The End of reason device ? never reason device update ? ...

[EnochLight]

Which brings us back to the OP's musings, before it got buried in users justifying a range of juvenile apps. The primary focus is shifting away from Reason. 

I disagree.  The apps being discussed are no less juvenile than any other mobile music production app - their value is determined on whether or not musicians can find a use for them.  I totally understand that you may find them juvenile (as you clearly have no need for them), but that doesn't negate their value or usefulness by any stretch.

I also understand how you and others may feel that Propellerhead's primary focus is shifting away from Reason (due to their website redesign, Discover, etc), however; Reason still remains the first product in their list of products, clearly holds the most power as a full production suite, and (likely) retains the highest return on investment (between straight license/upgrade sales and RE profit sharing).  

If anything, their focus has shifted to broadening the products that Reason works with.  This, in turn, empowers Reason even more and makes it more valuable.  

I also see a regular reference to teenagers (not just by you, but by others).  I would argue that a person's age has nothing to do with this.  As a teenager, I spent money probably just as much on my craft as I do as an adult (although... perhaps more recklessly)...  That said, I was still a paying consumer at the age of 17 just as much as I am as an adult.  But yeah - I do feel that this demographic is a potential gold mine to be tapped, so we're likely in agreement on that bit afterall.
(..And although this is a topic of an entirely different sort of discussion, one could argue that most people are their most creative/experimental when they are in their teens and early 20's anyway.  But, I digress... )

[QVprod]

Thing is you said people are talking about it with high regard. I wouldn't assume you were talking about Propellerhead's marketing from that statement. To which I'd say, thats just what marketing is. Make your product sounds as amazing as possible, as long as you're not lying about it's feature set it's perfectly ok.

People ARE talking about the apps in high regard. Just as many people will do with every single Propellerhead product. Generating long term brand loyalty is the holy grail of marketing, and Props have succeeded in doing this. It's the same as the iPhone 6 - despite early reports that the chassis is prone to bending, Apple loyalists still rushed out to buy it. Just as McDonalds has a giant following, and markets their 'healthy options' it doesn't mean the food is of a high standard.

Not trying to turn this into an unnecessary personal argument, as I enjoy general discussion, but it's one thing to not like something and a whole other thing to insult people who use it. That's all I'm saying.

I have not insulted the people who use it. Well I should say that I have not intentionally done so. I stated that the gimmicks are geared towards teenagers. This is an examination (well, perhaps an opinion) of the marketing process. If I were to talk about enjoying Starburst candy, and you were to opine that Starburst primarily market the product to children, I would not consider that you are calling me a child for enjoying candy from time to time. If I were to take it that way, well, that's my problem for being so attached to my favourite candy

As far as the priority being taken away from Reason, I believe I've wrote my two required essays already 

As I have outlined, the entire website give the new visitor the impression that Propellerhead are an app developer. Since yesterday I have actually sent the link to two professional colleagues in the marketing biz who I consider to be branding gurus, with the specific stipulation to tell me how long they believe a new person would spend on the site, and what they would glean from the presentation. They both said that they thought it was some music app for iPhone, and neither of them concluded that it was a company that developed PC based studio software. These were two replies independent of each other, from guys who are highly paid consultants for web presences that move a lot of units, and are even mentors in their industry. They felt that 90 seconds to two minutes was the maximum interest for a new visitor, who would leave if they *weren't* looking for information on a phone app.

Ultimately, Propellerheads' focus IS on apps at the moment. I have no personal stake in this, because I didn't feel ripped off in any way by a lacklustre Reason 8... quite simply I don't see the value in upgrading from 7.1 so it's no money out of my pocket.

Just to be clear, I'm not taking personal offense here. 

As far as your colleagues opinions, I see your point, but as I said before, A person is unlikely to hear about Reason by just randomly going to the props site. If they're looking for it, it's because they've already heard of it. Even if the site to some seems to focus on mobile apps, those mobile apps point right back to Reason because of Discover. I still say though, a person who is genuinely interested in a company's products or even just plain curious will click on the Products page. Before they even get there, they'll watch the video on the homepage and see Reason being used on a computer in a studio (regardless of how "short" the segment is) and know theres more than just mobile apps being used. 

Besides isn't it normal for a company to have its newest release as the focus on the homepage? For the Props, That would be Discover.

[EnochLight]

Besides isn't it normal for a company to have its newest release as the focus on the homepage? For the Props, That would be Discover.

This x1000.  That said, I'll be curious to see what appears on their homepage when the next major version of Reason drops...

[Rook]

When Props first announced REs, one of the things that I was most excited about was that it would free them up to work more on the core of the program. Adding a lot of the really big missing features that have become standard in almost every other music production environment.

This appeared to be exactly what happened with Reason 7. They added midi out, audio quantize, chopping, rex file creation, etc... Most of the things I had been hoping for for a long time. But, since then it seems that they've really focused more and more on the absolute newbie crowd. Which is great, as long as they ALSO focus on the "veteran" users. Maybe even give experienced users of other DAWs a reason to check out Reason lol. But, they haven't really done that...at all.

