Beginner Problem

[2nd Prez]

Hey guys,

I have what I hope is a fairly common/easy question

I am making rap beats. I have a regular bass kick drum (as in a short kick) going in the song and the 808 kick from thor. they seem to be fighting against each other in the mix.

in a part of the song where the 808 stops, the redrum kick becomes much louder and more defined.

if anyone knows how to let them live in harmony please let me know

thanks. I have reason 5 if that helps

here are some examples   @ 2:03 and 0:23   https://soundcloud.com/2ndprez/04-back-in

[gak]

I hear it. But to be honest, I'm not sure why. W/O knowing your setup, it's all hit and miss....so so (right or wrong) as I'm 8.2 and don't know "5".  Are you feeding the kicks together in the output? It seems as though there is a comp somewhere where the threshold is somehow not correct.

[2nd Prez]

When you say feeding together do you mean through the same mixer channel? That would be no as Thor had its Chanel and redrum it's own. What do you mean by setup and I can fill you in?

[Benedict]

Hi

You are experiencing "Masking". When two thing happen in the same frequency area then the louder will mask the quieter.

Also seeing as you are putting two Kik drums together and the mix is seriously (too) bassy then everything is fighting as it tries to go through the same little hole. Have a read of this article as it will start to set you on the right path.

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/08/11 ... ing-music/

You can make a nice sounding mix of this as there are some good elements. Just need to make a focus and mix from that. Hint: bass is a poor focus, esp. when it is so wide as it is making me feel unwell - chose a melody or vocal line to be your focus for the track.

[2nd Prez]

Hi

You are experiencing "Masking". When two thing happen in the same frequency area then the louder will mask the quieter.

Also seeing as you are putting two Kik drums together and the mix is seriously (too) bassy then everything is fighting as it tries to go through the same little hole. Have a read of this article as it will start to set you on the right path.

http://benedictroffmarsh.com/2013/08/11 ... ing-music/

You can make a nice sounding mix of this as there are some good elements. Just need to make a focus and mix from that. Hint: bass is a poor focus, esp. when it is so wide as it is making me feel unwell - chose a melody or vocal line to be your focus for the track.

Alrighty will check it out thanks for the help man

[FGL]

Try some of the mixing tools. As there are Mclass Maximizer and Mclass Compressor. Which allows you to adjust differences in volume. And also look into some Youtube or other Tutorials about this.

[gak]

When you say feeding together do you mean through the same mixer channel? That would be no as Thor had its Chanel and redrum it's own. What do you mean by setup and I can fill you in?

Benedict is probably right.

[Higor]

Nice pleasant sounds but no kick bass punch...
This couldn't be a phase issue?
In reason 8 there is an easy button to verify this, but in reason 5 i have no idea.

[Blizzz]

I'm actually having this same issue.  I've been using Reason since 2.0 and can not for the life of me figure out this issue that has just popped up.  It's not just bass, it does the same thing with a simple synth.  I've recreated the project thinking that might help but it didn't.

If you play a section with a decent amount going on it all sounds terribly muffled (which is fine, this is a new track) but then when you go to just a single track, without changing the volume of that track it remains low and muffled until about halfway through the measure and the volume cranks up a good 50% on it with no automation present.  This is driving me mad so if anyone has any insight I would love to hear it.

[selig]

This COULD be masking, but it's also likely to be compression since an 808 kick (typically with a longer decay) and a short kick won't actually be present together for very long to create the traditional masking effect, which needs to have both sounds at equal frequencies, levels, AND durations in order to mask effectively. If it were masking, the effect would disappear as soon as the short kick finished, leaving the 808 on it's own and therefor "un-masked" as it were. But that's not what the OP described if I'm understanding correctly.

Mix compression, OTOH, sounds like a more likely candidate for this effect (and the one Blizzz describes above). 

How else would the short kick suddenly become not only more defined, but also LOUDER when the 808 kick goes away? 

Here's the test - remove ALL compression from the entire signal path between the kicks and the final output. No channel compression, no drum bus compression, no Master Compressor or Master Insert compression/limiting - NOTHING. Now listen again and see if the same effect is present.

IF it turns out compression is causing this, it's another reason I tend to suggest NOT to mix with compression on (unless you are an expert at doing so, or have the time and patience to become one!). But I'll refrain from that suggestion until the culprit has been identified.

[Blizzz]

Hah this is embarassing, I think I just had my volume too low.  It's been a couple months since I played around.  I usually like to put the volume on the headphones 1/3 higher than I would listen to it, then make a normal sounding track so I then have that 1/3 extra to boost certain freqs / sounds if I want.  I was overloading something even though it wasn't even close to showing clipping.  What I don't understand now, is why nearly all my sounds are at very low volume levels in the track but still sound so loud (this has never been the case).  It's almost like they're being amplified for no reason.  Very weird behavior.  I'll post back if I find anything else.

[Puckboy2000]

Nice pleasant sounds but no kick bass punch...
This couldn't be a phase issue?
In reason 8 there is an easy button to verify this, but in reason 5 i have no idea.

I just upgraded to 8. Where is the button to check phase issues? And how do you correct this? I noticed I get this problem in the low end. Thanks.

[ScuzzyEye]

I just upgraded to 8. Where is the button to check phase issues? And how do you correct this? I noticed I get this problem in the low end. Thanks.

In the Mixer view, scroll all the way to the top. In the Input section there's an "Inv" button. Press it on the channel where you want to invert the phase. If it sounds better, leave it that way.

[Tincture]

The 808 kick has a huge peak after its short attack, it then has a quite a long decay, sustain and release phase... It stays around ! This will effect/mask any other kick associated with it... any compression will effect the loudest first.... i.e. the 808 in this case... my advice would be to lower the volume of the 808 and increase the ATTACK of any compressors so that the attack of the 2nd kick might shine through. A general rule to get more punch too

[Puckboy2000]

I just upgraded to 8. Where is the button to check phase issues? And how do you correct this? I noticed I get this problem in the low end. Thanks.

In the Mixer view, scroll all the way to the top. In the Input section there's an "Inv" button. Press it on the channel where you want to invert the phase. If it sounds better, leave it that way.

Thanks!!!