Why is Discover so inherently unsocial?

[charnode]

I don't get it, there is such huge potential in Discover that goes just out the window. A comment function would go a long way already, I haven't found one. Then the shop; ratings are cool and everything but say nothing whatsoever about who rated and how many did. So does a one star rating, being the only one on the product, rate the product one star in general? 

Also, I found that some snippets on discover are based on others, however I did not find a visual clue on that fact on the site. I'm puzzled at how bad a job is done when it comes to social collaboration there, and I am not even getting into having separated tracks to make discover actually useful rather than having everything clumped together in a single wavefile. That is not collaboration.

[Gaja]

I agree that social features like comments, likes, friends etc. would really help expand the discover platform, as would a tag system, or search by user etc.
But on the other hand I feel like it's good that not every available ressource goes into the development of discover, but also in the development of the RE SDK and Reason itself.

[charnode]

I agree that social features like comments, likes, friends etc. would really help expand the discover platform, as would a tag system, or search by user etc.
But on the other hand I feel like it's good that not every available ressource goes into the development of discover, but also in the development of the RE SDK and Reason itself.

See, the thing is commenting fuctionality should not take forever to implrment. That is basic web development 101. Not talking about nifty annotation highlighting or hashtags or anything (yet).

[Gaja]

Well I wouldn't know about the technical side of things. Also I don't care much about the pace of development, since I have what I have because I found value when I got into it. I find discover to be a bit unfinished as well, but as I said don't mind that it's taking ages, because my main interest is Reason, which they areactivly improving. If in fact programming a comment functionality is easy as pie, then it is a weird omission, but I am pretty sure Props have a fantastic project management, with focus on certain things, which will have to be done before other features can be implemented. Maybe they actually have to program a lot of backgrund stuff that won't be visible to us in order to meet their own vision of the service.
If their vision has a better alternative to a comment section (maybe soundcloud style commenting) then they will do just that.

[KEVMOVE02]

I don't think it is fair to label Discover as "inherently unsocial", due to the fact that music sharing in and of it self cannot occur without some form of interaction with other people. You may make the argument that the structure of Discover is very restrictive in the types of dialogue it facilitates, but that is by design. Being able to comment and critique would only interfere with the intended dialogue the Discover wants to foster: communicate and collaborate through the music ALONE. This is akin to a group of musicians who talk to each other through the language of melody, harmony and rhythm. Discover allows us to share our musical thoughts, then listen to how others elaborate on what they heard. That dialogue alone is the point. It's not for everyone, but I think its brilliant. If the ability to comment about a music clip was added, it would overshadow this. As far as your questions about the RE rating system, that's an entirely separate issue.

[Exowildebeest]

Discover is still beta, and still sucks whether it's beta or not, but Kevmove is right I think - but I'm afraid few people will "get it" like he does - modern human primates are used to commenting, liking, etc. etc. Navigating to a user profile and sending a personal e-mail is too much effort for people these days. I won't pass any moral judgement or shoulds and oughts on that - it's just my observation of how things seem to be.

[charnode]

Well, you see? That doesn't work either, because everything is lumped together, there is no separate melody, harmony or rhythm. There is just take it all or none. I'd prefer to not partake then, for now.

Also, if no comments does have the same reason underneath I assume led to closing the forums, there is an underlying, deeper problem to the propellerhead creative community that cannot be solved by not providing a commenting functionality. This stuff just seems so incredibly basic.

Also I actually do think the shop flaws in the same regard are connected to the problems with this in discover and are not an entirely separate issue. It just shows more of how intransparent and hard and unpersonal it is to connect with others on this very platform.

A collaborative platform needs to implement basic social networking capabilities, we're not in the 90ies anymore. Well in the 90ies we had guestbooks, at least ...

[charnode]

Navigating through a phone book and sending a personal handwritten letter is too much effort for people these days.

FTFY.

[lowpryo]

I don't think it is fair to label Discover as "inherently unsocial", due to the fact that music sharing in and of it self cannot occur without some form of interaction with other people. You may make the argument that the structure of Discover is very restrictive in the types of dialogue it facilitates, but that is by design. Being able to comment and critique would only interfere with the intended dialogue the Discover wants to foster: communicate and collaborate through the music ALONE. This is akin to a group of musicians who talk to each other through the language of melody, harmony and rhythm. Discover allows us to share our musical thoughts, then listen to how others elaborate on what they heard. That dialogue alone is the point. It's not for everyone, but I think its brilliant. If the ability to comment about a music clip was added, it would overshadow this. As far as your questions about the RE rating system, that's an entirely separate issue.

in that way, the system works as an interesting social experiment, but not as a productive tool. yes, music is a language, but i wouldn't know how to say "turn the high hats down" or "remove the pads" in music alone. this could be avoided if everyone had access to the project stems and we could make the changes ourselves, but currently the system doesn't offer that.
or how about trying to communicate "let's work on another track"? or maybe "where are you from? let's get together and jam". interactions like this aren't possible on the platform. and that makes it feel impersonal and "unsocial" as OP suggested. it feels like there's a ceiling for personal interaction, and that keeps it as a novelty instead of a tool that creates real relationships and real success.