Remember when they used to do things like Music Making Month? And technical interviews/articles from advanced users giving tips. Now we get a video from Lucky Date telling how "easy" it is to make sweet beatz. I've got a lot of respect for Lucky Date, but that video was just laughable.

[trimph1]

We seem to be stuck in EITHER A = Reason is being forgotten while apps become the thing
OR = nothing of the sort is really the case....

Maybe they are looking for a way to make Reason more attractive for collabs?

Is that even.....imaginable?
 
Oh...BTW I use both apps...and I am going to be 60 in September....teenager? Not bloody likely, lol!!! :s0230:   :s0225:

[Last Alternative]

Just got my first iPhone (6) (which I never gave enough credit for how badass of a little device it is---this thing really is the ultimate smartphone, although insanely priced but I practically got it for free) so I got Take, since it's free, for on-the-go quick recordings when something pops into my head. Don't need Figure because I used to have it and it seemed like a cheap toy but was kinda fun while it lasted. So on my old junk phone I just half-assedly sung mumbo jumbo lyrics as they came and hummed the melody and beat-boxed the beats LOL. So I appreciate Take now for that convenience.

Discovery is something I'm enjoying now. Not to use, but to see what others are doing with it and hereagain...... :t0152: ......something is seriously wrong with your denial if you cannot see Propellerhead cares more about these apps than Reason. It's pretty obvious with the joke of a full # "upgrade" 8 was, that for well over a year they have been spending most of their energy not working on their main product. I understand they're keeping up with the times and all and yay for them but they know damn well how most of us have taken this major shift, haven't really reassured us of much of anything and left us guessing and nervous about their dedication to Reason. Sure they hope to bait peeps with the apps but honestly their main target audience will eat up the free hip shit and then laugh and pass on the expensive Reason. Do you really think these newer "mellennials" are gonna drop that kinda cash on something they're just fucking around with? ..I mean we can all hope so; that way PH will get off their ass and get real with Reason again!

I used to be furious about all this but people were right that Reason as it is now is not doomed.. unless PH goes out of business.. but I won't apologize for my feelings on the matter when I'm expressing/venting myself about it because yes I still feel ripped off and I think we have every place to feel how we feel. We (a lot of us) keep saying we hope R9 delivers. I cannot tell you how bad I'm looking forward to PH making up for 8. OK I'm done now.

[chimp_spanner]

But I don't see how the apps are full featured enough to be their primary focus? If they burst onto the scene with a mobile edition of Reason or something like that, then maybe I'd agree. But these apps are marketed as song starters designed to work with the full version (or at least that's my understanding). Like I said in my earlier post, my initial impression of Figure was that it was a toy. After a lot of use I think it's a very useful toy haha. I've started a lot of grooves and ideas that, for whatever reason, I wouldn't have done at my main setup. So *shrugs* I guess that's good?

Of course it'd be nice if PH made some kind...any kind of announcement about the future of Reason. I do agree that 8 was an underwhelming release. 9 is gonna have to be something really special. 

[Last Alternative]

Can't you tell apps are their primary focus? They've spent over a year working mainly on that which took out a lot of time for developing a worthy upgrade and changed their website to be one giant ad for their apps which barely mentions Reason at all to unsuspecting visitors. One has to really dig into the website to even know what Reason is. It's a joke. A very not funny joke.

[Gaja]

Can't you tell apps are their primary focus? They've spent over a year working mainly on that which took out a lot of time for developing a worthy upgrade and changed their website to be one giant ad for their apps which barely mentions Reason at all to unsuspecting visitors. One has to really dig into the website to even know what Reason is. It's a joke. A very not funny joke.

Since 2011 I think they created three apps (Figure, Thor and Take, rebirth afaik was outsourced) Figure has been released with the announcement of rack extensions in march 2012 (IIRC) and discover, which is also related to Reason. Since 2011 they gave us one .5 and two full version Releases of Reason plus somethig like twelve REs plus the IDT and RE SDK 2.0 (I don't know the exact version number, but it has been updated since). I'd say they must have put considerably more ressources into the development of Reason related stuff than Apps in order to get this status. In three years three apps plus discover, three Reason upgrades, twelve REs and RE SDK and IDT. That's 3.5 : 16.5 if I count R6.5 and R8 as one upgrade, 17.5 if I don't. So I'd say from the investment side of things the focus is obviously on Reason and related products. Marketing wise of course they market their Apps, which, in turn, are promoting Reason.
Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how apps would be their number one priority, when at the same time they put much more money into developing on and for Reason.

[trimph1]

Can't you tell apps are their primary focus? They've spent over a year working mainly on that which took out a lot of time for developing a worthy upgrade and changed their website to be one giant ad for their apps which barely mentions Reason at all to unsuspecting visitors. One has to really dig into the website to even know what Reason is. It's a joke. A very not funny joke.

