Reason 8.3: RV7000 gets convolution :-)

[avasopht]

If 8.3 was "reason 8" I probably would have jumped on the v8 bandwagon right away. But this sort of trickling of new features has me thinking each time "well, I've lived without xyz for this long, I probably don't need xyz plus another feature or two either.". It's a perceived value sort of thing I guess.

What's the difference exactly? I mean, ...

If it was reason 8, you would upgrade and get the convolution.
Even though it is 8.3, you would upgrade and get the convolution.

[Ostermilk]

So... RV7000 MK II with convolution capabilities. Now the lingering question is..... anyone still buying Numerical sound REs? I know this news makes plenty glad they didn't.

Well they still might sell on the strength of the included IR's alone but at least users will have a choice about what IR's they decide to purchase or use rather than being limited to a single source and the mysticism about the devices themselves will evaporate.

Well anyone who does some kind of research is probably unlikely to buy 30 reverb impulses for $70 especially with free sites like these:

http://www.openairlib.net/auralizationdb

https://www.audioease.com/IR/audioeaseirs.html

And even Samplicity charging about $70 for ~90-over 100 IRs. 

I could see perhaps maybe tilt filters continuing to be bought.

Anywho, Props are slowly making R8 into a decent upgrade. I might actually upgrade from Reason 7 to 9 after all. Convolution adds a lot of sound capabilities beyond reverb like loading guitar cabinets and such.

Actually with the Tilt Filters or pretty much any kind of filter it's not difficult to make your own IR's.  NS strongest suit for IR's is the stuff like upfront spaces etc.  Like Normen says it's hard to get quality responses from those environments and it's certainly one of NS's strengths if you look at their catalogue of IR's.

The other ones such as the tone mutations are more difficult too as it's quite a process to extract the characteristics of an instrument without it's tonality in order to avoid nasty resonances when you are convolving a signal.  I have a process for doing it which involves Matlab and some FFT trickery to get the IR's so it's doable but I find it difficult getting good sounding IR's going that route.

Anyhow I expect we'll be seeing some great IR's of all types now it's going to be an open playing field which was my only gripe with the limited convolution options we've had in the Rack until now.  Albeit it was a big gripe of mine...

It might also just be me but the inevitable cries of so and such DAW has had convolution for years may be true, and I've been using convolution for many years, but the real point here is it's arriving in the Rack and that for me is fantastic news as it's just another process I don't have go outside of Reason for.

[Ostermilk]

great news , i`m looking for a NS10 impulse response . has anyone got one laying around somewhere or any console IR`s ?

For any non-linear process, such as saturation, distortion, etc., convolution is not an ideal solution. Unless you take MANY 'samples' at many different levels and have a device that can interpret those, like you do when you sample many different velocity levels of a dynamic instrument like a piano, guitar, or drums.

Indeed, I always think of an IR as being a static image of a playback envorinment (+ the recording equipment used for the capture) rather than a motion picture then again you have the shortfalls of of moving picture such as you'd get from a series of captured 'frames' and it's still very limited even if you can mitigate the time-variant factors to a degree, for example you can't move around the space or change the sound source position.

The NS-10 IR (if it exists and was recorded in an anechoic chamber or similar and each channel recorded separately) might sound interesting, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to make your monitors sound like NS-10s if that's what you're after…any more than a vocoder makes a synth sound like its "talking". IMO, of course…

You'd certainly be able to capture the characteristics of the entire playback system including the speakers but it would be difficult to isolate just the speakers from the environment although you could capture the differences between different speaker setups in that particular environment and taking into account my previous paragraph you'd only be getting a 'static' image of that enviroment from a single postion.  It's the same reason why room EQ systems are so limited and can't be relied on as an effective method of 'room correction'.

IOW an ordinary EQ would do just as well for this job as anything else would...

[ReasonUser]

If 8.3 was "reason 8" I probably would have jumped on the v8 bandwagon right away. But this sort of trickling of new features has me thinking each time "well, I've lived without xyz for this long, I probably don't need xyz plus another feature or two either.". It's a perceived value sort of thing I guess.

What's the difference exactly? I mean, ...

If it was reason 8, you would upgrade and get the convolution.
Even though it is 8.3, you would upgrade and get the convolution.

I made my point. Yes it's the same thing, but it wasn't like BAM hit me over the head with all the features at once so I must upgrade NOW. I was thinking I'll wait until fall to upgrade in case they decide to put out Reason 9 in Oct/Nov, and 8.3 hasn't changed my mind...

