Which one has better value Reason+Rigs $846 or Komplete Ultimate $999

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Alkua
Posts: 281
Joined: 30 Apr 2015

06 May 2015

In my case, Reason is the only music production program that keeps me inspired, but it will be cool to use Native Instruments in Reason.

So, I go for Reason+Rigs

avasopht
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

06 May 2015

On one hand Komplete Ultimate does not include a DAW, but on the other hand Komplete Ultimate is by far the most complete collection you'll ever find within that price range. It is a monster!!!

The only reason I don't use it is because TBH, I can create my sound just fine with my refills and I prefer using Reason. Sometimes I do think about some of the sounds I have in Komplete where there is no equivalent, but again, I am more than satisfied with what I can create with my much smaller collection of Reason sounds.

But sound for sound, Komplete is orders of magnitudes stronger. EASILY. And yeah, Reason keeps me inspired.

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jfrichards
Posts: 1306
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

06 May 2015

Another good alternative would be Logic + Amplitube Metal + Sylenth + $500 to trade in for a Mac = $950.  Still not quite as inspiring as Reason to use, from my perspective.

There are numerous under-$1000 choices these days that will knock your socks off.  These are all million dollar studio setups.  Every High School should have DAW classes.  To hell with UMG, Sony and Warner.

PS, I bought Reaktor 5.8 when it was on sale for $99, sure do love that baby.

MDTerps2015
Posts: 416
Joined: 25 Jan 2015

06 May 2015

I kind of wished Guitar Center did a DAW class in my local area. They have all kinds of workshops but none for DAW'. I wonder if Reason has an entire solely dedicated to using just Reason. I know a lot of guys offer certain classes for certain DAW's but im talking like a college level Reason 101, 102, 103 etc.
150 paid RExtensions and still no Grammy

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jfrichards
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06 May 2015

MDTerps2015 wrote:...a lot of guys offer certain classes for certain DAW's but im talking like a college level Reason 101, 102, 103 etc.
Rob of Reason101 dot net offers a Reason 201 college level textbook for $40 (b&w PDF)
http://www.reason101.net/products/reaso ... ason-rack/

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Ashpool
Posts: 128
Joined: 21 Apr 2015

06 May 2015

I have both and I think you cannot compare them.

Native Instruments offer a huge library of unique and high quality Synths, FX and sounds.
And if it comes to modular "anything" - Reaktor is a beast!

I mainly used Ableton and NI Komplete just a while ago but recently returned to Reason because I like the workflow in Reason that much.
Since I am more experienced with Komplete, that's most probably the reason why I think you can create slightly (!) better sounds with NI's stuff.
But now that I am diggin deeper and deeper in Reason I discovered that thanks to some RE's you can get really close to NI quality.

And most important for me: Reason is total fun! :s0221:

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Alkua
Posts: 281
Joined: 30 Apr 2015

06 May 2015

I agree with you guys. Even thought, If Propellerhead can get at least Kontakt and Massive available I will lock down in Reason Forever.



tibah
Posts: 903
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

06 May 2015

Tough call.

In theory, Komplete is the better option, but if you have to use it in an environment you can't use the way you use Reason, there's little point in getting all these sounds. IMO of course! :) I took 3 years, money (G.A.S.) and way too much time to recognize that Reason is and always was the gateway for my creativity. It's nice to have an arsenal of great sounds just waiting for you to find them, but the same is true for Reason and e.g. Reaktor needs a life-time on its own to discover all the great goodies inside and outside. 

If you are fine in using something else to finish your tracks or to use additional sounds along with Reason, forget what I said and get Komplete.

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Kazz
Posts: 95
Joined: 07 Mar 2015

06 May 2015

Komplete has a lot of great stuff in it, but I still use Reason a lot more than Komplete and Logic because I like the workflow a lot more and it's generally more fun to me.

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tyerac
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Joined: 23 Feb 2015

06 May 2015

why not have both?

 I mean, have Reason as your DAW, and get Komplete as your sound sources. 

 Thats how I use my studio, Reason is my only DAW, and i'm using loopback on my Focusrite Saffire pro 40 to route the audio triggered from Reasons midi out for Komplete instruments (Kontakt, Massive etc) and recording it back into reason.

 Definitely 2 different beasts as others have said but they work SOOOO good togethor.
I'm keeping it ALL in Reason.... Within Reason.

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Alkua
Posts: 281
Joined: 30 Apr 2015

06 May 2015

tyerac wrote:why not have both?

 I mean, have Reason as your DAW, and get Komplete as your sound sources. 