Since 2011 I think they created three apps (Figure, Thor and Take, rebirth afaik was outsourced) Figure has been released with the announcement of rack extensions in march 2012 (IIRC) and discover, which is also related to Reason. Since 2011 they gave us one .5 and two full version Releases of Reason plus somethig like twelve REs plus the IDT and RE SDK 2.0 (I don't know the exact version number, but it has been updated since). I'd say they must have put considerably more ressources into the development of Reason related stuff than Apps in order to get this status. In three years three apps plus discover, three Reason upgrades, twelve REs and RE SDK and IDT. That's 3.5 : 16.5 if I count R6.5 and R8 as one upgrade, 17.5 if I don't. So I'd say from the investment side of things the focus is obviously on Reason and related products. Marketing wise of course they market their Apps, which, in turn, are promoting Reason. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how apps would be their number one priority, when at the same time they put much more money into developing on and for Reason.

Maybe it is the "glass half full/ half empty" scenario. Some do get the feeling that PH is concentrating more on the apps than on Reason...remember the 8.1 update hate and all that mess...so, while I may be barking up the wrong tree, I really do sense that it is a pessimist/optimist thing going...

[CharlyCharlzz]

sound apps are sound ...
apps would be a toy's if they had bad callity but the fact that they are fun and bring easy good result's dont make them bad production tool's !
 
after all I guess I will be all on Props side for now , I think Reason is the greatest tool's I ever used and if RE's are all what we get now fine !
the day I want all for free I buy FL studio insted of Reason and sell my hardwares

PS : if peoples complain about price then may buy now this RE and refill bundles or stay silent for ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or until next sale .........

[EnochLight]

again......  :t0152:  ......something is seriously wrong with your denial if you cannot see Propellerhead cares more about these apps than Reason..

Can't you tell apps are their primary focus? They've spent over a year working mainly on that

Again, I would have to disagree.  In the past year alone, we've seen 3 Reason updates (4 if you count the 7.11 maintenance stuff).  In the past 3 years, we have seen:

• June 2012: Reason 6.5
• April 2013: Reason 7.0
• April 2014: Reason 7.1
• September 2014: Reason 8
• December 2014: Reason 8.1

It would appear that development of Reason has not slowed down at all - and in fact - seems to have sped up this past year!!!  And all the while, we have had various Propllerhead branded Rack Extensions appear, oh and - a few mobile apps - two of which integrate with Reason currently, and the Rack Extension SDK advance.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw yet another update to Reason sometime in the near future.  

None of the above is indicative of what you suggest (and their current homepage is merely promoting their latest product that was released, IMHO).  

But no one is asking you to apologize for your feelings on the matter.  For all I know, I could be totally wrong as well.  The above is just my opinion, anyway.  And you know what they say about opinions...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ

[muffins4all]

Propellerhead may have expected more 3rd party devs to do more of the heavy lifting in Reason (release more rack extensions), freeing themselves up to focus more on apps.

Maybe they didn't bother switching gears when they saw that wasn't happening.

I don't think many would be complaining about Propellerhead's focus on apps if we were neck-deep in rack extensions from bigger plug-in devs, like Native Instruments, Waves, Arturia, etc.

[ClassickHitz]

Last year alone, over 370 million mobile devices shipped.  Out of that 370 million, iOS was over 19% of the market in Q4, shipping over 74 million units.  There are a massive number of users out there that choose to access the web via mobile devices just out of convenience, if anything else.  

Propellerhead would be fools not to capitalize on this, and mobile integration has been asked for since the market exploded 6-7 years ago.  I'm surprised it's taken this long to have something like Discover (and integration with Take, Figure, and Reason) appear.  I still don't see this as a shift in focus away from their core product - Reason.  I see this is a shift in focus to broaden their portfolio into something that will benefit these users., bring new ones in, and add value to those existing customers that have mobile devices.  In fact...

I'm neither a teenager nor have an attention deficit, but I not only see the value in what is being offered, I can damn well use it.  I've carried a smartphone in my pocket for well over a decade, and have had an iPhone since release in 2007.  Once Propellerhead support Android (which inevitably will happen if they're serious about this), it's only going to allow more users be potential customers and add value.  I don't use Figure, but Take is essential as a mobile scratch pad.  

I can't slight the company for trying this.  Hell, I hope they're successful, as their success means their products survive and I continue to see Reason evolve.  Are they greedy?  No more than anyone else posting here is, IMHO.  We all (presumably) have or need jobs and/or would like to make as much money as we possibly can.  Anyone who says otherwise is not being truthful.

I've spoke on this from day one when Take was introduced. I was actually insulted that it didn't automatically integrate with R7, Figure either. What was the point?

Low and behold they finally include the ability to do this but you have to upgrade to a lackluster version (R8). 

I'll be glad when this whole Discover crap falls flat on it's face so they can get back to focusing on bringing the Reason DAW to the forefront. 

[trimph1]

It sounds like the apps are "The Dangerous Supplement" which will threaten to overtake PH's priorities to the point wherein Reason becomes secondary.

How about thinking other than either PH dumps the apps or leaves Reason behind....why the false dichotomy? :s0106: