Anyone an SDK user?

[rcbuse]

if you look around the net there are so many resources for developing audio plugins for other formats.

http://www.martin-finke.de/blog/

etc.  but that's just not possible with RE because of the NDA.

Almost everything on Martin Finke's blog would be directly applicable to coding REs.  The difference between VSTs, AUs, and REs is the low level calls that fill audio buffers and hooking up to the UI widgets.  So anything you find online about about writing C++ audio plugins can be applied to REs as well. 

[zakalwe]

if you look around the net there are so many resources for developing audio plugins for other formats.

http://www.martin-finke.de/blog/

etc.  but that's just not possible with RE because of the NDA.

Almost everything on Martin Finke's blog would be directly applicable to coding REs.  The difference between VSTs, AUs, and REs is the low level calls that fill audio buffers and hooking up to the UI widgets.  So anything you find online about about writing C++ audio plugins can be applied to REs as well. 

thanks man.  well, i'm gonna work through his blog over the summer so i'll see about signing up after that.

[Raveshaper]

And as for sharing the information about how to do things. What use is it to share with people who can't do anything with it?

It might have been you that said this to me, I don't recall. Let me elaborate.

As an independent researcher and investigative user who is not registered to have access to the SDK, I have developed on my own time the following features that I haven't seen implemented anywhere by anyone:
- virtual pad page system for live triggering of up to 1024 samples per 4x4 pad controller
- non-destructive toggleable CC routing for real time adjustment of multiple parameters from a limited number of hardware controls
- precise inverse function for perfect sync of sample pitch bend and tempo speed for advanced resampling and automatic beat matching

My latest project involves free running event handlers that effectively turn remote scripts into scalable information networks, wherein each script and rack device bound to them can "talk" to each other and react, thus turning the entire rack itself into something akin to a huge combinator limited only by the imagination and handiwork of the user.

We're talking about a noninvasive way to mod in some requested features, and even features that might not be requested but would have instant utility to many.

I did all of this by reading public information, reverse engineering, and brute forcing results by trial and error when things stopped making sense. This is something anyone can do. I wouldn't have to spend so much time if I had access to the SDK, I get that. But if I sign up, all of that work is gone.

Want to play Reason live with 64 pages of 16 pads on your controller? Sorry, can't show you how.

Want to do advanced time manipulated resampling of audio? It's possible, but can't tell you.

Want to build your own freely routable virtual midi cables with per control precision, use cardinal splines to design and record your own custom synthesizer waveforms, build CC spiders, or super knobs whose effect changes based on sectors within their full range? If I sign up, all of what I'm working on is gone and nobody benefits from it.

If they can't use it why bother? I'm using the half of this stuff that I've already built right now. Anyone who wants to have a go can have their shot when it's cleaned up and ready. All they need is a MIDI controller and they can run my code. This is what everyone could be doing -- building solutions to common complaints, or even creating new features no one else has. That isn't happening because of the closed door policy.

In the context of that vacuum, it's a good thing people like me exist. Also within that context, it is a sad thing we can't have a thriving hub of discussion about this to come up with new and amazing ideas we all can grow from. I'm just one guy, but look what I'm doing. Imagine what all of us could do.

Edit: in case this isn't clear, this is just interfacing with MIDI hardware. PH does not hold copyright on MIDI or LUA. But still couldn't talk about my work if I signed up. Because no legal basis wins.

[avasopht]

Hmm, are you sure you can't share remote maps or drivers, or talk about anything remote related? Sound on sound made an article on remote, ... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/a ... h_0307.htm

Note: RE SDK is not Remote SDK

[KEVMOVE02]

QwaizanG, it seems to me that you are more interested in engaging in the debate (which I can appreciate) about Propellerhead's developer policies than actually becoming an RE developer. Just submit an application and sign the NDA. Otherwise, Propellerhead is not only within their rights to deny you access, but it makes sense. Who wants to share trade secrets with someone who publicly delclares they will tell anyone who will listen everything they know about your development tools and products?

