.

Pick a date. It can be far in the future. Too far, and we'll all know that you're merely stalling. A real date, a date we can live with and a date you can deliver on.

If your project can't pass this incredibly simple test, it's not a project.

Deliver whatever it is you say you're working on on the date you said you would, regardless of what external factors interfere. Deliver it even if you don't think it's perfect. You picked the date.

And as a professional, the career-making habit is this: once you set a date, never miss a date.
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog ... -date.html

Last time they were quiet we assumed they were working on Reason. Wrong! They were planning Take and Discover. So maybe it's time for a roadmap? Choosing the easy option of staying quiet isn't always the best option.

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

tiker01 wrote:Where would be the impact if everybody would know what is coming?
So that the people who are waiting for certain features can plan their next year or two. Some might decide to purchase certain software, others to switch DAW. Acting all mysterious when there are so many different expectations isn't a good move IMO. You're not Santa Claus and we're not three year olds. We're adults who want the most from our music making time.

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

normen wrote:Feature requests - being a software developer myself the most courteous answer I could imagine would be "Thanks, we'll consider your idea." A more honest answer might be "ORLY?" or "Right..." ;) Starting to discuss the pros and cons or actual implementation problems/details would be a waste of time/resources.

The "impact" of a roadmap would be (as Giles indicated) that nobody can look into the future or foresee every possible problem with implementing some feature. So if theres issues or other developments make the feature in question less feasible you'd get discussion or people outright trying to sue because they argue "I only bought it because you promised this feature" or some BS like that. Some people are on the border of doing that without any promises. "Yo, I bought all updates since 2.5 and you still don't have feature X that Live/Fruity/Logic/Whatever has, you suck!"
There doesn't need to be any discussion with users about how things are implemented, just an indication of what will be worked on. A statement from PH, not a request for user collaboration. A simple disclaimer / warning is enough to stop anyone suing and even internet moaners will have been pre-warned and so should stop moaning. At this stage we have no idea at all what will be included in R9, R10 or versions beyond that. So if you're waiting for something specific you may be waiting many years. Remember how long it took for Audio input and MIDI out? Some of use stuck it out but many didn't and I don't blame them.

Setting a roadmap is something that other companies have done so it isn't something so outlandish. In this case I think it would show a respect for the userbase to at least tell them what is coming.

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Tincture
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Post 08 Nov 2015

It has been an eye opener for me since officially joining the Reason owners club how much people expect from future updates. I know there's competition and everyone's free to move platform etc but it does seem that music software gets this treatment that other products don't. It may be because of the upgrade discount that previous owners get that makes them feel entitled to know where the product is going? But this is mistaken surely? It's a discount from the full purchase price. Don't like R8 ... Don't pay the upgrade. Don't like R9 ... Etc. When I bought Reason I bought it because I liked what it did. I didn't think I had a right to know what the next version might contain.

I find the whole thing interesting but a bit confounding. I didn't really think the feature set of R8 really worked for me at the pricepoint so I haven't got it.
But I don't think that entitles me to expect what I personally want for R9. My last paid upgrade was R7. I was happy with it. I'm still happy with it. If R9 doesn't have features I want, I won't buy it but if miraculously the next version of ableton does then I might buy that. It does seem to me that music software gets some undeserved pressures.

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

A good example of where PH might want to break their silence is the removal of the Line6 devices (an issue that doesn't affect me). They've told users that the devices will be removed but that is all. Wouldn't it be better if they'd given some indication of what is going to happen? Will the device simply vanish from songs as they are opened in R9?

My guess is that PH know what they are going to do, but haven't released the information yet. It's of no interest to competitors, only the userbase. So if you know, tell the people who it will affect!

Anyhow this is going off the point. The general point is PH's unresponsiveness. I can completely understand why they don't wade into feature discussions but that doesn't mean they can't publish plans that are fixed or as close as can be.

