The End of reason device ? never reason device update ? ...

[DiZo]

 Before all thing, im sorry for my english, i speak only one or two word, and google translator is not forever a really help

but i seek your view on the question

 its sad, the last reason device update is the octorex...and kong for New device

but for me is not the priority

im total RE addict, but i want not all new propellerhead rack in RE

i think propellerhead a not the same business model, before the good thing, is the important old user priority of propellerhead, now, all is for new user (bundle, pack and co)

my 2 cents

[Last Alternative]

Your English translation is hard to understand but I will say it does seem like they've shifted focus permanently to apps. I hope not though. We'll see.

[jfrichards]

...its sad, the last reason device update is the octorex...and kong for New device...i think propellerhead a not the same business model, before the good thing, is the important old user priority of propellerhead, now, all is for new user...

I understand your concern.  Reason changed to the standard DAW plus plugins model with the introduction of Rack Extensions.  They have separated the development of devices from the development of DAW improvement.  This has resulted in a huge increase in available devices, but with much higher user cost.  The idea of getting everything done inside an affordable Reason is gone forever, although you can still do almost everything in stock R8 if you're willing to learn sound engineering, cabling, modularity, CV and automation, which takes years.  DAW development has slowed down due to the shift to mobile devices and platforms, but this is an industry-wide trend.  And they are slowly introducing improvements with each version.

I'm not sad, but my bank account is.

[stratatonic]

I always looked forward to a new upgrade.
Loved Kong and Dr. Octo (and Neptune) for R5,
The Echo, Pulverizer and Aliigator for R6'
And then?
Well, the new business model of buying your devices - while still paying for "upgrades".
There's probably more money for Propellerhead to do it that way, so everyone has to decide how much they are willing to spend (and when) to stay within the Reason ecosystem.
So far, the Audiomatic has been offered for free, as well as two Softube amps (but the Amps are a wash because Line 6 will be cut out of the program soon).
So yeah, not too many native devices these days....

[Gaja]

I don't think they shifted permanently to apps. I think they have groups of developers, some on REs, some on Apps, some on core Reason. Yes the changes are slow and expensive if you don't make money using Reason, but for my part really enjoyable.
Whether or not they're going to upgrade any of the stock devices again I don't know, but I do think it's possible they try to get the SDK to host the core Reason devices as well.
I believe their vision might contain a Reason for Tablet kind of thing, and/or REs as apps for iPad (in an automated fashion - once you RE is available in the shop it will become available for iPad as well wihout any work for the dev).

[normen]

I do think theres reason to believe that new devices from PH will be RE's in the future. So NO more new native devices (except for specialties like the MIDI OUT one). However, I also think that there will continue to be offers where you get at least some of the new devices for free with an update of Reason..

[Namahs Amrak]

Version 6 was the last we will see of a good value upgrade. All 7 included was a silly gimmick RE, and 8 contained no new native device additions of value to the user. You're right, it certainly seems to be a new business model. The golden days are over.

The clever thing to do would be to offer an RE of the user's choice when upgrading. However this probably doesn't fit into Ernst's greedy plans.

[selig]

Version 6 was the last we will see of a good value upgrade. All 7 included was a silly gimmick RE, and 8 contained no new native device additions of value to the user. You're right, it certainly seems to be a new business model. The golden days are over.

The clever thing to do would be to offer an RE of the user's choice when upgrading. However this probably doesn't fit into Ernst's greedy plans.

I hope not, we are all relying on Ernst's greedy plans to keep the company afloat. Otherwise they'd have been long gone and we wouldn't even be having this lovely conversation! 

[EnochLight]

/begin rant
As already pointed out, they haven't shifted focus (neither permanently or temporarily) to (mobile) apps at all.  Reason (and RE's) currently are and will remain their core product and it will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.  It has to be, if they want to sell RE's.  And for the mobile apps to have any real value, Reason will have to integrate.  