 Thats how I use my studio, Reason is my only DAW, and i'm using loopback on my Focusrite Saffire pro 40 to route the audio triggered from Reasons midi out for Komplete instruments (Kontakt, Massive etc) and recording it back into reason.

 Definitely 2 different beasts as others have said but they work SOOOO good togethor.
That sound Good. You should make a quick small video to see how you do it. 

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tyerac
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06 May 2015

Funny you ask.... here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY6iSnyyYas

Bare in mind this is on a MAC. I don't use a PC in my studio so it might be different, especially the Hosting AU program.
I'm keeping it ALL in Reason.... Within Reason.

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Alkua
Posts: 281
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06 May 2015

tyerac wrote:Funny you ask.... here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY6iSnyyYas

 Bare in mind this is on a MAC. I don't use a PC in my studio so it might be different, especially the Hosting AU program.

Nice! I like it. Thanks

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devilfish
Posts: 183
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

06 May 2015

What about the Waves VST Plugins?

The Intrancer
Posts: 132
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06 May 2015

Sorta like comparing apples and oranges as Reason is a dedicated DAW environment so logically you should be first comparing what DAW's are available and suited to your liking and adapting anything you want to add in the future to it. Whilst there are various ways to get VST /instrument sounds/ other sound sources into Reason, and using loopback capable hardware, it's not without issue's which other VST dedicated Daws are better suited in handling due to settings and automation parameters being saved much more easily on a per project basis and also having to jump through more hoops within Reason.

If you are using Loopback with Reason whilst using external sources, you must always be cautious of feedback loops which can blow out both your ears and possibly damage your speakers/monitors or both depending on your sound levels, so it's pretty critical in that you know the peak level input you need to set to prevent this, both on the Mix Control software (if using a Focusrite interface) and Reason's audio track.

Whilst being a long time experienced Reason user/composer myself since 2001, and also spent a considerable amount (probably around £240) on RE's to fill the gaps and update Reason's aging devices within Reason 6.5 / 7.0, I do feel that both myself and money is trapped in a hole with the program. The stuff is always there if I want to use it but the last time I actually composed any music with it was really about a year ago I feel. I stopped buying Rack Extensions 2 years ago as well, because Native Instruments gave Reaktor away for less than the price of a Reason upgrade. £87 inc vat (watch out in May/June time this year in case they do it again).

I bought a few of the really cool ensembles such as Razor, Skanner XT, Spark, and Kontour more recently and used them in one of my recent productions in another daw which I'll come to in a bit. However besides the 80+ ensembles included, the online user library for Reaktor is huge and there's lots of cool free ensemble stuff to check out and use with your music or if it excites you, modify/or build your own, which while is initially daunting is both rewarding and exciting and allows you to go much deeper than what you can in Reason without access to the RE-SDK.

Check out this thread I created to which highlights some of these ensemble gems :-)

http://www.reasontalk.com/post/the-esse ... 1286628364

As for the choice of Daws, well..for me.. I'm finding that since acquiring Presonus Studio One Professional 2 in the Black Friday deals back in December, I've not made any music in Reason as such. Using it simply as a beat creation tool to export wave files was about as far as it went. Exclusive pictures of a new version of Studio One, version 3 were revealed a month ago so is probably out due out sometime this year, if anyone's interested.)

Propellerhead's with their debacle that was Reason 8, their skewed marketing direction, closing of the forums has pretty much undermined any incentive to even open Reason nowadays and make properly make music with it like I use to. (It's all a bit weird really).

Each DAW has it's pro's and con's but if you're looking for a host for Native Instruments ensembles, VST's ect, I wouldn't really recommend Reason for anyone going that route although it has to be said that many RE's which were originally VST's have made their way to the Reason rack but of course you're investment is locked to Reason forever but that's another whole kettle of fish...yada yada that banana is an adder.

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tumar
Posts: 385
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

07 May 2015

I got both - Reason 8 and NI Komplete 9. NI Komplete is unbeatable. Not only top notch synths, but also superb plugins - compressors, FX processors, Guitar Rig, Traktor fx etc. Mind also every year free plugin (like Supercharger, Driver or Replika), regular sales, free updates, vouchers send to Komplete registered users etc. It's good to be in NI universe.
Reason is for fun or for sketches.

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tyerac
Posts: 31
Joined: 23 Feb 2015

07 May 2015

Sorta like comparing apples and oranges as Reason is a dedicated DAW environment so logically you should be first comparing what DAW's are available and suited to your liking and adapting anything you want to add in the future to it. Whilst there are various ways to get VST /instrument sounds/ other sound sources into Reason, and using loopback capable hardware, it's not without issue's which other VST dedicated Daws are better suited in handling due to settings and automation parameters being saved much more easily on a per project basis and also having to jump through more hoops within Reason.