[lowpryo]

Navigating to a user profile and sending a personal e-mail is too much effort for people these days.

it's a developers job to make their platform as easy and effortless as possible. this shouldn't be an issue of how "lazy" users are these days. any developer with that attitude is not going to be successful.
not to mention, when Discover doesn't offer communication, their traffic is likely to be driven to other sites like Twitter or Facebook for people to communicate. is that really what PH wants? traffic leaving their site? (actually they ditched their forum for this reason, so I guess so...)

[True]

See, the thing is commenting fuctionality should not take forever to implrment. That is basic web development 101.

It's hardly that basic, especially if they were designing their own. But incorporating a third-party solution should not take months, that is true.

[charnode]

Also if we think back to the shennaigans of the prop forum, they may be trying to avoid any of its users having a voice on their platform. So from that vantage point it can seem justified.

This is the core problem I was thinking of. That detrimental mechanic, however, is not to be conquered by eliminating seamless ways of participation. That will only spur insignificance of the platform.

For me Propellerhead was always about ease of use, hiding complexity, focus on workflow. Reason still does that, Discover however is not even in the same ballpark. Again, my opinion and perception, true enough.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Reason and it's my favorite musicrelated pastime to play with. But I just cannot wrap my head around the concept of Discover (or lack thereof).

[JNeffLind]

Devil's avocado... Discover is more sizzle than steak. It's kind of an indirect bait and switch meant to sell their apps and convince people to upgrade to 8, with the knowledge that after they have your money you'll stick around for other reasons (like Reason being awesome), not for the reason you thought you were getting on board, that being Discover itself. 

Discover is a cool idea, but its execution is quite flawed. Cool ideas move units though, and once they have your money they'll count on their strong product easing the blow of the annoyance over Discover's shortcomings.

[Tincture]

I guess I can see that discover may lead some peeps who aren't too involved/serious/bothered about a DAW into reason and that is a cool reason to engage the millions of app users... But it does make some core reason users (ok maybe just me) wonder what I'll get for my next (now 20% more expensive... Oh eerr no we've always been ripped off on this one, no equalisation required) 129... I am a Reason user.... That is all to me. Bounce on my back once and I'll be annoyed... Do it 2 or 3 times and I'll just sit where I am. Quite happily.

[Raveshaper]

As far as keeping a lid on negativity by not providing an in-house comment system, where there's that much smoke, there is undoubtedly a fire. In-house or not.

[Emerton]

 but i wouldn't know how to say "turn the high hats down" or "remove the pads" in music alone. 

Make a song based on the track, where the only change is you saying "turn the hihats down" or "remove the pads".

[Emerton]

 but i wouldn't know how to say "turn the high hats down" or "remove the pads" in music alone. 

Make a song based on the track, where the only change is you saying "turn the hihats down" or "remove the pads".

I mean this guy put an argument against the discover TOS on discover: [url=http:// https//www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM]http:// [/url]

[charnode]

 but i wouldn't know how to say "turn the high hats down" or "remove the pads" in music alone. 

Make a song based on the track, where the only change is you saying "turn the hihats down" or "remove the pads".

... I'm sure you can see for yourself that once a few people start "communicating" this way it can only get messy and sometimes you won't even be able to tell, what that person was trying to convey to begin with. That is neither ease-of-use nor is it efficient. Rather, in a lot of cases it would be ridiculous.

[Raveshaper]

That was awesome. That's what I call a home run.

Using the very tool in question to make me laugh about its dysfunction.

[Emerton]

 but i wouldn't know how to say "turn the high hats down" or "remove the pads" in music alone. 

Make a song based on the track, where the only change is you saying "turn the hihats down" or "remove the pads".

... I'm sure you can see for yourself that once a few people start "communicating" this way it can only get messy and sometimes you won't even be able to tell, what that person was trying to convey to begin with. That is neither ease-of-use nor is it efficient. Rather, in a lot of cases it would be ridiculous.

Did you listen to the rant?

[Emerton]

That was awesome. That's what I call a home run.

Using the very tool in question to make me laugh about its dysfunction.

I agree

[jfrichards]

Sure would be good if Discover had a positive disclaimer like, "Discover is not for professional musicians, it's a super-highway for the rest of us to compose, collaborate, and have fun."

[jfrichards]

By the way, I use Discover all the time now for simply sending or linking to something I'm doing in Reason.  It's way more convenient than Soundcloud.  I've dropped any illusions in it being for collaboration for me.  Dropbox and Soundcloud are just fine for professional and semi-professional collaboration.

[normen]

I mean this guy put an argument against the discover TOS on discover: [url=http:// https//www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM]https://www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM[/url]

Funny thing is that yorick is definitely in some kind of Performance Rights Organization - he'd get royalties for anyone playing music with his stuff anyway - just no upfront payment. (See our other discussion).

[selig]

I mean this guy put an argument against the discover TOS on discover: [url=http:// https//www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM]https://www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM[/url]

Funny thing is that yorick is definitely in some kind of Performance Rights Organization - he'd get royalties for anyone playing music with his stuff anyway - just no upfront payment. (See our other discussion).

Wow, that was so annoying I couldn't make it past the first 15 seconds. Not sure what the point is or where it went from there, but it wasn't something I'd consider informative or helpful in any way (which was likely it's intent). 

What was the actual "argument" against the TOS? Anyone?