That said, they haven't stopped making devices at all - they're just added by way of RE.  I actually prefer it that way, as we get a constant flow of updates (new devices) without having to upgrade the entire core program - unless some new features are introduced that require it.  Yeah, it's more expensive now, but you can also pass on devices that you don't see any value in instead of being forced to have it in your rack.  There are plenty of synth-heads that didn't give a rat's ass about the Line6 amps back when they came out, and there are plenty of guitar-heads that don't give a rat's ass about the synths or samplers in Reason still to this day.

With RE, being able to pick and choose what you want is the new thing.  

For the record, since this opinion seems to appear occasionally here, please note that Propellerhead hired separate devs for their mobile apps (at least that's what the job posting appeared like when they started their mobile apps years ago).  I'm sure the mobile devs and the core Reason devs cross-pollinate these days, but that's about all.  
/end rant

[Bonkhead]

Reason 7 is the best version to date, imho.

[Namahs Amrak]

I hope not, we are all relying on Ernst's greedy plans to keep the company afloat. Otherwise they'd have been long gone and we wouldn't even be having this lovely conversation! 

Really ? I don't see how Prop's actions of late are very clever. They remove a decade of user resources, their customer service and technical support is often very poor, and they are gaining a reputation for no longer being a great value upgrade (ie no more native devices). The diversification into digital toys seems to be where the money is, and that's obviously what they're chasing these days.

Fortunately, Reason 7 is an excellent DAW, so I have no desire to upgrade to a newer release that does not (in my opinion) hold $129 of value over my current version.

Although I am waiting for the day that SDK1 & 2 RE's will no longer be supported, and no longer hosted for download. Nothing would really surprise me from those shonky Swedes at Props HQ.

[normen]

Really ? I don't see how Prop's actions of late are very clever. They remove a decade of user resources, their customer service and technical support is often very poor, and they are gaining a reputation for no longer being a great value upgrade (ie no more native devices). The diversification into digital toys seems to be where the money is, and that's obviously what they're chasing these days.

Fortunately, Reason 7 is an excellent DAW, so I have no desire to upgrade to a newer release that does not (in my opinion) hold $129 of value over my current version.

Although I am waiting for the day that SDK1 & 2 RE's will no longer be supported, and no longer hosted for download. Nothing would really surprise me from those shonky Swedes at Props HQ.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

[QVprod]

The diversification into digital toys seems to be where the money is, and that's obviously what they're chasing these days.

Not really sure where this mindset comes from. There's only two mobile apps that are compatible with the new Discover service; one is free and the other is only $1 usd. With that in mind it's really hard to say Propellerhead's main focus is mobile apps. Also consider that Discover also works with Reason. If anything the mobile apps are just advertisement for people to buy Reason. Plenty of other Daw companies have done this as well; Presonus, Steinberg, Imageline....

I do agree though v8 doesn't have much going for it for a current R7 user. I would say though that if they had launched Reason 8 and Discover at the same time there might have been considerably less backlash.

[Namahs Amrak]

it's really hard to say Propellerhead's main focus is mobile apps.

Perhaps you haven't visited their website of late. It has been revamped with a templatr optimised for mobile. The first image you see is a girl on a mobile phone. The last promotional video showed three people collaborating, two of which were on mobile phones. The yellow line drawing, pointless as it is, shows a phone. The blue scrolling part contains three different messages, all do do with mobile apps. There are four mobile apps they offer (figure, take, thor, recycle). Nowhere on the front page does the visitor get the impression that Propellerhead even make a DAW.

Not so difficult to conclude that their interest lies in apps these days when all of the website focus is on the formart, and at a time when a new version release contains no devices of any value to existing users.

[QVprod]

it's really hard to say Propellerhead's main focus is mobile apps.

