The Refill "Market" is dead!!

[Exowildebeest]

Also, last time I used the Refill Packer it seemed like a pretty archaic piece of software. Don't know if it's even up to date with the latest Reason version. I seem to remember that it lagged behind, which is stupid. I agree that it, and the Refill format in general, could do with some updating...

[Last Alternative]

100% agree with OP.

Let me throw something out here: I'll be the 1st to admit---when I started using Reason back in 2009, a friend gave me a pirated R4 & countless cd's full of pirated REfills but then I bought Record, then R5-8, 1 or 2 REfills, tons of RE's and now I only buy and don't even download music or movies anymore. I feel guilty about it especially being an artist and all and have since spent hundred$ of dollars on my music (software, drum packs, etc.) Thousand$ if we're counting computer, hardware, guitars, etc.
*A special thank you for all the free stuff people have given like RE's, drum packs, Combinator & Kong patches-you name it*
Some body will say "you can't batch if you stole it" but that's not the issue here. OK so!

I've deleted a ton of REfills over time (some still on the chopping block) because there's only 1 or 2 patches I kept them for. Really sux we can't pull out what we like & bin the rest. Same goes for the FSB. There's some cheesy sh*t in there lol.

I like to work clean- meaning that I only have my favorite sounds so when I want a synth or snare or something, I go to that folder and surf thru until I find what fits, not spend hours due to most of it being junk. This is why I've shifted almost 100% to using 1-shot samples for my drums, sound fx, etc. I can easily trash a sound I know I'll never use which keeps everything nice & tidy. If this was possible with the FSB & REfills I bet I'd free up like 10gigs and so much valuable time! Also, keep in mind that your )))SOUND((( hugely comes from using the same sounds (& fx) in your songs. It's what makes up your style. It can be very limited or sprinkled here and there but definitely makes it easier to choose/write, and for peeps to identify your music.

In conclusion, I wouldn't say REfills are dead but they certainly need an overhaul. Just like the SSL mixer panning, spectrum EQ, Neptune, FSB, audio editing... R9 better BRING IT! Or I may start looking elsewhere.

[dana]

I think refills are amazing, they save a lot of disk space and disk inodes from being used up.

Stop complaining and go make some music.

[sinnerfire]

I think refills are amazing, they save a lot of disk space and disk inodes from being used up.

Hi dana,

Really? Refills are amazing? BIG lol

Packing presets/wavs into refills will save some space, i dont know what the compression rate is, maybe you could compare it to the Winrar or Zip compression rates but how much space is that really saving you, if you had a refill unpacker or some way of getting at the refill content without having to use the Reason patchbay, wouldn't that be better?

Stop complaining and go make some music.

What an annoying thing to say?

I make and sell refills, which means i practically live in the Reason patchbay, its cold in there, a bit dark and santa has been around since 2001 so im complaining ok

[sinnerfire]

Also, last time I used the Refill Packer it seemed like a pretty archaic piece of software. Don't know if it's even up to date with the latest Reason version. I seem to remember that it lagged behind, which is stupid. I agree that it, and the Refill format in general, could do with some updating...

Hello Exowildebeest

I totally agree + last time i packed a refill (two months ago), i had to trick the Refill packer into working? Something about the Packer not recognising Combinator patches? + the packer needs to know where the Factory Soundbanks are but like i said i had to trick the packer into working by copying the soundbanks into the Reason app on my mac, then i had to go in and delete them because Reason cant handle having two of the same refill on your hard drive? Big wtf.

Lots of ?????????'s keep popping up

Madness, shaking my head in wonder?

[kitekrazy]

Refills for the NNXT format is dead. As for Refills containing comb., patches, Rex and wav, they are still alive and kicking.
Few developers would waste their time on the NNXT. It's clumsy along with Live's sampler compared to programming in Kontakt.

I make my own refills because it's a compression format. Most of the loop producers sell the refill format to compress the wav and Rex files.
Esoundz still create refills. Not too long ago I bought Allan Parsons Piano and Neil Pert Drums.

[freeQlow]

Yall are all sample sluts and you know it!

