The Refill "Market" is dead!!

[sinnerfire]

First....Refill sales have gone through the floor since the PUF closed, there is no longer a single place were dedicated Reason users can go and hang out, the community has been broken up and now advertising to Reason users is really hard for Refill/soundpack producers.

Second.... The Closed refill format is absolutely F shit..... You are not allowed to change, rearrange or delete anything inside a refill, so you end up with a whole heap of content clogging up your hard drive, stuff you will never use, or if like me, you like organising all you evil synths into one folder and all your best subs into another folder, you cant grab them as a whole, you have to individually save each patch, copy wav files, re assign presets so they know where the corresponding samples are located etc etc etc

BUT.... if i go to Loopmasters, one of the most successful sample companies (ever) and download one of their sample packs, they come packed or unpacked, so i can tailor the pack to fit my needs.

So in a nutshell, nobody's buying refills anymore, Propellerhead have literally destroyed themselves by force feeding us there refill technology.

Refills need to be completely redesigned so they are easier to use, i dont want to open Reason everytime i want to see whats inside the refill, if i buy a sample CD, i take what i want and delete the rest but you cant do that with a refill, not even close.

Not happy

[Jmax]

I've never had a problem with the Refill format. You can do all your file organizing right inside Reason itself on the left hand tab and just add your favorite patches to a folder right, simple enough. Just create a folder called synths and put them all in there.
I've never wanted to delete anything inside a refill, I may not use certain things but I still consider everything part of the full package of that refill. Just like my sample packs I keep everything together. It's also kinda cool that it's just one big file and not a whole bunch of files. But that's Reason, they do everything their own way. On the topic of buying refills, I just bought a bunch of eXodes and others so not sure what you mean by the format is dead.

[submonsterz]

I've never had a problem with the Refill format. You can do all your file organizing right inside Reason itself on the left hand tab and just add your favorite patches to a folder right, simple enough. Just create a folder called synths and put them all in there.
I've never wanted to delete anything inside a refill, I may not use certain things but I still consider everything part of the full package of that refill. Just like my sample packs I keep everything together. It's also kinda cool that it's just one big file and not a whole bunch of files. But that's Reason, they do everything their own way. On the topic of buying refills, I just bought a bunch of eXodes and others so not sure what you mean by the format is dead.

that goes to shit if you delete or move the refills to another drive etc etc.

[submonsterz]

First....Refill sales have gone through the floor since the PUF closed, there is no longer a single place were dedicated Reason users can go and hang out, the community has been broken up and now advertising to Reason users is really hard for Refill/soundpack producers.

Second.... The Closed refill format is absolutely F shit..... You are not allowed to change, rearrange or delete anything inside a refill, so you end up with a whole heap of content clogging up your hard drive, stuff you will never use, or if like me, you like organising all you evil synths into one folder and all your best subs into another folder, you cant grab them as a whole, you have to individually save each patch, copy wav files, re assign presets so they know where the corresponding samples are located etc etc etc

BUT.... if i go to Loopmasters, one of the most successful sample companies (ever) and download one of their sample packs, they come packed or unpacked, so i can tailor the pack to fit my needs.

So in a nutshell, nobody's buying refills anymore, Propellerhead have literally destroyed themselves by force feeding us there refill technology.

Refills need to be completely redesigned so they are easier to use, i dont want to open Reason everytime i want to see whats inside the refill, if i buy a sample CD, i take what i want and delete the rest but you cant do that with a refill, no even close.

Not happy

re`s hit refills hard is my view on dropped sales.
the refill format well its nice but wish there were un-packers as yes its a bind having to take out what you want and repack them into a nice refill of what you want in one box .
I see there used to be unpackers for refills but refill makers and props didn't like the idea of them being made so put a block on them so it seems ........
I don't bother with making or even taking out anything I just have bigger drives to accomodate the bloat I don't need ... sucks but that's props for ya.......

[Exowildebeest]

The fact that the files are locked inside is indeed really, really annoying. I prefer normal zipped folders.

Same with Ableton Packs or whatever they're called though.

