Is there any difference between the db measuring system in Reason and the 127 degree level measuring one?
My midi kbrd senses 127 different positions of its potentiometers which are identical to the db leaps of the db devices, so most probably there isn`t any difference, but then why shouldn`t there be only one standard in measuring?
db level QUESTION
- Benedict
- Competition Winner
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Hi
MIDI uses the range 0-127 but audio is measured in db. There is no actual correlation as any MIDI CC could be used for any sort of control. Also any audio application could use their own custom curves for fader travel.
It is a slight annoyance that the Automation of the SSL Faders only show in seemingly random numbers (an advantage of Selig's Gain RE) but you get used to it - especially if you have a Nektar "P" Controller.
MIDI uses the range 0-127 but audio is measured in db. There is no actual correlation as any MIDI CC could be used for any sort of control. Also any audio application could use their own custom curves for fader travel.
It is a slight annoyance that the Automation of the SSL Faders only show in seemingly random numbers (an advantage of Selig's Gain RE) but you get used to it - especially if you have a Nektar "P" Controller.
Benedict Roff-Marsh
Completely burned and gone
Completely burned and gone
I've done the conversion from Reason's 0-127 levels to decibels and to the SSL Mixer fader levels when automating (0-1000). There are three columns below (repeated to fit on the screen), the 0-127 levels (14:2 and Line Mixer), decibel levels, and the SSL fader automation levels:
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Selig Audio, LLC
- Soft Enerji
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I totally agree! :s0801:Benedict wrote:You are a good egg Selig.
- Sinistereo
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Thank you!selig wrote:I've done the conversion from Reason's 0-127 levels to decibels and to the SSL Mixer fader levels when automating (0-1000). There are three columns below (repeated to fit on the screen), the 0-127 levels (14:2 and Line Mixer), decibel levels, and the SSL fader automation levels:
- Sinistereo
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Decibels (dB) are strange units. Like the Richter scale for earthquakes, db is a logarithmic scale - increasing a signal by 3dB roughly doubles the sound energy; decreasing by 3dB roughly halves the sound energy.
Ears and brains don't pay much attention to chalkboard physics... strangely, you have to increase a signal by about 6dB for most people to notice a difference.
As I'm learning, however, 6dB in a mix is a relatively HUGE difference. Little tweaks make a big difference. Staying in the -16dB to -10dB per channel range for mixing seems to work well.
Ears and brains don't pay much attention to chalkboard physics... strangely, you have to increase a signal by about 6dB for most people to notice a difference.
As I'm learning, however, 6dB in a mix is a relatively HUGE difference. Little tweaks make a big difference. Staying in the -16dB to -10dB per channel range for mixing seems to work well.
- Benedict
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Perception of volume is fascinating. Apparently we have no memory of volume. I can say it was loud but it is my feelings I remember not the actual volume. I was initially taught that the smallest increment a human can hear is 2db but while that may be true for adjusting the volume for the TV, in a mix situation I can definitely hear adjustments in the tenth of a db (0.x).
Volume in a mix is more interesting as you are working also with masking from other sounds in the mix. Drop a sound by 2db and suddenly other sounds start to flow into that gap (especially if the mix is compressed).
Volume in a mix is more interesting as you are working also with masking from other sounds in the mix. Drop a sound by 2db and suddenly other sounds start to flow into that gap (especially if the mix is compressed).
Benedict Roff-Marsh
Completely burned and gone
Completely burned and gone
Perception of volume is "loudness". Since it's a perceived value, it's impossible to fully quantify it. It's one of those values like temperature, where you can't really say exactly what "twice as loud" or "twice as cold" is - it's different for everyone.
Selig Audio, LLC
- forensickbeats
- Posts: 130
- Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Each step of the faders of, lets say - the compressor, makes 2 dB leaps for the first 4 movements of the knob, then the next movement jumps from 8 dB to 9 dB...
So, if I make a compressor with -8dB value and follow it with one with +9dB value, would that "1 dB" value be really quieter then a standard 2 dB leap, since the knob movements would be equal, I hope I make sense...
:t0305: :t0305: :t0305:
:sleep:
***
:nono: :s0959: Okay, looking at it again, this is a rounded value, the leap is roughly the same.
So, if I make a compressor with -8dB value and follow it with one with +9dB value, would that "1 dB" value be really quieter then a standard 2 dB leap, since the knob movements would be equal, I hope I make sense...
:t0305: :t0305: :t0305:
:sleep:
***
:nono: :s0959: Okay, looking at it again, this is a rounded value, the leap is roughly the same.
- Raveshaper
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: 16 Jan 2015
First, thank you selig for taking the time to produce this chart. It's going in my collection. We need more stuff like this.
Second, this is a perfect snapshot of what I mean when I say sink or swim in this program. The OP was confused by different measuring standards. There was no reference to consult. It's terrific that an independent researcher filled the gap, but if someone creates a product they should educate people when it comes to its value and abilities, especially when it comes to confusing aspects like varying standards of measurement. PH should have included this, IMO. Many things just like this are omitted from technical documents.
To PH (more like the void of the Internet):
Less sink or swim, more documentation! We aren't veteran pros with engineering degrees choosing a retro app that's familiar, we're trying to teach ourselves. So don't just let us sink or swim, teach us!
Second, this is a perfect snapshot of what I mean when I say sink or swim in this program. The OP was confused by different measuring standards. There was no reference to consult. It's terrific that an independent researcher filled the gap, but if someone creates a product they should educate people when it comes to its value and abilities, especially when it comes to confusing aspects like varying standards of measurement. PH should have included this, IMO. Many things just like this are omitted from technical documents.
To PH (more like the void of the Internet):
Less sink or swim, more documentation! We aren't veteran pros with engineering degrees choosing a retro app that's familiar, we're trying to teach ourselves. So don't just let us sink or swim, teach us!
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