If you are using Loopback with Reason whilst using external sources, you must always be cautious of feedback loops which can blow out both your ears and possibly damage your speakers/monitors or both depending on your sound levels, so it's pretty critical in that you know the peak level input you need to set to prevent this, both on the Mix Control software (if using a Focusrite interface) and Reason's audio track. 

Whilst being a long time experienced Reason user/composer myself since 2001, and also spent a considerable amount (probably around £240) on RE's to fill the gaps and update Reason's aging devices within Reason 6.5 / 7.0, I do feel that both myself and money is trapped in a hole with the program. The stuff is always there if I want to use it but the last time I actually composed any music with it was really about a year ago I feel. I stopped buying Rack Extensions 2 years ago as well, because Native Instruments gave Reaktor away for less than the price of a Reason upgrade. £87 inc vat (watch out in May/June time this year in case they do it again).

I bought a few of the really cool ensembles such as Razor, Skanner XT, Spark, and Kontour more recently and used them in one of my recent productions in another daw which I'll come to in a bit. However besides the 80+ ensembles included, the online user library for Reaktor is huge and there's lots of cool free ensemble stuff to check out and use with your music or if it excites you, modify/or build your own, which while is initially daunting is both rewarding and exciting and allows you to go much deeper than what you can in Reason without access to the RE-SDK.

Check out this thread I created to which highlights some of these ensemble gems :-) 

http://www.reasontalk.com/post/the-esse ... 1286628364

As for the choice of Daws, well..for me.. I'm finding that since acquiring Presonus Studio One Professional 2 in the Black Friday deals back in December, I've not made any music in Reason as such. Using it simply as a beat creation tool to export wave files was about as far as it went. Exclusive pictures of a new version of Studio One, version 3 were revealed a month ago so is probably out due out sometime this year, if anyone's interested.)

Propellerhead's with their debacle that was Reason 8, their skewed marketing direction, closing of the forums has pretty much undermined any incentive to even open Reason nowadays and make properly make music with it like I use to. (It's all a bit weird really).

Each DAW has it's pro's and con's but if you're looking for a host for Native Instruments ensembles, VST's ect, I wouldn't really recommend Reason for anyone going that route although it has to be said that many RE's which were originally VST's have made their way to the Reason rack but of course you're investment is locked to Reason forever but that's another whole kettle of fish...yada yada that banana is an adder. 
 I won't disagree with ANY of this.

 Anyone who uses any DAW, has to use one that first and foremost does what they need it to do. Reason just happens to have the easiest workflow for me personally, so incorporating VST's via the method highlighted in my video is the best of both worlds.

 I have Logic, used Reaper, Studio one, FL Studio & Ableton and Reason still for me has the best and easiest workflow for what I do.

 I agree about the loopback, you do have to be careful and master how to do it or you could get hurt or blow out a tweeter but I'd rather take that risk than have to screw around in other DAW's via rewire or bouncing out.

Your notes about Propellerheads is warranted too.... I'm hoping they get their act back together for R9 and bring us some much needed editing tools.

 I just recently upgraded to a UAD Apollo Twin and am using UAD plugins inside Reason without bouncing (well.... not entirely true about being inside reason but its as close as we'll get :-) )  If you are interested and have UAD Apollo 2 hardware PM ME and i'll be happy to share how. So now, I use Reason as my DAW only for sequencing/arrangement/editing, use none of the stock devices or rack extensions (Even though I bought over $300 of them) because I simply just use Reason for the editing/arrangement and sound sources from omnisphere, Kontakt, or whatever plugin I want.

 Yes its a pain not to have total recall but as i mentioned in my video above, it forces you to work quicker, and develop a faster sense of sound vs recalling and messing with a snare EQ for weeks (I've done that)


I'm keeping it ALL in Reason.... Within Reason.

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mrj1nx
Posts: 90
Joined: 18 Mar 2015

07 May 2015

tyerac wrote:Funny you ask.... here you go :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY6iSnyyYas

 Bare in mind this is on a MAC. I don't use a PC in my studio so it might be different, especially the Hosting AU program.

Alkua wrote:
Nice! I like it. Thanks
Maybe I should try this, I have Komplete as well, just couldn't stand the workflow in Logic compared to Reason... So it's just been gathering dust for about a year now...
 

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Lunesis
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

07 May 2015

Just fyi, you don't need to put youtube vids into html tags, just put the link in there by itself and it will automatically work.