[mrj1nx]

Nice! Another thing I can add to my rack when I upgrade to R9

[QVprod]

So... RV7000 MK II with convolution capabilities. Now the lingering question is..... anyone still buying Numerical sound REs? I know this news makes plenty glad they didn't.

Well they still might sell on the strength of the included IR's alone but at least users will have a choice about what IR's they decide to purchase or use rather than being limited to a single source and the mysticism about the devices themselves will evaporate.

Well anyone who does some kind of research is probably unlikely to buy 30 reverb impulses for $70 especially with free sites like these:

http://www.openairlib.net/auralizationdb

https://www.audioease.com/IR/audioeaseirs.html

And even Samplicity charging about $70 for ~90-over 100 IRs. 

I could see perhaps maybe tilt filters continuing to be bought.

Anywho, Props are slowly making R8 into a decent upgrade. I might actually upgrade from Reason 7 to 9 after all. Convolution adds a lot of sound capabilities beyond reverb like loading guitar cabinets and such.

Actually with the Tilt Filters or pretty much any kind of filter it's not difficult to make your own IR's.  NS strongest suit for IR's is the stuff like upfront spaces etc.  Like Normen says it's hard to get quality responses from those environments and it's certainly one of NS's strengths if you look at their catalogue of IR's.

The other ones such as the tone mutations are more difficult too as it's quite a process to extract the characteristics of an instrument without it's tonality in order to avoid nasty resonances when you are convolving a signal.  I have a process for doing it which involves Matlab and some FFT trickery to get the IR's so it's doable but I find it difficult getting good sounding IR's going that route.

Anyhow I expect we'll be seeing some great IR's of all types now it's going to be an open playing field which was my only gripe with the limited convolution options we've had in the Rack until now.  Albeit it was a big gripe of mine...

It might also just be me but the inevitable cries of so and such DAW has had convolution for years may be true, and I've been using convolution for many years, but the real point here is it's arriving in the Rack and that for me is fantastic news as it's just another process I don't have go outside of Reason for.

I forgot about Tone Mutations, so yeah add that to the list since it offers something more involved. I had said Tilt Filters because people would see it as something different. I would much rather just buy the IR's from Numerical Sound directly if I just specifically wanted their reverb impulses. RV7K MKII pretty much makes buying their RE reverbs pointless imho. It may not be "that much cheeper" but I think it makes more sense.

[Djstarski]

great news , i`m looking for a NS10 impulse response . has anyone got one laying around somewhere or any console IR`s ?

For any non-linear process, such as saturation, distortion, etc., convolution is not an ideal solution. Unless you take MANY 'samples' at many different levels and have a device that can interpret those, like you do when you sample many different velocity levels of a dynamic instrument like a piano, guitar, or drums.

The NS-10 IR (if it exists and was recorded in an anechoic chamber or similar and each channel recorded separately) might sound interesting, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to make your monitors sound like NS-10s if that's what you're after…any more than a vocoder makes a synth sound like its "talking". IMO, of course…

i understand what your saying selig  , this idea did not come from me . A while back i went to a seminar , where a guy was taking about impulse response and it was him that said you can add these impulses at the end of your single chain . i would like to try out . The VRM box that focusrite have designed was based on this technology . so i was told .

as i said i would like to test it out for myself .

[avasopht]

I made my point. Yes it's the same thing, but it wasn't like BAM hit me over the head with all the features at once so I must upgrade NOW. I was thinking I'll wait until fall to upgrade in case they decide to put out Reason 9 in Oct/Nov, and 8.3 hasn't changed my mind...

Very true, ... definitely would have had a greater impact if it was one big update.

i understand what your saying selig  , this idea did not come from me . A while back i went to a seminar , where a guy was taking about impulse response and it was him that said you can add these impulses at the end of your single chain . i would like to try out . The VRM box that focusrite have designed was based on this technology . so i was told .

as i said i would like to test it out for myself .

Hmm, wouldn't you also want to deconvolve with the IR of your speakers a little bit (even if just a minimum-phase EQ) otherwise you'll just be hearing the NS10 frequency response through the lens of your current monitors.

[QVprod]

great news , i`m looking for a NS10 impulse response . has anyone got one laying around somewhere or any console IR`s ?

For any non-linear process, such as saturation, distortion, etc., convolution is not an ideal solution. Unless you take MANY 'samples' at many different levels and have a device that can interpret those, like you do when you sample many different velocity levels of a dynamic instrument like a piano, guitar, or drums.