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dioxide
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Post 08 Nov 2015

Tincture wrote:It has been an eye opener for me since officially joining the Reason owners club how much people expect from future updates. I know there's competition and everyone's free to move platform etc but it does seem that music software gets this treatment that other products don't. It may be because of the upgrade discount that previous owners get that makes them feel entitled to know where the product is going? But this is mistaken surely? It's a discount from the full purchase price. Don't like R8 ... Don't pay the upgrade. Don't like R9 ... Etc. When I bought Reason I bought it because I liked what it did. I didn't think I had a right to know what the next version might contain.

I find the whole thing interesting but a bit confounding. I didn't really think the feature set of R8 really worked for me at the pricepoint so I haven't got it.
But I don't think that entitles me to expect what I personally want for R9. My last paid upgrade was R7. I was happy with it. I'm still happy with it. If R9 doesn't have features I want, I won't buy it but if miraculously the next version of ableton does then I might buy that. It does seem to me that music software gets some undeserved pressures.
The pressure from myself is that I want to stay in the PH system. I think REs are a good system and I'm more or less content to live with the reduced number of plugins even though it is frustrating at times as there are things that would be useful to me*. The other options just seem to be a lot easier and better on other fronts so there is quite a lot pulling me towards another DAW. Basically I am here on the internet moaning because I am a fan of PH's work in the past. While at times in the past they have been slow and uncommunicative it's frustrating to
see them also take their eye of the ball (Reason) and pursue other avenues that aren't of interest to many Reason users. The change in direction just makes it seem like it's going to be even longer before Reason sees the work in needs.

*Rewire is an option in the studio but a DAW+Reason for live work isn't a situation I want to get into.

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Tincture
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Post 08 Nov 2015

I can understand your POV, I own a lot of REs myself so would hope to stick with Reason. I just don't feel I have any right to know what to expect from a product I haven't bought yet. As for keeping up/falling behind ... Again I think it's undeserved pressure. I'm a hobbyist but if I was a pro and thought another daw had stuff I needed, I'd go and buy that daw not fret about whether they might ever be included in Reason. I know, it's all about expenditure/value/perceived worth etc but for all products all you can do is assess them for your needs at that time then buy or not. I think the roadmap thing isn't really a fair expectation.

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jonheal
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Post 08 Nov 2015

dioxide wrote:The change in direction just makes it seem like it's going to be even longer before Reason sees the work in needs.
Well, one can hope that when Propellerhead took the mobile plunge, that they made the commitment to hiring additional staff to work on the mobile stuff and didn't simply poach their own Reason coding staff for the job.

A moot point for me, anyway, the lure of another platform, that is. The time it would take to learn another package and get "reasonably" proficient at it exceeds my life expectancy, so I guess I am married to Reason for "richer or poorer," etc.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

Ostermilk
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Post 08 Nov 2015

Tincture wrote:I can understand your POV, I own a lot of REs myself so would hope to stick with Reason. I just don't feel I have any right to know what to expect from a product I haven't bought yet. As for keeping up/falling behind ... Again I think it's undeserved pressure. I'm a hobbyist but if I was a pro and thought another daw had stuff I needed, I'd go and buy that daw not fret about whether they might ever be included in Reason. I know, it's all about expenditure/value/perceived worth etc but for all products all you can do is assess them for your needs at that time then buy or not. I think the roadmap thing isn't really a fair expectation.
I totally share that view.

How I cope with that is to have an annual gear budget and cost it out like that. I don't even feel a need to keep current on a particular application if there's nothing in the upgrades that float my boat. I used to use quite a few different applications but I've been down to 2 for some years now and for around £100 a year I can pretty much cover what I'm prepared to invest in DAW softare, which for me isn't a big outlay for what I get in return in the way of software maintenance. One of the beauties of software is that it doesn't deteriorate over time and there's stuff that I haven't bothered updating since 2005 that still works as well as it did when I first got it so I never think I'm forsaking one thing over another because if something is useful now it still will be even if I get into something else.