[Jmax]

I've never had a problem with the Refill format. You can do all your file organizing right inside Reason itself on the left hand tab and just add your favorite patches to a folder right, simple enough. Just create a folder called synths and put them all in there.
I've never wanted to delete anything inside a refill, I may not use certain things but I still consider everything part of the full package of that refill. Just like my sample packs I keep everything together. It's also kinda cool that it's just one big file and not a whole bunch of files. But that's Reason, they do everything their own way. On the topic of buying refills, I just bought a bunch of eXodes and others so not sure what you mean by the format is dead.

that goes to shit if you delete or move the refills to another drive etc etc.

So just choose a spot and keep them their for good.

[Iapetus 9]

So I guess I should just start buying Kontakt libraries now. Oh wait...all the good ones are locked up tight for Kontakt only too. Sample translators just don't work well much of the time either. The real good companies will have all the popular formats to choose from. Analogue Drums is, for example, a company that does it right. I'll give you that.

[gak]

All your refill are belong to us

[Ostermilk]

I'll always go for unpacked files where available, have done for years. In fact I hate propietary formats of anything.

Loopmasters like you say and Analogue drums who have been mentioned here also are both companies that I use precisely because of how they distribute their sample based stuff either that or I'll roll my own.

Refills are a pointless format now that disk space is cheap, they don't protect a devlopers interests, in fact they limit them to being format specific and they are a hinderance to end users and have been for years.

Chicken systems pointed this out loud and clear at least 5 years ago.

http://www.samplerzone.com/forums/viewt ... =24&t=2340

[freeQlow]

I must say, I don't need a refill for reason 8.
Said this many times, I missed 4.5,5,6,7.
So coming back to 8 and just being amazes at all the sequencer controls, SSL and to have recycle/Rex included on any audio lane, I don't need a refill.

Combinator and rack patches are fun, but most refills or sample packs carry Kong and NNXT drum patches.

Loop masters and some users here sell some mighty fine and fun Synth, Combinator refills still.

Not sure I would call them dead, I would call them optional or less needed with all the audio capabilities.

[sinnerfire]

I've never had a problem with the Refill format. You can do all your file organizing right inside Reason itself on the left hand tab and just add your favorite patches to a folder right, simple enough. Just create a folder called synths and put them all in there.
I've never wanted to delete anything inside a refill, I may not use certain things but I still consider everything part of the full package of that refill. Just like my sample packs I keep everything together. It's also kinda cool that it's just one big file and not a whole bunch of files. But that's Reason, they do everything their own way. On the topic of buying refills, I just bought a bunch of eXodes and others so not sure what you mean by the format is dead.

Hello JMax.

Im glad your reason experience is so satisfying to you, really i am, each to there own etc but lets say you have a 500gig hard drive on your computer (like me) and your refill folder is over 100gigs (like me) but you only use 20% of the content, soooo (getting to the point) if you were able to edit your refills, you could reclaim over 80gigs of your hard drive.

So I guess I should just start buying Kontakt libraries now. Oh wait...all the good ones are locked up tight for Kontakt only too. Sample translators just don't work well much of the time either. The real good companies will have all the popular formats to choose from. Analogue Drums is, for example, a company that does it right. I'll give you that.

Hello Iapetus 9.

Native Instruments, who make Kontakt, make all their libraries in there "Closed" format but you still have access to them and you can delete the samples/presets that you dont want which means they are editable.

[gak]

I love refills. I love shopping for them, I love the way they look, I love them so much!!!!!!

I was going to put the youtube of the crazy woman who wants to hug every cat but unfortunately, turns out she's a phony. So, I love reason refill and I'm getting a little emotional.....could be the hallucinating starting in from not eating for 2 days though....

[Jmax]

I've never had a problem with the Refill format. You can do all your file organizing right inside Reason itself on the left hand tab and just add your favorite patches to a folder right, simple enough. Just create a folder called synths and put them all in there.
I've never wanted to delete anything inside a refill, I may not use certain things but I still consider everything part of the full package of that refill. Just like my sample packs I keep everything together. It's also kinda cool that it's just one big file and not a whole bunch of files. But that's Reason, they do everything their own way. On the topic of buying refills, I just bought a bunch of eXodes and others so not sure what you mean by the format is dead.