Perhaps you haven't visited their website of late. It has been revamped with a templatr optimised for mobile. The first image you see is a girl on a mobile phone. The last promotional video showed three people collaborating, two of which were on mobile phones. The yellow line drawing, pointless as it is, shows a phone. The blue scrolling part contains three different messages, all do do with mobile apps. There are four mobile apps they offer (figure, take, thor, recycle). Nowhere on the front page does the visitor get the impression that Propellerhead even make a DAW. Not so difficult to conclude that their interest lies in apps these days when all of the website focus is on the formart, and at a time when a new version release contains no devices of any value to existing users.

Actually right now the first image is a video of a guy on a phone. The home page is all about promoting discover which states "Powered by Take, Figure, and Reason" 

The whole point of those particular mobile apps (as far as Discover is concerned) is that they integrate with Reason. A very smart marketing move imho.

Sidenote: I am aware Props have 4 mobile apps, but only 2 of them work with discover which is what they market the most these days. 

Edit: It's also worth noting Reason is the first thing listed under the 'Products' tab

[Namahs Amrak]

Actually right now the first image is a video of a guy on a phone.

Perhaps I am being served differently, because I checked on another connection and the first image I see is a girl with a phone.

I click on that image to launch the video window, and it's now a guy with a phone.

If I click on the 'Take' word, I'm directed to a phone app

If I click on the 'Figure' word, I'm taken to a phone app.

I scroll a little bit further, and I see some artwork that indicates a phone as being the primary product for music making from Propellerhead


 



Do you realise that from a design interaction standpoint, if someone is looking for a DAW, they would have closed the browser by now, without actually clicking on the word 'Reason'. By all accounts, Propellerhead are offering phone apps, not a DAW. There is nothing to compel the potential new DAW customer, because they'll never get far enough through the distraction of the new gimmicks.

The next set of links point to the Discover service. Step outside yourself, and your own knowledge of Propellerhead, and imagine how this looks to a new visitor. If he/she had watched the video, they would quite rightly think that Discover was something to do with the phone apps being used.

And, if they watch the video, they would see no more than 10 seconds of screentime given to Reason, the flagship product. This isn't even 10 uninterrupted seconds, but small snippets thrown in amongst the drama. The video is quite focused on the phone apps, and Discover.

Many musicians will be asking... 'why'? What is so revolutionary about an mp3 hosting service, and when we spend dozens of hours on a song, why do we need to save five minutes by having a service to render an mp3 and post it online, under dubious copyright conditions? Dropbox, soundcloud, email, are all free, and HIGH QUALITY stems can be shared, as well as the original .rns files. Discover's inclusion into Reason 8 isn't a value-add, it's just an amateur gimmick to tie in with the app gimmicks. 

The whole point of those particular mobile apps (as far as Discover is concerned) is that they integrate with Reason. A very smart marketing move imho.

That is your opinion only. Don't be so hasty in your assumptions as to 'the whole point', unless you are a Propellerhead employee that actually knows something about their marketing strategy. We might think that the apps are primarily intended to hook people into the Propellerhead brand and move them to Reason... but how about considering the app market as a stand alone revenue stream. A mere 1% takeup of iPhone users onto the $1 app would nett $8million - more than Props have reported as earnings in each of the last five years. Apps are big business. Look at the 'Angry Birds' game, that sold 12 million units in the first  10 months of release.

Perhaps Figure & Take are not the 'gateway programs' that we have been assuming, but a change in direction for Propellerhead. Good for them, business is about making profit, and if they believe apps will do that for them, then bravo. It would also explain why the have not bothered with a value-added version release of their flagship product.

Edit: It's also worth noting Reason is the first thing listed under the 'Products' tab

Yes, and you will not that this is at the very bottom of the page, where the user has to first go through multiple images, videos and photographs of phones. Once again, why would someone seeking a DAW stick around long enough to get to the links at the bottom of the page? This is such a badly thought out web design and ticks just about every box in the 'what not to do' marketer's handbook... that is, if they wish to attract people to Reason. If, as I'm starting to believe, their primary focus has shifted, then it's quite better, but still far from an ideal design.

