Calling all SoundFlower routing with Reason experts!

[tyerac]

Hey guys,

So I am close to cracking the "Do it ALL in Reason" workflow where I will be able to use Reason 100% for everything without rewiring to another DAW. I can record VST instruments in Reason no problem using loopback on my interface, and currently trying to figure out how to send (Or solo) a track in reason, send the audio virtually to my VST host program (Hosting AU - Mac only) add a VST effect to it, and route the audio back into Reason to record.

 The problem i'm having is I can get the audio into my VST Host, and add the effect, and even record it back into Reason but I cannot hear the audio while its in the VST host to check what the effect is doing before printing. If I change my reason interface back to my focus rite I can hear the recorded audio fine but I can't hear the routed audio real-time with the effect while using sound flower 64ch before I record it.

I am using Sound Flower 64ch and I know a lot of you either love it or hate it, but wondering if anyone who has cracked it would be able to help me figure this out? I'm willing to pay too

I have setup an aggregate device pairing my interface (Saffire pro 40) with Sound flower 64ch but that doesn't seem to work properly either. I have tried using the track monitoring button but all I seem to get is feedback loop (Without hearing anything.... just visually seeing the level rise and hit red)

There is a USD $20 reward via paypal for anyone willing to help me figure this last part of the puzzle out. I've been working on this for over a year so I don't have to use another DAW and do everything within Reason (Too many reasons why I am doing this but mainly because i prefer reason workflow and hate having 2 different project files for one project). Willing to share my technique too if anyone is interested in trying to record/use VST's in Reason.

Thank you in advance!

KT

 

[QVprod]

The obvious issue with Soundflower is how unstable it can be, but if you think it's worth the headache vs bouncing audio or rewiring there's a pretty simple (well kind of) way of doing it....and it's ok I don't need the money.

Instead of an Aggregate device, I would recommend using Soundflower 64 as the audio device in Reason. You can then open Soundflowerbed in the Soundflower folder in Applications. It'll put a flower at the top of your menu bar. Click on that flower and you can choose an audio interface to monitor through for Soundflower. So essentially the audio device in Reason's preferences will be Soundflower 64 but with Soundflowerbed you'll be able to hear though your Saffire Pro 40.

With that setup, to use external fx and hear them in real time, the best way to do that imho, would be to route them as inserts. Instead of routing the direct out of an channel into the hardware outputs, you would instead run the inputs and outputs of the channels insert section. So 'To Device' routing to the hardware output of your choice and then 'From Device' being routed to the inputs you designate the fx to return to. Like so:

 

Once you do that you can now hear the fx in real time to do whatever tweaking you need, and you don't need to solo anything for it to work.

Now to print it, Click 'Rec Source' for that channel with the effect. Then create a new audio track and select that channel as the audio input. Then press record. You may also be able to just use 'Bounce mixer channels' as well to do an offline bounce. It's probably worth a try.

The major downside to going this route (aside from Soundflower related woes) however, is the latency involved from not only routing audio out and back into Reason, but also the latency of whatever plugin you're using. 

With that in mind I still recommend using a secondary DAW if for nothing else, the built-in latency compensation. But if you feel this process is more worthwhile, it should achieve what you're asking.

[tyerac]

THANK YOU SO MUCH QVprod!!!

 I see exactly what you mean about the horrible latency. Its about 1 second from the audio hitting the effect and back again. Its maybe workable for some things but not for most. I didn't realize it would be this bad and I now totally understand why you recommend having a 2nd DAW even if its just for latency compensation/Rewiring.

 Again, I very much appreciate the time you took to respond and provide detailed instructions on how to do it.

Regards

KT

[rcbuse]

 Its about 1 second from the audio hitting the effect and back again. Its maybe workable for some things but not for most. I didn't realize it would be this bad and I now totally understand why you recommend having a 2nd DAW even if its just for latency compensation/Rewiring.

Make sure you have your buffers set to the smallest value your system can handle without dropouts.  

Soundflower buffers:

 

Reason Buffers:

 


And whatever buffers you have in your VST Host's buffers.

It all adds up.

[tyerac]

Thanks for this.

I changed the settings to what you showed but there is still about half a second delay even with reason buffer size at 64 samples, and sound flower 64ch also set to 64.

 What have you been getting? Do you hear yours almost zero?

[tyerac]

also, I hear lots of artifacts, blips and stuff when routing into most effects. even with buffer size back to 512 on both reason and sound flower. 

 Do you know of a way to hit a sweet spot with no artifacts?

[rcbuse]

Thanks for this.

I changed the settings to what you showed but there is still about half a second delay even with reason buffer size at 64 samples, and sound flower 64ch also set to 64.

 What have you been getting? Do you hear yours almost zero?

I usually have all mine set to 64.  I'm using http://www.niallmoody.com/apps/pedalboard2 as a vst host, which is pretty nice.  With this setup the latency is so low I can't tell there is any, so its probably 5-20ms.  Half a second delay makes me think there is something strange going on with your VST host.

[rcbuse]

also, I hear lots of artifacts, blips and stuff when routing into most effects. even with buffer size back to 512 on both reason and sound flower. 

 Do you know of a way to hit a sweet spot with no artifacts?

All you can really do to find the sweet spot is start low and keep setting them higher until you don't get any artifacts.  

[QVprod]

Thanks for this.

I changed the settings to what you showed but there is still about half a second delay even with reason buffer size at 64 samples, and sound flower 64ch also set to 64.

 What have you been getting? Do you hear yours almost zero?

I usually have all mine set to 64.  I'm using 

http://www.niallmoody.com/apps/pedalboard2

 as a vst host, which is pretty nice.  With this setup the latency is so low I can't tell there is any, so its probably 5-20ms.  Half a second delay makes me think there is something strange going on with your VST host.

Yep this^. Latency should not be nearly that bad. Agreed that it's probably a host issue. In addition to rbuse's suggestion I would recommend AU Lab since it's created by Apple. http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Audio/AU-Lab.shtml. People use it along with Soundflower as a system equalizer so the latency definitely won't be as bad as what you've experienced.

Edit: also check the buffer size on HostingAU. You only mention adjusting the buffers for Reason and Soundflower. As rbuse mentioned, you'll need to do all 3.

[weforgot...]

Hey,

Put this video together super quick this morning to show you how set it up. Hopefully this works for you too Good Luck!

Scott