Hello JMax.

Im glad your reason experience is so satisfying to you, really i am, each to there own etc but lets say you have a 500gig hard drive on your computer (like me) and your refill folder is over 100gigs (like me) but you only use 20% of the content, soooo (getting to the point) if you were able to edit your refills, you could reclaim over 80gigs of your hard drive.

So I guess I should just start buying Kontakt libraries now. Oh wait...all the good ones are locked up tight for Kontakt only too. Sample translators just don't work well much of the time either. The real good companies will have all the popular formats to choose from. Analogue Drums is, for example, a company that does it right. I'll give you that.

Hello Iapetus 9.

Native Instruments, who make Kontakt, make all their libraries in there "Closed" format but you still have access to them and you can delete the samples/presets that you dont want which means they are editable.

I hear you on that one I guess I just assumed if your producing music and spending money on programs and gear you'd also be able to afford a 1tb drive or external. My Kontakt library, sample library, and refills is well over 2TB easily. But if your going more portable with a laptop then just use the refills or instruments/samples you use the most.

[satyr32]

I hate it so much that it is not possible to sort (by name/date/...) what you put inside a favourite folder on the left tab in Reason. I have to sort it manually which is crazy if you for example put 200 Hi Hats in a folder. And you cannot create a folder inseide a folder, i mean how hard can it be to program something like that.

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

While it is an old format, I just wanna give a shout out to all the the wonderful Refill makers! I have at least 7 or 8 on my to buy list. Keep on keeping on!

[Ronin]

100% agree with the OP. Total waste of time and space.

[jonheal]

I love refills. I love shopping for them, I love the way they look, I love them so much!!!!!!

I was going to put the youtube of the crazy woman who wants to hug every cat but unfortunately, turns out she's a phony. So, I love reason refill and I'm getting a little emotional.....could be the hallucinating starting in from not eating for 2 days though....

And not just not eating, but also squirting what few precious nutrients remain out your heinie! Double whammy!!!

I like refills, too, although I do wish I could rename them internally so I could sort things my anal way. (No reference to the previous sentence intended.)

[sinnerfire]

I hear you on that one I guess I just assumed if your producing music and spending money on programs and gear you'd also be able to afford a 1tb drive or external. My Kontakt library, sample library, and refills is well over 2TB easily. But if your going more portable with a laptop then just use the refills or instruments/samples you use the most.

Hi Jmax,

Thanks for your comment but you do know that i run drumandbassasylum.com dont you? Which means i have refills/sample libraries/Kontakt shisL coming out my ears and yes i have 8 2T Drives and 4 500gig drives and you know what, refills still piss me off. lol

So i like i said, i have over 100 gigs of refills on my hard drive (the one on my Mac Book Pro) and its a 500gig SSD so befor i even start, more than 100gigs is used up, i use about 20% of the files located in these refills, so lets say my favorite Kong drum kit is in one and my favorite bass kit is in another, i have not even using 1% of the total samples/presets in the refill but i still have to host the whole refill on my hard drive? makes no sense, no sample CD or sample pack or any other preset/sample format does this and i think the props are just shooting them selves in the foot for no reason.

[gak]

I love refills. I love shopping for them, I love the way they look, I love them so much!!!!!!

I was going to put the youtube of the crazy woman who wants to hug every cat but unfortunately, turns out she's a phony. So, I love reason refill and I'm getting a little emotional.....could be the hallucinating starting in from not eating for 2 days though....

And not just not eating, but also squirting what few precious nutrients remain out your heinie! Double whammy!!!

I like refills, too, although I do wish I could rename them internally so I could sort things my anal way. (No reference to the previous sentence intended.)

Hey, I was trying not to gross everyone out Man, like I said elsewhere that stuff they make you drink is GAGTASTIC! Mmmmmmmmmmm, salt water....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I guess refill is what I'll be doing tomorrow?


But I digress. I love refills! I love reason so much.