For whoever is complaining they have too many hats or rim shots in their percussion folders, I could imagine what you'd be saying if you had wav loops to import into recycle , spend precious minutes or hours slicing up your favorite Ol Dirty Bastard beats oh ever so perfectly, save your new Rex beat in a folder outside of reason, close recycle, open reason only to realize you forgot to label or change the tempo to match your remix.

Flashbacks

[freeQlow]

I believe my last 3 refill purchases were
Rennie Pilgrem, Synchronocity, Whoever had all the DCAM, Chenille patches... think it was Navi....

[moneykube]

nah... refills are alive and wonderful... would like an unpacker as well though... the problem is that refills are easily pirated... impossible to sell many refills because of this... this goes for films, videos, songs, music in general and refills... refills need a new system of copy protection... I am positive if that happened , sales would jump

[avasopht]

refills need a new system of copy protection... I am positive if that happened , sales would jump

Well you do have the rack extension format that allows you to create sample patches, they just can't be edited, which isn't too much of an issue if you provide options and the right controls for your device.

[Marco Raaphorst]

I think this is a false statement: "First....Refill sales have gone through the floor"

Are you selling ReFills? What makes you say this?

[JiggeryPokery]

I think this is a false statement: "First....Refill sales have gone through the floor"

Are you selling ReFills? What makes you say this?

The bit where he said "I make and sell refills" was a bit of a clue.

If he says his ReFill sales have gone through the floor, then what I take from that is that his ReFill sales have gone through the floor. You're saying he is wrong and making a false statement, even though he knows his own sales figures, and you don't?

Just because your sales haven't dropped, Marco, doesn't mean every other dev has been equally as unaffected. (Can't say I've noticed much difference myself).

[JiggeryPokery]

Also, last time I used the Refill Packer it seemed like a pretty archaic piece of software. Don't know if it's even up to date with the latest Reason version. I seem to remember that it lagged behind, which is stupid. I agree that it, and the Refill format in general, could do with some updating...

This, on the other hand, is a valid comment. PH have failed to keep RP in step with its ability to actually work alongside the current Reason version. AFAIK it still doesn't work with the R8.3 without some dicking about trying to get it to locate the Reason soundbanks. Some manage to get it to work with Shortcuts; personally I found I had to copy the entire soundbank, which Reason then deletes next time it starts cos it shouldn't be there anymore.

edit: Here's a prime example of the poor communication from PH since PUF went down. RP 8.2 is actually available on the website, dated 2nd September. No mention of it (that I can see) on their Facebook page. Which we were told is how they intend to communicate with users now.

ReFill Packer 8.2
https://www.propellerheads.se/download/ ... illpacker8

[dana]

I think refills are amazing, they save a lot of disk space and disk inodes from being used up.

Hi dana,

Really? Refills are amazing? BIG lol

Packing presets/wavs into refills will save some space, i dont know what the compression rate is, maybe you could compare it to the Winrar or Zip compression rates but how much space is that really saving you, if you had a refill unpacker or some way of getting at the refill content without having to use the Reason patchbay, wouldn't that be better?

Stop complaining and go make some music.

What an annoying thing to say?

I make and sell refills, which means i practically live in the Reason patchbay, its cold in there, a bit dark and santa has been around since 2001 so im complaining ok

I like annoying you But it wasn't meant to annoy.. More like reason with you that its a piece of software for making music, that is all it is and ever will be. This sort of complaining and huge threads of people complaining about stuff is why the puf no more

I've used reason since 2000 when it came out. I've created my own refill library, i've packed over 300 refills in my personal library.. There is a limit in size a refill can be (packed just below 4Gb), and the file format of each sample has to be exactly right otherwise the refill won't pack.

Wav files do not normally pack very well using zip compression, but the refill packer more than halves the amount of space the samples take up.

The new version of reason is not compatible with refill packer, you need to have another folder with reason and its refills for it to work. creating symbolic links to the application support folder doesn't work as reason will just remove those the next time it is run.

And zip files can't be opened by any application other than an unzipper which would be pointless to do?

[Marco Raaphorst]

sorry, I read it too fast.

no hard feelings :-p

[JiggeryPokery]

ReFill Packer 8.2
https://www.propellerheads.se/download/ ... illpacker8

I've run a quick test, it worked with R8.3 without any issues.