[QVprod]

Perhaps I am being served differently, because I checked on another connection and the first image I see is a girl with a phone.

Yeah we're obviously seeing different things here. First thing I see is this 

 
You don't need to scroll though all the images to see Reason listed under Products. It's at the top of the page as shown above.

What you left out out of the "Join the music making" image you posted  (or maybe you didn't see it?) was the text underneath 
   It does say mobile device or computer


As far as the video goes, it's clear to see in the video that the majority of the music was done in Reason. Reason gets plenty more than a 10 second cameo. In fact most of the first half of the video was centered around producing the song started in Figure in Reason with the guy playing piano and even recording himself singing the background vox in his studio (from about 0:34-1:12). Also keep note that the video is marketing for Discover as a whole; that being the integration between all 3 apps (as shown in the video) not for Reason directly.

I'm well aware of stems and how easy it is to dropbox stems from any program to anybody in the word regardless of what program they use, but collaboration is the new trend in DAWs right now. Makes sense Propellerhead put their own spin on it. Those of us who use stems aren't really the target of the marketing for Discover (in it's current beta state) as it serves no superior benefit to us outside of being able to open figure and Take songs in Reason... or rather that is until they allow for the use of stems from these apps (I recall either Ryan or Mattias saying it's on the to do list). People just getting started with music however, will find that very attractive. It's like how Garageband (even the mobile version) lets you finish your projects in Logic Pro. 

When I said the "the whole point of these apps" I was specifically referencing them as far as their involvement with the Discover service. You may see them as amateur "gimmicks" but people have different workflows in creating music. Personally I think the direct integration of the 3 apps is actually quite useful, and I'll probably use it when I eventually upgrade from Reason 7 to 9.

The other thing is I can't imagine a person randomly stumbling upon a the Props website while looking for a DAW. If they're looking for a DAW on the website it's probably because they've already heard of Reason. What I can see however, is a person using the one of the mobile apps with the Discover service and seeing "Open in Reason 8.1" as one of the options, or while reading the description of Figure seeing it described as "The sound of Reason on your phone!". Sounds like a perfect gateway to me.

[Namahs Amrak]

As far as the video goes, it's clear to see in the video that the majority of the music was done in Reason. Reason gets plenty more than a 10 second cameo.

If I were looking to buy a DAW, I want to see the GUI. There is no more than 10 seconds of screen time showing Reason. Most of it (the Reason related content) is watching a half-asleep guy playing piano. That doesn't represent anything for the viewer, nor represents anything about the DAW. Take another look, and count the seconds you actually see Reason.

Let's go back to what the OP is suggesting... that Reason is no longer the priority for Propellerhead. I can see how people might get this impression. The marketing isn't geared to promote their flagship product, and the last release was poor value (by comparison to other releases, and specific to upgrading)

[CharlyCharlzz]

 Before all thing, im sorry for my english, i speak only one or two word, and google translator is not forever a really help

but i seek your view on the question

 its sad, the last reason device update is the octorex...and kong for New device

but for me is not the priority

im total RE addict, but i want not all new propellerhead rack in RE

i think propellerhead a not the same business model, before the good thing, is the important old user priority of propellerhead, now, all is for new user (bundle, pack and co)

my 2 cents

it's strategie , they may do new RE's or modules when they invent something new for Reason or the SDK IDT or whatever but I think they strategie now is to have various devs doing RE's to have more choices in the shop then what Props could do alone .

[QVprod]

As far as the video goes, it's clear to see in the video that the majority of the music was done in Reason. Reason gets plenty more than a 10 second cameo.

If I were looking to buy a DAW, I want to see the GUI. There is no more than 10 seconds of screen time showing Reason. Most of it (the Reason related content) is watching a half-asleep guy playing piano. That doesn't represent anything for the viewer, nor represents anything about the DAW. Take another look, and count the seconds you

actually

see Reason. 