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tyerac
Posts: 31
Joined: 23 Feb 2015

07 May 2015

Just fyi, you don't need to put youtube vids into html tags, just put the link in there by itself and it will automatically work.
Thanks, i'm still learning how to use this, I'll make sure to do that going forward  :s0959:
I'm keeping it ALL in Reason.... Within Reason.

The Intrancer
Posts: 132
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

10 May 2015

Sorta like comparing apples and oranges as Reason is a dedicated DAW environment so logically you should be first comparing what DAW's are available and suited to your liking and adapting anything you want to add in the future to it. Whilst there are various ways to get VST /instrument sounds/ other sound sources into Reason, and using loopback capable hardware, it's not without issue's which other VST dedicated Daws are better suited in handling due to settings and automation parameters being saved much more easily on a per project basis and also having to jump through more hoops within Reason.

If you are using Loopback with Reason whilst using external sources, you must always be cautious of feedback loops which can blow out both your ears and possibly damage your speakers/monitors or both depending on your sound levels, so it's pretty critical in that you know the peak level input you need to set to prevent this, both on the Mix Control software (if using a Focusrite interface) and Reason's audio track. 

Whilst being a long time experienced Reason user/composer myself since 2001, and also spent a considerable amount (probably around £240) on RE's to fill the gaps and update Reason's aging devices within Reason 6.5 / 7.0, I do feel that both myself and money is trapped in a hole with the program. The stuff is always there if I want to use it but the last time I actually composed any music with it was really about a year ago I feel. I stopped buying Rack Extensions 2 years ago as well, because Native Instruments gave Reaktor away for less than the price of a Reason upgrade. £87 inc vat (watch out in May/June time this year in case they do it again).

I bought a few of the really cool ensembles such as Razor, Skanner XT, Spark, and Kontour more recently and used them in one of my recent productions in another daw which I'll come to in a bit. However besides the 80+ ensembles included, the online user library for Reaktor is huge and there's lots of cool free ensemble stuff to check out and use with your music or if it excites you, modify/or build your own, which while is initially daunting is both rewarding and exciting and allows you to go much deeper than what you can in Reason without access to the RE-SDK.

Check out this thread I created to which highlights some of these ensemble gems :-) 

http://www.reasontalk.com/post/the-esse ... 1286628364

As for the choice of Daws, well..for me.. I'm finding that since acquiring Presonus Studio One Professional 2 in the Black Friday deals back in December, I've not made any music in Reason as such. Using it simply as a beat creation tool to export wave files was about as far as it went. Exclusive pictures of a new version of Studio One, version 3 were revealed a month ago so is probably out due out sometime this year, if anyone's interested.)

Propellerhead's with their debacle that was Reason 8, their skewed marketing direction, closing of the forums has pretty much undermined any incentive to even open Reason nowadays and make properly make music with it like I use to. (It's all a bit weird really).

Each DAW has it's pro's and con's but if you're looking for a host for Native Instruments ensembles, VST's ect, I wouldn't really recommend Reason for anyone going that route although it has to be said that many RE's which were originally VST's have made their way to the Reason rack but of course you're investment is locked to Reason forever but that's another whole kettle of fish...yada yada that banana is an adder. 
tyerac wrote:
 I won't disagree with ANY of this.

 Anyone who uses any DAW, has to use one that first and foremost does what they need it to do. Reason just happens to have the easiest workflow for me personally, so incorporating VST's via the method highlighted in my video is the best of both worlds.

 I have Logic, used Reaper, Studio one, FL Studio & Ableton and Reason still for me has the best and easiest workflow for what I do.

 I agree about the loopback, you do have to be careful and master how to do it or you could get hurt or blow out a tweeter but I'd rather take that risk than have to screw around in other DAW's via rewire or bouncing out.

Your notes about Propellerheads is warranted too.... I'm hoping they get their act back together for R9 and bring us some much needed editing tools.

 I just recently upgraded to a UAD Apollo Twin and am using UAD plugins inside Reason without bouncing (well.... not entirely true about being inside reason but its as close as we'll get :-) )  If you are interested and have UAD Apollo 2 hardware PM ME and i'll be happy to share how. So now, I use Reason as my DAW only for sequencing/arrangement/editing, use none of the stock devices or rack extensions (Even though I bought over $300 of them) because I simply just use Reason for the editing/arrangement and sound sources from omnisphere, Kontakt, or whatever plugin I want.

 Yes its a pain not to have total recall but as i mentioned in my video above, it forces you to work quicker, and develop a faster sense of sound vs recalling and messing with a snare EQ for weeks (I've done that)

I'm on the PC platform, and use a Focusrite Pro 14 ( besides an older Focusrite Saffire 6) which I bought to help with the integration of Reaktor 5 as it has the loopback feature that helped with taking the audio into Reason 7. I don't have any UAD hardware, although I may possibly look in the future at expanding my setup interface wise if I add any other hardware. Currently I have 2 61 Key Casio synths, the XW P1 and it's dance production orientated sister the XWG1. They take up the main audio in ports. Picked them both up for total cost of just £390 over a year ago which was about around the normal retail price when released in 2012 for just one of them.

It would be cool to have the Komplete Collection as it would aid in Orchestral Film/Dance based music I create, this is actually one of strengths of Studio One in this field I think that has the edge over Reason, particularly in it's authenticity of it's orchestral instruments, enhanced and dare I say it, superior effect and mastering processing units provide, and lets not forget the video playback window besides the extensive midi editing tools :D

Fruityloops, aka FL Studio still looks it's still in the mids of have a GUI rework that's still a work in progress, ironically I think Reason 8 is still on one of those boats on that front. Personally I don't like the flatness nor the supanova that is Reason 8's GUI, it just doesn't inspire and doesn't look like it integrates with everything else, windows, regroove mixer, SSL ect..    


Tip *For those unaware, you can download a free simple utility called 'loopMIDI' that will allow the connection of Reason's Midiout rack device to trigger midi input in Reaktor ( or other midi based software) so you can play record note within Reason. The loop utility can be set to startup in the background on each boot and be accessed vie it's icon in the taskbar.







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https://soundcloud.com/scott-moncrieff-1 13 Tracks
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Independent views and advice-Digital CGI/Music Artist, Forum Stats & Links Extended- Embrace And Learn From What I Do Or Disengage, It's Your Choice, Life Is Getting Shorter - I've No Time For Cry Babies

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Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

10 May 2015

You'd be a FOOL not to get komplete bro! I bought ultimate a month or so ago and still learning kontak. So many sound libraries to learn,the scripting is unbelievable. Action Strings alone blows anything in Reason out the water. Being able to assign phrases to keyswitches is just a dream come true. I'm staying on kontakt till i master it then move on to reaktor. You get so much with komplete you have to tackle one at a time bro. Go get it you won't  need nothing else for a while.

Hydrosonic
Posts: 81
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

10 May 2015

I agree with MR44HZ ,  seriously the reason sound bank is pretty lame....  Get Komplete it comes with an awesome library and synths plugins etc, plus there are some amazing libraries to buy too.

Want a cheap way in? ;)   Buy Maschine Micro or MK2 full  or studio if you can afford..., you get the hardware and you also get the Maschine 2.x (sort of DAW / Plugin),  Massive, Prism and a few more plugins and sound sets etc, then use the crossgrade option to upgrade it with Komplete!! so you save a fair bit, and gain a bit too :)

I'm super enjoying Maschines workflow, and the sounds from Komplete are damn fine! As a drum/sampler controller it is great! Check some reviews and demos of it first to see if it suites your style.

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Kazz
Posts: 95
Joined: 07 Mar 2015

10 May 2015

Mr44Hz wrote:You'd be a FOOL not to get komplete bro! I bought ultimate a month or so ago and still learning kontak. So many sound libraries to learn,the scripting is unbelievable. Action Strings alone blows anything in Reason out the water. Being able to assign phrases to keyswitches is just a dream come true. I'm staying on kontakt till i master it then move on to reaktor. You get so much with komplete you have to tackle one at a time bro. Go get it you won't  need nothing else for a while.
I like Action Strings, but it's fairly limited...I don't think it's fair to say that it "blows anything in Reason out of the water". There are things from Kontakt and other NI products I'd like to see in Reason, and things from Reason I'f like to see in NI products.

If you like Komplete more than Reason that's fine, but that doesn't mean that it's all objectively clearly better than anything available for Reason.

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Gaja
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11 May 2015

I agree with Kazz.
Of course 40 GB of dedicated material (recorded recently) sound better than one GB of samples recorded in 2000. I couldn't say one has a better value over the other, but Reason + all rigs offers a DAW plus tons and tons of FX and instruments (where orchestral instruments are part of the factory soundbank), whereas Komplete only offers high quality sounds, but no way to use them except standalone. So in the end I'd probably opt formTeason, because clearly it offers the main advantage over komplete, that you can -out of the box- combine fifty tracks of instruments and FX without having to get another DAW first. Reason has a transport and a sequencer. Reason has a mixer. Without something like this Komplete ultimate would be an expensive doorstopper for me.

Edit: also I just checked Reason + all rigs is 726€, whereas Komplete ultimate is 999€ which is a 273€ difference. That means I could buy Reason all rigs + An audio interface for the same price of komplete, which then could only be used one at a time.
Reason clearly wins in that regard
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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