Music Theory help

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paulm0000
Posts: 42
Joined: 28 Apr 2015

23 May 2015

Hi

So over the years I've always followed the rule if it sounds right it probably is right, but a lately I've been using a lot more acapellas and I think its time to study my music theory and learn a bit about it.

I've found an a capella which is Ab -.......now this is where my "abosolute neglect of music theory" rears its ugly head....what I've figure so far is this a 'A Flat' ....correct or wrong?

what I want to learn is once I know what key a song or acapella is in , how do I know what piano keys/notes can be played with in this key?

I'm hoping someone can help me out or point in the direction of very basic easy to understand information on that matter :) .

I've managed so far , but would be nice to be able to know what's actually going on in my tracks or be able to say to a vocalist oh its in this key instead of saying , ' ermm I used C F E A D ' in the riff lol

Thanks
 

Ronin
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23 May 2015


I find this handy to quickly see what notes are in a chord or scale:

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

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Gaja
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23 May 2015

Well Ab- means A flat minor. Or is it just Ab? That would be A flat major. You can count the steps and get to your scale like this:
Major scale: 1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2 Major chord: 0,4,3
Minor scale: 1,1/2,1,1,1/2,1,1 Minor chord: 0,3,4
This is counting from the root note (which is Ab)
Major: Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab
Minor: Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab (which is why you wouldn't use this enharmonic context, but use G#minor instead)
The root or tonic is Ab.. The sub-dominant is Db (when in Ab minor it's Db minor), the dominant is Eb
the dominant tends to lead back to the tonic, so it is often found at the end of the progression, the sub dominant kind of leads to the dominant.
Used in the order of sub dominant, dominant, tonic, these three chords form a classic cadency.
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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paulm0000
Posts: 42
Joined: 28 Apr 2015

23 May 2015

Gaja wrote:Well Ab- means A flat minor. Or is it just Ab? That would be A flat major. You can count the steps and get to your scale like this:
Major scale: 1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2 Major chord: 0,4,3
Minor scale: 1,1/2,1,1,1/2,1,1 Minor chord: 0,3,4
This is counting from the root note (which is Ab)
Major: Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab
Minor: Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab (which is why you wouldn't use this enharmonic context, but use G#minor instead)
The root or tonic is Ab.. The sub-dominant is Db (when in Ab minor it's Db minor), the dominant is Eb
the dominant tends to lead back to the tonic, so it is often found at the end of the progression, the sub dominant kind of leads to the dominant.
Used in the order of sub dominant, dominant, tonic, these three chords form a classic cadency.

Sort of get the counting part ,but the rest I've too learn thanks for sharing :)
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paulm0000
Posts: 42
Joined: 28 Apr 2015

23 May 2015

Ronin wrote: I find this handy to quickly see what notes are in a chord or scale:

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

This a great page man !!, this will help in conjunction with gajas counting I should start to make sense of it

Hopefully lol. Thanks !!
 

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ProfessaKaos
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24 May 2015

Here's some sites that really hit home with me learning about music theory.

Highly recommend getting one of these, not only does it show what chords work well together of all major and minor keys but it is also shows the notes of each key's scale, what notes make up each chord and much more.
http://www.chordwheel.com/

This youtube channel by Michael New is really good and eye opening I found as he explains things very well. I would start at lesson one and work through.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Rhaptapsody/videos

https://www.basicmusictheory.com/


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gak
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24 May 2015

As has been mentioned (though under different guises) the first thing to understand is the circle of 5ths/cycle of 4ths. Why? Because it gives you an excellent understand of diatonic notes and how they relate.

It is unimportant to worry about much else at this point. That's the next step :)

However, if you memorize this, it is the basis for everything else. Then, you can go from there.

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gak
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24 May 2015

One other thing to mention, even if you SUCK at math, realistically music "theory" is math, and it's really not that hard. Like I said in understand the diatonic/circle/cycle thing, it gives you an edge. Don't worry about how long it takes. Soak it up, digest it, memorize it. 

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paulm0000
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24 May 2015

Thanks   @professakaos ill check  out the links,

@gak ive come across abit concerning the circle of fifths at few times now, but didnt know if i was on the right path.
 