[dana]

ReFill Packer 8.2
https://www.propellerheads.se/download/ ... illpacker8

I've run a quick test, it worked with R8.3 without any issues.

Cool, i have 8.1b1 that had the issue.

[KEVMOVE02]

Besides the fact that the title of this thread has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, doesn't this entire rant fall under the heading "Not a feature suggestion, but a feature demand"? As an aside, how exactly to you manage to sift through 2 TB of loops, samples and patches for inspiration? Song development must take an inhuman amount of time or be a primary method of torture in the seventh circle of hell.

[sinnerfire]

I think this is a false statement: "First....Refill sales have gone through the floor"

Are you selling ReFills? What makes you say this?

The bit where he said "I make and sell refills" was a bit of a clue.

If he says his ReFill sales have gone through the floor, then what I take from that is that his ReFill sales have gone through the floor. You're saying he is wrong and making a false statement, even though he knows his own sales figures, and you don't?

Just because your sales haven't dropped, Marco, doesn't mean every other dev has been equally as unaffected. (Can't say I've noticed much difference myself).

Big thank you.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Yes sorry, I missed that part you selling refills yourself.

Personally I don't have a clue about how big or small the market is. Zipping a bunch of samples and NNXT or Kong patches might be more convenient. Or use both: ReFill + samples and patches in 1 zip.

[sinnerfire]

I like annoying you But it wasn't meant to annoy.. More like reason with you that its a piece of software for making music, that is all it is and ever will be. This sort of complaining and huge threads of people complaining about stuff is why the puf no more

No comment.

Wav files do not normally pack very well using zip compression, but the refill packer more than halves the amount of space the samples take up.

Well that is interesting, so i did a quick test and i can report that your "more than halve" statement is pure crapola.

The test revealed that the compression rate for wav's is less than 1%. A 100mb refill will compress down to 99.8mb after the refill has been made.

And zip files can't be opened by any application other than an unzipper which would be pointless to do?

So?

[sinnerfire]

Besides the fact that the title of this thread has nothing to do with the subject of this thread

Hello KEVMOVE02,

Totally agree, started this thread because the patchbay in Reason + refills + Refill packer where driving me a bit nuts and now im arguing about compression rates with long time Reason users who should know better?

I keep reading statements like "I love Refills" and "I bought 3 refills last week man" from people who buy shisL once in a blue moon.

Some of the hard facts that i know because i run a online sample company are as follows.

1. Since the PUF closed, refill sales have nearly hit rock bottom for me.
2. After completing a new sample pack, if i name the sample pack, for example "The Bass Refill" i can guarantee that it will not sell, maybe one or two hits but not allot. If i name the same soundpack "The bass Soundpack" i can guarantee that my rent gets paid for another month. Simple as that.
3. When i check my sales figures and compare which products sold most, my un-packed soundpacks always sell the most.

Its getting to the point were im thinking about forgetting about Reason soundpacks.

Reason is still my number one sequencer but after i finish my latest free soundpack, i think i will not be releasing any more Refill packs.

[sinnerfire]

ReFill Packer 8.2
https://www.propellerheads.se/download/ ... illpacker8

I've run a quick test, it worked with R8.3 without any issues.

Excellent, another big thanks.

[miscend]

Second.... The Closed refill format is absolutely F shit..... You are not allowed to change, rearrange or delete anything inside a refill, so you end up with a whole heap of content clogging up your hard drive, stuff you will never use, or if like me, you like organising all you evil synths into one folder and all your best subs into another folder, you cant grab them as a whole, you have to individually save each patch, copy wav files, re assign presets so they know where the corresponding samples are located etc etc etc

You dont need to use the Refill format. You can package and sell your presets as Zip folders if you want.

[miscend]

ReFill Packer 8.2
https://www.propellerheads.se/download/ ... illpacker8

I've run a quick test, it worked with R8.3 without any issues.

Excellent, another big thanks.

Why don't you make an IDK REs instead. Like those Kontakt sound libraries with fancy scripting and shiny GUI's.