Again, that particular video is about marketing Discover, not Reason directly. Thought I still think it's pretty obvious that the guy is using Reason. If you want to see the GUI of the DAW, normal thing  to do (for me at least) is go to the Product page which is easy to see at the top of the page. For example; I bought Studio One, I didn't give up looking into the program because Presonus' homepage displays digital mixers and audio interfaces. You click on 'Products' and all the company's products are listed. Most company websites function the same way unless they only offer one product.

Let's go back to what the OP is suggesting... that Reason is no longer the priority for Propellerhead. I can see how people might get this impression. The marketing isn't geared to promote their flagship product, and the last release was poor value (by comparison to other releases, and specific to upgrading)

I still say it is. Reason 8 as an upgrade was lackluster yes, but to a new user; It's a phenomenal value. Being that most of Propellerhead's current marketing (the video, facebook, email...etc..) is related to Discover or Refills/REs, which are all related to Reason, I'd say Reason is still a clear priority. Conversely I would say that making an attractive upgrade for current R7 owners may have not been a priority, or may be they somehow though it was good enough. Some people feel those Softube amps and drag'n'drop are worth it Have you seen joke of an upgrade that is Pro Tools 12?

[gak]

And to that.......I'm a "new" user and 8.1 fit the bill perfectly for me. Plus, I was lucky enough to get 4 very nice RE's for free and of course the softube/audiomatic. I demoed extensively before buying and was very skeptical it would suit my needs. 

Yeah, @PT12 Drop the sucker bomb please. 

Who knows what we'll see next. Reasons user base has been vast in the past. 99.9% of this forum has been civil and productive. 

[Namahs Amrak]

I still say it is. Reason 8 as an upgrade was lackluster yes, but to a new user; It's a phenomenal value.

I agree with you. Quite a powerhouse, especially if a new user bought into it with the $400 worth of synths as a free bundle. Even the aspects that I consider fairly stupid (such as the removal of patch preview, the flattening of the sequencer graphics and the ugly transport) are irrelevant to the new user because he/she knows nothing different.

Gak, is Pro-Tools coming out with a v12 soon ? I'm looking at buying some hardware later this year that is bundled with PT (I have no choice in this - can't but it 'unbundled' in my country) so maybe I should wait until 12 is out.

[gak]

To the best of my knowledge, PT12 shipped TODAY. So, considering I haven't been able to find out ANYTHING about what's new (other than this subscription thing and some future promised stuff) I'm just saying, it's kinda epic weird. 

I mean, look....more power to ya if you think the sub based system will work. But I've looked pretty hard today to find ANYTHING that is currently being offered over 11 and have come up with buttkiss.

Please, if anyone has info the contrary.......correct me. 

[Kazz]

For those not in a position to know about the sources of web traffic, it's important to know that mobile browsing accounts for a pretty large and increasing portion of traffic to many sites now. A *lot* of companies who didn't have great mobile experiences before are changing their sites right now to meet the demands of mobile users.

Beyond that, people are spending billions of dollars on apps, and any software company with products or ideas that could work as apps and the resources to develop them would be stupid not to at least try to get into the market.

Propellerhead has had apps since they released ReBirth several years ago, and the only real difference now is that they've hired new people to work on those projects in-house rather than outsourcing the newer ones. As was already mentioned, this should not have negatively affected Reason development at all, and I don't think it has.

Yes, many of us were underwhelmed by Reason 8 at launch, but give them time and I think we'll start to see more good things coming.

[gak]

As an older guy, I don't understand the "app" thing. For one thing, unless you have a bunch of external stuff, how the hell do you use it? I remember when the app craze "took" and thinking "oh no, what will someone like me do?" and then things quieted down and hosts became more "up front" again. 

Don't know......but I still don't understand why an "app" would have any bearing on what us "host" users do.