The NS-10 IR (if it exists and was recorded in an anechoic chamber or similar and each channel recorded separately) might sound interesting, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to make your monitors sound like NS-10s if that's what you're after…any more than a vocoder makes a synth sound like its "talking". IMO, of course…

i understand what your saying selig  , this idea did not come from me . A while back i went to a seminar , where a guy was taking about impulse response and it was him that said you can add these impulses at the end of your single chain . i would like to try out . The VRM box that focusrite have designed was based on this technology . so i was told .

as i said i would like to test it out for myself .

FWIW, I'm not sure if VRM box is just regular impulse recordings (I own it), but if it is, then IRs of speakers could be a decent way to check a mix on headphones (if the IRs were recorded in decent rooms). Perhaps make an IR of your car stereo while you're at it 

[Exowildebeest]

Yay, I can also use Ableton's impulses, they're not encrypted or any such bull.

[Exowildebeest]

Am I missing something, or is there no way to access the sample editor from the RV7000?

You can from the browser if it's your own recorded samples, but you can't for any other sample. In Kong etc. you can.

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

Wow, cool to see that Reasontalk is the official nonofficial Propellerhead forum now !!

[Djstarski]

great news , i`m looking for a NS10 impulse response . has anyone got one laying around somewhere or any console IR`s ?

For any non-linear process, such as saturation, distortion, etc., convolution is not an ideal solution. Unless you take MANY 'samples' at many different levels and have a device that can interpret those, like you do when you sample many different velocity levels of a dynamic instrument like a piano, guitar, or drums.

The NS-10 IR (if it exists and was recorded in an anechoic chamber or similar and each channel recorded separately) might sound interesting, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to make your monitors sound like NS-10s if that's what you're after…any more than a vocoder makes a synth sound like its "talking". IMO, of course…

i understand what your saying selig  , this idea did not come from me . A while back i went to a seminar , where a guy was taking about impulse response and it was him that said you can add these impulses at the end of your single chain . i would like to try out . The VRM box that focusrite have designed was based on this technology . so i was told .

as i said i would like to test it out for myself .

FWIW, I'm not sure if VRM box is just regular impulse recordings (I own it), but if it is, then IRs of speakers could be a decent way to check a mix on headphones (if the IRs were recorded in decent rooms). Perhaps make an IR of your car stereo while you're at it 

please don`t shoot the messager . as i said i would like to try it out . if it doesn't at least i tried . now i need to remember how to capture the impulse response of these devices . i know it has something to do with popping a balloon .

[Djstarski]

great news , i`m looking for a NS10 impulse response . has anyone got one laying around somewhere or any console IR`s ?

For any non-linear process, such as saturation, distortion, etc., convolution is not an ideal solution. Unless you take MANY 'samples' at many different levels and have a device that can interpret those, like you do when you sample many different velocity levels of a dynamic instrument like a piano, guitar, or drums.

The NS-10 IR (if it exists and was recorded in an anechoic chamber or similar and each channel recorded separately) might sound interesting, but I certainly wouldn't expect it to make your monitors sound like NS-10s if that's what you're after…any more than a vocoder makes a synth sound like its "talking". IMO, of course…

i understand what your saying selig  , this idea did not come from me . A while back i went to a seminar , where a guy was taking about impulse response and it was him that said you can add these impulses at the end of your single chain . i would like to try out . The VRM box that focusrite have designed was based on this technology . so i was told .

as i said i would like to test it out for myself .

FWIW, I'm not sure if VRM box is just regular impulse recordings (I own it), but if it is, then IRs of speakers could be a decent way to check a mix on headphones (if the IRs were recorded in decent rooms). Perhaps make an IR of your car stereo while you're at it 

please don`t shoot the messenger . as i said i would like to try it out . if it doesn't at least i tried . now i need to remember how to capture the impulse response of these devices . i know it has something to do with popping a balloon .

[GRIFTY]

All these point upgrades seem like backtracking. An admittance that reason 8 was lacking. They make me more excited for reason 9!

[lowpryo]

man with all of these updates, I'm wondering what they're actually saving for Reason 9. maybe we won't see it for a while? after the negative response to R8, I'm sure people will be extra pissed if the features in 9 feel like they should have just been version 8.6 or something. although hats off to them for giving us all of these improvements early on!

[JNeffLind]

Oh snap! Convolution and zoom (finally !!!!) are super cool, but the biggest part of this for me is being able to attach the browser to any window. Having it stuck to the sequencer sounded so terrible that I wasn't even considering the R8 upgrade before now. I had a feeling they'd be tossing some exciting free 8.x updates like this our way, and I am really glad (though my wallet isn't) that they got that issue taken care of in one of them.

Same for me. I'm always wishing I had more space on my sequencer and the idea of losing any was terrible. This makes me very tempted to upgrade though. Couldn't come at a worse time for my wallet though with Emotional Piano coming out soon. ARGHGHGH!!!

At least the future seems bright.

[joeyluck]

People have some weird attachments to numbers lol. Who cares what number it is, if you have Reason 8, this is a free update. If you're on a previous version of Reason and this update has something you appreciate, then upgrade. Who knows when Reason 9 will happen...? Who cares if it all features happen at once or if they happen staggered? It's all still there. I appreciate the surprises!

Reason has been improved for updating with auto-update and with the download being significantly smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the rounds to all the native devices. You're next right, Malstrom?

I'm on Reason 7 and will certainly be upgrading to Reason 8 now for these improvements (RV7000 MkII and browse improvements).
Thank you, Propellerhead.

And folks say they don't look out for loyal customers? Seems Reason 8 users are continuously getting hooked up with improvements they didn't sign up for. And the rest who wait for Reason 9, might be waiting for 7 more point updates? Who knows!

[esselfortium]

All these point upgrades seem like backtracking. An admittance that reason 8 was lacking. They make me more excited for reason 9!

I think more frequent smaller updates like these are probably going to be the usual way of things from now on, since 8.2 made installing updates more seamless.

[Yonatan]

Heading for 8.5 later this fall? ...some time after the new Windows 10 and Sirius iOS...do not think they manage doing a Reason 9 this soon with all the new adjustments to Windows and iOS, and the apps too, and Discover. But a 8.5 might we see well before Christmas. They maybe charge something for a 8.5. Just my guess, but no one knows with Prop, maybe they changed their whole planning, doing all the way to 8.9..all for free. We are lost to speculation.
Whatever...
I do think they are up to very interesting implementations. I will keep stay with Reason. And all the wonderful REs that are being developed. But it is getting very hard now to not upgrade from R7!

[zeebot]

A convolution reverb was one of my requests, would be great if they upgraded all the stock devices as was talked about when REs first arrived. I'm sure props said that they would never do that but it seems at least the effects are getting a facelift.
I think most people ae crying out for a new combinator with more controls.
I'd love to see one of the synths like Malstrom have user loadable tables, that + the new rv would probably make me upgrade to 8.? 

[lowpryo]

People have some weird attachments to numbers lol. Who cares what number it is, if you have Reason 8, this is a free update. If you're on a previous version of Reason and this update has something you appreciate, then upgrade. Who knows when Reason 9 will happen...? Who cares if it all features happen at once or if they happen staggered? It's all still there. I appreciate the surprises!

 
the difference between Reason 8.X and Reason 9 is that one will be free for R8 users, and one will be ~$130 for R8 users (assuming they continue the same pricing model). That's certainly enough of a reason to be concerned about these "numbers" and the value that they provide.
yes we've been getting all of these great free updates, and that's awesome! but if they provide one update that suddenly costs more money because of an arbitrary number (R9), but can't back it up with content to justify the cost, we're going to see a bigger backlash than the R8 situation. that's all I was trying to get at.
also i just want to note that this isn't a complaint, i'm happy with the current model. I just think it's an interesting conversation to have because they are clearly adapting a new philosophy with their update releases.

[EnochLight]

Am I missing something, or is there no way to access the sample editor from the RV7000?

You can from the browser if it's your own recorded samples, but you can't for any other sample. In Kong etc. you can.

Any impulse/sample you load into RV7000 yourself can be edited as any other sample that is loaded into Reason - go to your "Song Samples" in Reason's browser.  Anything loaded into RV7000 will show up under 'Assigned Samples".  Select it.  Hit "Edit" at the bottom of your window.  You'll get Reason's familiar sample editor up.

That said, there's no way to call up the sample editor directly from within RV7000.  Also, you can't edit the 3 included impulses in the editor.   :frown:

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

Am I missing something, or is there no way to access the sample editor from the RV7000?

Yeah, an 'Edit' button would be nice, but you can right-click the RV7000 display to access the sample editor !

[Yonatan]

How do you use Quick Zoom?