[submonsterz]

QwaizanG, it seems to me that you are more interested in engaging in the debate (which I can appreciate) about Propellerhead's developer policies than actually becoming an RE developer. Just submit an application and sign the NDA. Otherwise, Propellerhead is not only within their rights to deny you access, but it makes sense. Who wants to share trade secrets with someone who publicly delclares they will tell anyone who will listen everything they know about your development tools and products?

lol the real funny thing is just this . The nda is worth shit to normal users or interested party's etc etc that wanna get a base line of knowing what's involved etc. Now any one that would want to steal thier ideas or trade secrets will firstly know how and be able to decompile all code etc etc. Also if they want to see the sdk they can register as it's just so easy to do as said and be Mr x of x company neither that exist . And just take and find out what they want as easy as that . So all this nda crap is just that crap . It won't stop nobody accept making a cloak and dagger scenerio between company and users and the devs and the knowing of how much work they put in to make x pluggs for x amount and if the effort was really worth the pay per hour to make . It's just that simple. It's not protecting nothing at all technology wise it's open for anyone to see accept the simple minded user and that's exactly as they are treated as simple minded because of it .

[Exowildebeest]

QwaizanG, it seems to me that you are more interested in engaging in the debate (which I can appreciate) about Propellerhead's developer policies than actually becoming an RE developer. Just submit an application and sign the NDA. Otherwise, Propellerhead is not only within their rights to deny you access, but it makes sense. Who wants to share trade secrets with someone who publicly delclares they will tell anyone who will listen everything they know about your development tools and products?

lol the real funny thing is just this . The nda is worth shit to normal users or interested party's etc etc that wanna get a base line of knowing what's involved etc. Now any one that would want to steal thier ideas or trade secrets will firstly know how and be able to decompile all code etc etc. Also if they want to see the sdk they can register as it's just so easy to do as said and be Mr x of x company neither that exist . And just take and find out what they want as easy as that . So all this nda crap is just that crap . It won't stop nobody accept making a cloak and dagger scenerio between company and users and the devs and the knowing of how much work they put in to make x pluggs for x amount and if the effort was really worth the pay per hour to make . It's just that simple. It's not protecting nothing at all technology wise it's open for anyone to see accept the simple minded user and that's exactly as they are treated as simple minded because of it .

Have you considered that it might be for legal coverage?

I.e. of course any person wanting to give information to a competing company can just sign up and spy anyway - but the NDA and/or whatever else that has to be signed and done may provide legal basis for action by Propellerheads against any "industrial espionage". It's not a fence. It's the operating system for the guard drones that come after you if you misbehave

[Exowildebeest]

That said, I concede that the NDA is a bit annoying for users (and for developers who want to engage their users) who constantly have to speculate and guess at what's possible and what's not, often transforming simple feature requests into complex discussions.

[submonsterz]

QwaizanG, it seems to me that you are more interested in engaging in the debate (which I can appreciate) about Propellerhead's developer policies than actually becoming an RE developer. Just submit an application and sign the NDA. Otherwise, Propellerhead is not only within their rights to deny you access, but it makes sense. Who wants to share trade secrets with someone who publicly delclares they will tell anyone who will listen everything they know about your development tools and products?

lol the real funny thing is just this . The nda is worth shit to normal users or interested party's etc etc that wanna get a base line of knowing what's involved etc. Now any one that would want to steal thier ideas or trade secrets will firstly know how and be able to decompile all code etc etc. Also if they want to see the sdk they can register as it's just so easy to do as said and be Mr x of x company neither that exist . And just take and find out what they want as easy as that . So all this nda crap is just that crap . It won't stop nobody accept making a cloak and dagger scenerio between company and users and the devs and the knowing of how much work they put in to make x pluggs for x amount and if the effort was really worth the pay per hour to make . It's just that simple. It's not protecting nothing at all technology wise it's open for anyone to see accept the simple minded user and that's exactly as they are treated as simple minded because of it .

