Reason live with Program Changes?

[normen]

Hey,

I want to use Reason live as a guitar synth with the awesome "MIDI Guitar" software from Jam Origin. I think I can get what I want to work but nevertheless thought about tapping into this great community for some tips on how to set this up.

I am using an Eleven Rack for playing live so I just need to connect my MacBook Air to it via USB to get the clean guitar input into "MIDI Guitar" and route the Reason audio output through the same output my guitar sound is coming from. So far so good.

Now the thing I want is that when I send a Program Change from my pedal board I switch from a guitar sound to a synth sound from Reason. For that I'd set up a preset in the Eleven Rack that simply doesn't output any guitar sound (the ER switches its presets by default when PCs are coming in).

The question is how do I best set up Reason to fit into that. I guess I basically want to unmute a synth when a certain PC is coming in and mute it again when *any other* PC is coming in so I get the quickest possible switch. This is where it gets a bit complicated.

I *could* send a certain CC with every preset as I have a FCB1010 with the "Uno" firmware but as I am controlling a Whammy and some Eleven FX with these and theres only two CC "slots" I can use I don't really want to sacrifice a CC for that. Another option would be to have one of the "static" buttons on the FCB1010 as a general mute/unmute button for Reason but I also don't really want to sacrifice one of those for that as I already use all of them to enable/disable guitar FX separately.

What I *don't* want is to have any other software running aside of Reason (like a MIDI converter or anything like that).

Any ideas on how I could use PC messages with Reason and make it behave basically like a Rompler/Synth?

Cheers,
Normen

[normen]

I have a possible solution.. Using an RPG-8 to generate CV/Gate from MIDI input I can route that to a "Traffic Control" and assign its buttons to single PC messages. Then I can use its CV outputs to go to single synths. Would only allow for 6 different PC messages but actually I don't use more than that because many of my guitar sounds are the same preset but with different FX setups controlled via CCs.

Edit: Duh, scratch that.. Actually Traffic Control is made to route multiple CV inputs to one CV output, not the other way around..  :s0959:

Edit2: Actually, Traffic Control does work, even without a RPG-8.. It has a mode where it sends any received MIDI input to the selected CV output. I guess my problem is solved  Still have to find out what Traffic Control makes from pitch bend though..

Edit3: Sadly Traffic Control doesn't support MIDI pitch bend at all.. :frown:  Back to square one.

[MirEko]

Does robotic beans select RE work with the pitch bend?

[normen]

Does robotic beans select RE work with the pitch bend?

Sadly it also just works the other way around, multiple CV inputs to one CV output.. :/

[Raveshaper]

You may want to develop some custom midi maps to round out the features you're looking for. For example, if you want multiple devices to respond to pitch bend at the same time, you can use control surfaces to route the pitch bend only to devices that are locked to those surfaces.

I have been fighting uphill to complete my live setup, and I have tried almost everything. Binary words, hex values, cv, cc... the only thing I haven't done is dabble with Mackie controls.

I'm in a different focus than the topic, mainly focusing on controlling reason with the Maschine hardware, but I may be able to assist.

[normen]

@TG: Controlling up and down via MIDI is easy, just use the "Additional Remote Overrides" window to assign next track / previous track to any MIDI message.

@QwaizanG: I was thinking about getting BlamSofts "Distributor", then merging the single CV outputs again and using the single pitch bend outputs of each channel for each single device.. Kinda cumbersome but as long as I can do it all in Reason I'd be a happy camper..

Another way might be to roll my own Remote plugin but the requirement of having PCs activate specific instruments and deactivate any other instrument doesn't make this exactly easy.. I wouldn't really want to have to resort to using Apples "Main Stage" which makes what I want trivially easy :/

[normen]

Normen - i think i got the wrong end of the stick with what you are trying to do - maybe this might help?
http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator/overview
there is a free trail...

I do have the awesome MidiPipe for OSX which can do that and more but I don't really want to run any software alongside of Reason.. And if I did the question would also be how do I select a *specific* channel when a certain PC comes in..

[QVprod]

@TG: Controlling up and down via MIDI is easy, just use the "Additional Remote Overrides" window to assign next track / previous track to any MIDI message.

@QwaizanG: I was thinking about getting BlamSofts "Distributor", then merging the single CV outputs again and using the single pitch bend outputs of each channel for each single device.. Kinda cumbersome but as long as I can do it all in Reason I'd be a happy camper..

Another way might be to roll my own Remote plugin but the requirement of having PCs activate specific instruments and deactivate any other instrument doesn't make this exactly easy.. I wouldn't really want to have to resort to using Apples "Main Stage" which makes what I want trivially easy :/

I do think Mainstage would make your life a lot easier for this, and with the new autosampler feature, you could sample what ever Reason synth presets you want to use, provided you don't need modulations and such... but I understand Reason is a bit more stable/ less cpu taxing.