The only product loyalty I have is down to whether I'm prepared sacrifice the familiarity of an old friend in order to achieve my intended aims with something new as there's nothing like being familiar with a product as an aid to productivity. Eveb given that though if something isn't cutting it I will drop it in favour of something that fulfils my needs better without too much hesitation. I've never had much time for 'vapourware' or wondering if my needs are likely going to be met by a particular app sometime in the unknown future if there's something out there now that better suits my current needs then I'd probably extend my budget and go for it and forego an upgrade or two on something else for a couple of years to stay within my average annual spend.

None of us knows what the future is going to bring, even developers with a well-defined road map that they are prepared to share are likely to end up taking a few diversions along the way even if they remain headed on their intended course. The here and now is the only thing that anyone can be sure of.

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challism
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Post 08 Nov 2015

I have sent them many emails over the years. I have only had one instance that my emails were being completely ignored. I finally sent a message to their facebook page and got a reply (and some followup action).

I usually get a personal message from someone within a day or two. I sent them a feature request for PX7, and they replied something like "very interesting idea, I will send this to our development department."

I have reported bugs and they have responded. Sometimes asking more questions to duplicate it.

I recently (a week ago) had an issue with my Authorizer/RE licenses, and I must say, Props totally dropped the ball. They responded with a copy/paste answer and it didn't resolve my issue. The support ticket is still open, and they still haven't done anything more to help. I solved the problem myself, but Props don't know it is solved. Yet, they don't offer any help. I'm pretty bummed about that, as I have always had great CS from them in the past.

As for us having any rights to know what is coming.... I think that is a rather entitled attitude. It's not our company. Perhaps if you are a shareholder of the company stock, you deserve to know what they are doing with the next version. But the end users are not entitled to know anything of upcoming features, unless Props chose to tell us. I can completely understand why they would keep development direction under their hat. Most businesses won't offer the general public a full view into their future development plans... it makes sense to keep it secret.

My personal feelings about missing features: I am completely happy with Reason. I have been since Reason 7. Every time they add more stuff, is just an added bonus. I upgraded to 8 because I wanted the new browser and the drag and drop, but the older version (7) wasn't bad at all. But if they decide to never add anything else, I will be happy with Reason 8.3 for many years to come.

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normen
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Post 09 Nov 2015

Just found this, thought it fits somewhat ;)

http://themetapicture.com/software-deve ... -nutshell/

Image

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MSD
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Location: UK

Post 09 Nov 2015

Propellerhead have always liked to keep what they are doing quiet until such a time that they have to let the cat out of the bag, at beta testing time etc. They aren't the only ones tbh, most DAW makers don't announce their intentions in advance. It's good to be able to change direction as and when you need to without having to deal with the torches and pitchforks.

As for emails; I email the props from tome to time, sometimes I get a response and sometimes I don't. Small companies with quite large user bases have to prioritise their communications carefully as they all have other stuff to do; growing beards, posing for blog posts and designing new Reason features etc. If a response is important to you then ask again, if not don't worry about it.
--
Noisemaker...

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CharlyCharlzz
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Post 09 Nov 2015

you would be very surprised by the power of a e-mail if it is send at the right people in a company .
Props , Korg , Roland , Steinberg Moog etc.. are always looking to expand there visions of our vision of there products and what we want or need .
most of them will not mail you back but talk about it in a meeting and tax your idear with no shame since you ask for it LOL
It does not die , it multiplies !

 7.101 and I will upgrade maybe this summer .

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yamguitar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2015

Post 09 Nov 2015

They've always replied to me quickly when I've needed help. One guy in particular even dug up some links to old refills for me that were missing from the site... I've been extremely pleased with the level of attention I've received as a Reason user. I could see where just suggesting features might not always get a response from what is admittedly a relatively small office force.


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