Have you considered that it might be for legal coverage?

I.e. of course any person wanting to give information to a competing company can just sign up and spy anyway - but the NDA and/or whatever else that has to be signed and done may provide legal basis for action by Propellerheads against any "industrial espionage". It's not a fence. It's the operating system for the guard drones that come after you if you misbehave

anyone that wanted to steal it won't be found and won't exist in the first place I'm shure they won't be able to track most people that would want to steal something as if they are smart they will be anonymous from the very start the drones will have a hard job passing go not alone finding out who or why lol. It's still all bullshit from start to finnish.

[Exowildebeest]

 anyone that wanted to steal it won't be found and won't exist in the first place I'm shure they won't be able to track most people that would want to steal something as if they are smart they will be anonymous from the very start the drones will have a hard job passing go not alone finding out who or why lol. It's still all bullshit from start to finnish.

That's a very silly thing to say.

Tech companies sue each other all the time. It's totally normal to have a legal framework for doing so.

Much of that is bullshit patent-trolling and war between megacorporations, but it's also part of how smaller companies protect their intellectual property and inventions. Don't forget that RE's are a relatively high-tech thing, managed by Propellerheads in quite a direct, hands on way.

[avasopht]

I'm not particularly fond of the NDA and a few other details about how they choose to communicate, but this is what it is. I could either moan and gripe about it or just get on with CREATING.

[avasopht]

That being said, the development process is awesome. Being able to create a skeumorphic GUI in such a short time with such a seamless process is like music to my ears.

[rcbuse]

thanks man.  well, i'm gonna work through his blog over the summer so i'll see about signing up after that.

I also highly recommend will pickle's books: http://www.willpirkle.com/  Both are great resources for fx and synths written in C++.

[ScuzzyEye]

I also highly recommend will pickle's books: http://www.willpirkle.com/  Both are great resources for fx and synths written in C++.

I'll second this. Through resources available to RE developers I recently found out about these books. Half-way through the Effects one now. It is excellent. The author does have his own plug-in framework that he uses for examples, but the DSP code is easily ported to use with the RE SDK. The theory presented is the killer part though. He covers things I thought I knew, but in a way that gives me much better insight as to what's really happening.

[Raveshaper]

I'm putting this to rest. I've requested legal confirmation of how or if the NDA applies to Remote.
I base my belief on the fact that my search of "reason remote handle_input" returned my own thread here asking for clarification, followed by science papers.
No one's talking about it, so I'm guessing they can't.

[ScuzzyEye]

I'm putting this to rest. I've requested legal confirmation of how or if the NDA applies to Remote.
I base my belief on the fact that my search of "reason remote handle_input" returned my own thread here asking for clarification, followed by science papers.
No one's talking about it, so I'm guessing they can't.

Or no one cares to publish their Remote sources because they aren't useful to anyone but the developer.

Livid Instruments has worked closely with Propellerhead. And they made their source available:
https://github.com/LividInstruments/Rea ... d/Base.lua

[Raveshaper]

I applied. I figured by the time they get back to me I would like to be able to learn something, so I went ahead.
Interesting thing: it says "fields with asterisk are required", but it doesn't highlight them with an actual asterisk.
The old school red site design is still there on the request submission page.

Edit: B-but, Remote...You can effectively mod Reason with it. Like Combinators and CV having an Nth dimensional baby.

[stfual]

 anyone that wanted to steal it won't be found and won't exist in the first place I'm shure they won't be able to track most people that would want to steal something as if they are smart they will be anonymous from the very start the drones will have a hard job passing go not alone finding out who or why lol. It's still all bullshit from start to finnish

.

When i cared about this stuff Software services companies used to be valued at between 2-3 times annual revenues depending on the quality of the people and the forward order book. Software companies 10 - <Infinity times annual revenues depending mostly on hype and patents. People sulk, quit or just get old.  Exploitable IP is the gift that keeps on giving.