Have you thought about just using the Advanced midi section? You said you were sending program changes from eleven rack, is it possible to switch midi channels as well? If so I think that would be the easiest way to accomplish this. Different synths on different channels, and maybe a channel with no synth assigned for when you just want guitar.

[normen]

I do think Mainstage would make your life a lot easier for this, and with the new autosampler feature, you could sample what ever Reason synth presets you want to use, provided you don't need modulations and such... but I understand Reason is a bit more stable/ less cpu taxing.

Have you thought about just using the Advanced midi section? You said you were sending program changes from eleven rack, is it possible to switch midi channels as well? If so I think that would be the easiest way to accomplish this. Different synths on different channels, and maybe a channel with no synth assigned for when you just want guitar.

Doesn't look like MIDI Guitar can switch channels based on PCs, no :/ I suppose I could do that with MidiPipe though.. The pedal board is connected to the Eleven Rack MIDI input which internally switches its presets, then the MIDI input is also available on the MacBook where the Eleven is connected via USB. The MIDI notes from the guitar come from the app thats running on the MacBook which uses the direct (clean) audio input from the Eleven.

Yeah, I basically want to keep the options I have in Reason for modulation etc., maybe even use a Mic to do some vocoder FX etc.

[Raveshaper]

What part of the setup is giving you trouble? Being able to define the filtration of PCs? Maybe a walkthrough of the signal flow would help me understand better. Are you muting and unmuting synths inside Reason? Sorry for being dense.

Edit:
Ok, I think I understand now. You want each synthesizer or sound source in reason to only be enabled by one PC message, such that every sound is turned off except for the one you have enabled. Your difficulties seem to stem from setting up PC messages inside Reason.

This will require some Remote script. If you provide PC messages and an abstract of the desired behavior, I believe I can draft something that will do what you need.

Edit 2: how many CCs are you using? Could you use multi channel midi to expand?

[jfrichards]

Hey Normen, I can't help with your specific setup issues, but I have been doing what you describe inside Reason using the Fishman TriplePlay.  I have two footpedals available.  The expression pedal of my MPK88 and a midi rocker pedal made from a volume pedal going through a MidiExpression converter.  I can change synth patches (Select Next Patch) with the expression pedal, patches which I have made and loaded into a folder in the order I need them.  The Midi rocker pedal is mapped to a knob in a combinator where I dragged a device with a volume knob from both the guitar chain and the synth chain.  The combinator knob turns the volume all the way up for one simultaneously turning down the volume for the other.  I even made a folder with several different synth combinators and the expression pedal changes from one to the other, although the change takes from a 32nd note to an eighth note, depending on the type of synth.  On the guitar side, I'm loving all the choices these days, including the nice set of patches you made for the Softube.

I'm interested in buying an FCB1010 and having lots more foot control for Reason.

[normen]

Thanks for the input guys!

As for CCs, I basically used up all the CC "slots" of the FCB1010 for guitar FX switching already. I can send any CC (including any channel) with a button though, as for the MIDI notes, they always arrive with channel 1. A remote plugin would probably have to use both MIDI inputs at the same time, the one from the Eleven where the PCs come in and the virtual MIDI input where the notes from "MIDI Guitar" come in. But even if the remote plugin would transform the channel of the notes based on the last PC, I don't think I can select an actual Remote MIDI input in the advanced MIDI panel, can I?

@jfrichards: If you get the FCB make sure you also get the UNO firmware (a small ROM chip you can get on ebay), the stock FCB has some silly and serious limitations.

[Raveshaper]

You can handle MIDI with greater flexibility using Remote, but you are correct in saying that you can't select a remote input in the advanced midi panel. Remote scripts use the I/O of your physical hardware, which you need to select yourself. In your case, you would need to select the FCB1010 Input when setting up the surface defined by the remote script.

When I say "handle MIDI with greater flexibility" I mean it is possible to detect incoming midi messages, determine whether they are specific and/or desired values, then interpret those results to send out completely different messages. So, CC to PC, channel x to channel y, routable destinations, toggled output, etc.

Unfortunately, even though I am not a registered dev, if you are interested in developing a custom solution for your setup we would have to take the conversation to email or private message. Because, uh... using MIDI is dangerous? I have no idea really. But that's the case.

[normen]

You can handle MIDI with greater flexibility using Remote, but you are correct in saying that you can't select a remote input in the advanced midi panel. Remote scripts use the I/O of your physical hardware, which you need to select yourself. In your case, you would need to select the FCB1010 Input when setting up the surface defined by the remote script. When I say "handle MIDI with greater flexibility" I mean it is possible to detect incoming midi messages, determine whether they are specific and/or desired values, then interpret those results to send out completely different messages. So, CC to PC, channel x to channel y, routable destinations, toggled output, etc. Unfortunately, even though I am not a registered dev, if you are interested in developing a custom solution for your setup we would have to take the conversation to email or private message. Because, uh... using MIDI is dangerous? I have no idea really. But that's the case.

Mhm, I did develop a Remote script for the Korg PadKontrol native mode (and actually am registered for Remote development), I still don't 100% see how exactly I could set this up though unless I missed an option to have one control surface plugin with multiple logical control surfaces that I can assign to single devices in Reason.. If you want to look into this together with me then sure, PM me - I'll be off to bed soon though.

[kloeckno]

You might be able to use the Zvork SL-1 to do the synth switching if they're all in a combinator. You can use 4 by using the CV inputs on the combi and assigning them to the "Recieve Notes" parameter in the combi programmer. The Zvork SL-1 can be used as a 4-way latching gate, and the outputs can be routed to the combi CV ins. Then it would just be a matter of assigning the PC or CC messages to the buttons on the SL-1.

[normen]

You might be able to use the Zvork SL-1 to do the synth switching if they're all in a combinator. You can use 4 by using the CV inputs on the combi and assigning them to the "Recieve Notes" parameter in the combi programmer. The Zvork SL-1 can be used as a 4-way latching gate, and the outputs can be routed to the combi CV ins. Then it would just be a matter of assigning the PC or CC messages to the buttons on the SL-1.

Yeah I thought about using it simply to pull down the volume of the single synths but then all synths would still be playing at the same time and idk if the MacBook Air can handle that. Using the receive notes parameter didn't even cross my mind.. This one really sounds like a solution! Thanks a bunch, I'll try that tomorrow!

Edit: Quickly checked it out in Reason and actually I could even have 8 different synths this way as I can use the rotary CV inputs and the programmer CV inputs at the same time. I think this is it! Thanks again!

Edit2: Arrrghh! The latest version of SL-1 doesn't allow assigning one MIDI command per button, theres only a global one to switch between them :bawl:  It sounded so good... The solution has to be something similar..

Edit3: Okay, solved that by using a Redrum and wiring the single gate outputs to the gate inputs of the SL-1.. Now I can assign the single play buttons of Redrum to the PC input which in turn switch the SL-1. Kinda silly but it works..

[kloeckno]

Nice, glad to help. I actually use a FCB 1010 with my keyboard setup, and one of my bands' guitarist uses one for almost the exact same thing you are. So that's how I knew it would work!

[Raveshaper]

Glad a solution was found. If you want to explore this using Remote let me know.

[yester]

I stumbled here but couldnt find a solution to my exact problem, so here it is in case it is useful to anyone :

I got a Boss FC-50 midi foot controller & I hoped to make it work for remote override in Reason (11) + Windows 10.
(Particularly with the MORDRED Re, to switch between effect chains)

Of course I quickly realized the device only sends Program Changes (PC) on range 0-128 and not CC or NOTE values as Reason expects.

==== What worked for me ====

I dowloaded & installed LoopMIDI to create a virtual MIDI IN port
(https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html)
I dowloaded & installed Midi OX to help me remap PC 0-128 to noteOn 0-128
(http://www.midiox.com/?http://www.midio ... oxdown.htm)

I used LoopMIDI to create a port I named "loop MIDI IN", and let it run in the background

I started Midi OX
Options > Midi Devices, select the physical MIDI IN on which the controller is plugged, and select "loop MIDI IN" as the output. I left the rest unselected.
Options > Data mapping opens a window called Translation map.
Check "Turn Map On(after OK)".
Press the Insert button and select input Event Type ProgChg, and Output Event Type NoteOn.
YOU MUST CHECK "Use input value 1 (Pull)" or else the program will only output NoteOff rather than NoteOn (and you need NoteOn if you want to use buttons to TOGGLE).
Leave the rest as it is.

In Reason I added a control surface as <Other> MIDI Control Keyboard, with MIDI input selected manually as "loop MIDI IN" (Do not use the "Find" option, it would only find the "real" port the hardware is plugged into, and we want to cheat here.

I can now override any toggle/button and the signal from foot controller is recognized as CC from 00 to 128

It works without conflict, because MIDI-OX looks at the "real" midi input, and Reason looks only at the "loop MIDI IN" input, so both can run at the same time.

Then you can use Jiggery Pokery's MORDRED or Pongasoft's A/B 12 Switch and pilot it by foot. (or just mute every channel of a mixer utility, and solo each one by foot)