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gak
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24 May 2015

You are, the reason is because it's a FOUNDATION for everything else. It's not an end, it's the beginning of a journey :)

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Gaja
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24 May 2015

Gaja wrote:Well Ab- means A flat minor. Or is it just Ab? That would be A flat major. You can count the steps and get to your scale like this:
Major scale: 1,1,1/2,1,1,1,1/2 Major chord: 0,4,3
Minor scale: 1,1/2,1,1,1/2,1,1 Minor chord: 0,3,4
This is counting from the root note (which is Ab)
Major: Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab
Minor: Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab (which is why you wouldn't use this enharmonic context, but use G#minor instead)
The root or tonic is Ab.. The sub-dominant is Db (when in Ab minor it's Db minor), the dominant is Eb
the dominant tends to lead back to the tonic, so it is often found at the end of the progression, the sub dominant kind of leads to the dominant.
Used in the order of sub dominant, dominant, tonic, these three chords form a classic cadency.
paulm0000 wrote:

Sort of get the counting part ,but the rest I've too learn thanks for sharing :)
Yeah sorry I nerded out about Ab minor. You can use it, but it has 7bs, meaning that every note is flat, as opposed to 'only' 5 sharps in g# minor. Both of which *absolutely* use the same tones, but enharmonically are different (which is something the study of the circle of fifths can reveal). Meaning for example they both contain the sounding 'B', but it's actually noted as Cb, when in the key of Ab minor, which overly complicates things for the musician.
The functional harmonics (tonic sub dominant, dominant) is something you just have to hear/feel. Of course there are theoretic works about this, but it won't help much unless you hear what they're talking about.
For someone who doesn't know the circle of fifths by heart it practically could work like this:
Determine the Root key. -Ab in this case
Then use the counting method to establish your pool of notes. Now you can build Major or minor chords from every note in your scale using only the notes from your pool (except for one, which is diminished -0,3,3). These are functional chords within your tonal context, as in you can use any of them without them sounding far off. Now some of these function better for certain purposes. We usually say we're "at home" at the root key and the dominant helps you "get home". It is build using a major 7 chord (the 7 adds a note two halfsteps down the root - that would be a Db added to the Eb major chord dominating your scale) from the fifth note in your scale. When you play the Dominant7 chord, you might feel its desire to resolve the Tension created between the 7 and the 3. It resolves in the tonic. Play the Eb7 chord and then play an Ab chord after. You'll be "home" again.
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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ProfessaKaos
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24 May 2015

paulm0000 wrote:Thanks   @professakaos ill check  out the links,

@gak ive come across abit concerning the circle of fifths at few times now, but didnt know if i was on the right path.
The Chord Wheel link is the Circle of Fifths on steriods, you can also get it as an iphone app. and on their site they in the "How it works" section has some very good basic music theory and how the wheels works information.
Reason 12 & 11.3 Suite PC- Windows 10, AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, Asus ROG CROSSHAIR Dark Hero VIII, 64GB G.Skill 3600C16 RAM, 980 Pro Samsung M.2, RTX3060.

https://soundcloud.com/juo-jual
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNLcE ... DjhSI16TqQ

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paulm0000
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Joined: 28 Apr 2015

24 May 2015

paulm0000 wrote:Thanks   @professakaos ill check  out the links,

@gak ive come across abit concerning the circle of fifths at few times now, but didnt know if i was on the right path.
ProfessaKaos wrote:
The
ProfessaKaos wrote:Chord Wheel
ProfessaKaos wrote: link is the Circle of Fifths on steriods, you can also get it as an iphone app. and on their site they in the "How it works" section has some very good basic music theory and how the wheels works information.
Thanks kaos I've taken what you have said with the link of the keyboard and scales etc , along with gajas knowledge , looked at some videos using the fifth wheel and figured out how it works.

I've applied this new knowledge to a track I'm currently working on and I've previously selected the right notes , so I can by ear find the correct notes but I'm still to learn why and how :)

 

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paulm0000
Posts: 42
Joined: 28 Apr 2015

24 May 2015

Never actually thought to look on app store lol
 

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