[CharlyCharlzz]

I kind of admit two things :

1st the refill maker and a few things like refill modulations is total lame from the past .
2nd Yes they killed the PUF community up but they dont care .
they must haved anderstand that doing combinAtors and Refills was an elite thing for Pros or total geeks and that most of the Buyers of Reason Are just Dumb and play with it a bit before they give up music without producing any track in there lifetime wich leaded them to start a new self promoting sharing project that would let bad producers to take what they want from good ones to make (re-arrenge) it into there own track.
all that sayed I would not use any other software anymore even if I dont feel like doing any community refills these days .

SOLUTIONS :

1st Props need to make a new app too make refills , edit them up (in a limited way) , it should be all easy to use and give a lot of options for organisation and personalisation of the refill (maybe Gif haha) , each refills could also maybe use something like a super compressed audio gif to demo each sounds directly from the computer browser (even the synth patchs) .

2nd Put this app for free on the main Page in Discover as a major event , re-open a forum only for refills and technical stuff like sound design , synth & combinator programing so the new discover users can learn the real power of Reason and start sharing patch's like over at ableton or with NI .

they learned to make it simple for new ones to make stuff and share it based on what they learned from the PUF so maybe going back to the Roots on a fresh start with a Mega Cool and futuristic Refill Maker App with intthe door tegrated sharing option etc... is the solution .

they got a lot of users that like the new face of Props because of many Reasons but PUF was only a Geek and Pro place and now most Pros are not here because they still got a PUF just for them wich close the door to futur Devs who wants and need to be around these devs environement .

[avasopht]

I think refills are fine as they do facilitate linking of samples in other refills.

I do agree with your points raised though so maybe all they need is to include the capacity to remove unwanted samples for your personal selection of the refill.

That way you benefit from still being able to use other refills that use samples from that refill and can also reduce the size by eliminating unused samples.

[marcuswitt]

@ the OP: I think I fully got your point and I unsderstand your frustration about the ReFill format and its restrictions, although I personally have no problems with the ReFill format, because what some people may consider as being a disadvantage could be seen as an advantage by others. Well, that's like many other aspects of life.

I think that it's totally normal that some of a ReFills' content doesn't meet your needs and/or taste. Therefore, I understand your wish to throw unwanted content away in order to free some memory space on your hard disk(s) and not to be 'forced' to carry unnacessary stuff around. It's basically the same with virtually every packed sample format, such as KONTAKT or UVI's file format, or whatever. It's even the same with Keyboard Workstations, which come with thousends of waveforms and presets, whereof probably about 50% of them will never be touched by some musicians. Anyway...

But I wouldn't go that far to say that the ReFill format is dead. So, what do you suggest? For instance, to have a ReFill unpacker or organizing tool that allows you to delete and reorganize some data permanently that are nested within a ReFill? If something like that is what you're looking for then I'm 100%ly with you because that would (IMO) indeed make the ReFill format much more user friendly in terms of customizing them. Nevertheless, I think that the ReFill is still a file format that is comfortable to work with, in general - despite its restrictions.

[Marco Raaphorst]

First....Refill sales have gone through the floor since the PUF closed, there is no longer a single place were dedicated Reason users can go and hang out, the community has been broken up and now advertising to Reason users is really hard for Refill/soundpack producers.

Are you selling ReFills and have you seen a drop in sales?

[True]

I agree with the OP. This really became obvious for me with the PK7 20K+ refill. Tons and tons of duplicates in that. Thousands of presets I never use. Very, VERY poorly organized. I would love to dig into that thing and "fix" it, but I can't. And I'd rather not fill up the Reason browser with folders that I only need on occasion; just keep them in the refill itself considering that's what it's supposed to be for!

[Exowildebeest]

I agree with the OP. This really became obvious for me with the PK7 20K+ refill. Tons and tons of duplicates in that. Thousands of presets I never use. Very, VERY poorly organized. I would love to dig into that thing and "fix" it, but I can't. And I'd rather not fill up the Reason browser with folders that I only need on occasion; just keep them in the refill itself considering that's what it's supposed to be for!

There are some improved versions of the 200k refill floating around.

And PX7 got updated with a nice selection of those presets in its soundbank too.

That said, yes, that refill made one immediately aware of the limitations of refills.