What are your prefered SSL mixer FX?

[challism]

I'm curious what you guys are using for your 8 default fx in the SSL mixer.  I have a ton of sweet REs, so I think I should be changing my 8 fx up a bit.  I'm probably going to be swapping out one of my reverbs for the TSAR-1R and adding the Dynamite Compressor.

I am currently using:
(these are all default from song template "Empty + FX")
1. RV7000 - plate reverb,
2. RV7000 - room delay,
3. Echo - warm echo,
4. DDL-1 - delay 3/16,
(these I have added to the template)
5. Scream - tape
6. Audiomatic - tape

[Exowildebeest]

Just a few reverbs - a small room and a plate for the drum bus channels usually, and a large verb and a plate for the main bus channels.

Why do you use Audiomatic tape and Scream as sends? They'll respond nonlinearly (and Audiomatic's tape in parallel is likely to cause phasing) so the more you send into it, the more it'll turn to distorted mush... But maybe that's a conscious decision you made?

[challism]

I use them with the levels very low to add some tape saturation.  I haven't noticed any phasing, or distorted mush.  But, then again, my ears aren't the best.

[JoshuaPhilgarlic]

1. The Echo (MultiPanning Delays)
2. RV7000 (Init)
3. RV7000 (Init)
4. RP-Verb (Init)
5. TSAR-1R (Init)

I consider to add Softube Spring Reverb too, and of course AD 480 as soon as I got it .

[gak]

Now that I'm pretty damn comfy with reason, I'll be making some templates and have a feeling I'll change a couple of things out.

I'll keep the RV7000 settings (which are not my fav but seem to work for much of what you use them on) and the Echo setting. I'll likely ditch the other delay (I don't really like it) 

I'll add a Synapse verb and a Haas. I also can see someday having the new 480 verb on standby (but I'm not ready to demo that yet) Yes, I said Haas I think it's great.

[challism]

I read on the old PUF forum that some of the guys used Scream & Audiomatic (tape settings) as send fx.  So I tried it too.  And I liked it.  Better than having 20 instances of them throughout the rack.  Anyway, Exowildebeest said above that this will lead to phasing and basically just bad sounding mush.  I haven't noticed this on my tracks.  So I am curious who else thinks this is a bad idea to use these 2 REs as send devices in this way.  Are my ears THAT bad that I do not hear the phasing & mush.  I am concerned about my hearing, if this is true; I haven't noticed it at all.

[altron]

My SSL FX sends default template looks like this:

1. Titus BBD Delay (simple delay, almost always needed somewhere)
2. - 4. Free for custom effects, depending on project
5. Yamaha SPX90
6. Sony R7 Reverb
7. Lexicon PCM70
8. Lexicon PCM91

[zakalwe]

I read on the old PUF forum that some of the guys used Scream & Audiomatic (tape settings) as send fx.  So I tried it too.  And I liked it.  Better than having 20 instances of them throughout the rack.  Anyway, Exowildebeest said above that this will lead to phasing and basically just bad sounding mush.  I haven't noticed this on my tracks.  So I am curious who else thinks this is a bad idea to use these 2 REs as send devices in this way.  Are my ears THAT bad that I do not hear the phasing & mush.  I am concerned about my hearing, if this is true; I haven't noticed it at all.

it'll sound a bit like a comb filter effect.  more noticeable when used mostly wet on drums.

scream is a weird unit.  i've tried metering it with VMG-01 and the results are all over the place.  i have no idea what it does but whole sounds can vanish from beats when you parallel certain damage types.  there was a good thread on PUF about it.

[JiggeryPokery]

1. Chenille - Dimension D, still the only serious chorus option in Reason
2. Steerpike BBD Delay - 1/8 + 3/16
3. spare, but usually ends up as The Echo for a tape delay
4. Chenille backing vox chorus Combi
5. RV7000 Warm Plate
6. RV7000 VOX Nick Plate
7. RV7000 Chess Studio
8. TSAR-1R hall.


@Challism
For a single delay line you'd be far  better off using Titus (with BBD mode switched off, for non-filtered DDL/IDL operation) rather than DDL-1 on a send, since Titus includes the Dry pan. This means you can set the Send 100% wet and then set Titus as wet as you need. With the DDL-1 you can't pan the dry signal, so it's only usable if you want the dry in the centre. For example, if you need the dry panned (say, dry left, with the delay right), you can only pan the dry using the channel panner to the left, but since it's a balance control it will remove the delay on the right. Basically, DDL-1 really only works as a mono insert; for stereo (e.g. for dry and wet with opposite panning) it can only be used with a Line/ReMix unit attached. Titus is a tiny delay powerhouse and serious DDL-1 replacement. I find I use it for Haas delays too

[Grooq]

If you use Scream tape as send fx, try chaining two Screams in series (with more moderate individual settings) because of the phase issues.  I don't know if the same is true to Audiomatic.

[Gulale]

even though it is different from mix to mix, however plate reverb, Room, and Hall are some how a must. You know it is all about creating space right. The reason I've said different from mix to mix is, I sometimes use my own room as a Hall reverb. Cheers.

[challism]

Matt, Funny you mention swapping DDL for Titus.  I did that earlier today.  Titus is a sweet little delay, and I really haven't been usingit enough (since Steerpike is so amazing), so earlier today I swapped out DDL-1.  I think I'm going to copy a few of your send effects, looks like a good lineup.


Looks like Peff put together a few combis that cancel the phasing problem of Scream/Tape.
http://www.peff.com/journal/2009/04/22/ ... ombinator/

[selig]

Matt, Funny you mention swapping DDL for Titus.  I did that earlier today.  Titus is a sweet little delay, and I really haven't been usingit enough (since Steerpike is so amazing), so earlier today I swapped out DDL-1.  I think I'm going to copy a few of your send effects, looks like a good lineup.


Looks like Peff put together a few combis that cancel the phasing problem of Scream/Tape.
http://www.peff.com/journal/2009/04/22/ ... ombinator/

Should be noted this doesn't "cancel" the phase issue, because the phase of Tape is pretty much fine. The "issue" is primarily with Tape's polarity, which is why you can correct it (for the most part) with a polarity inversion. I should point out Phase and Polarity are two entirely different concepts, one dealing with time (phase) and the other space (polarity).

Here's the key. When you run an impulse through Tape, it comes out inverted (not delayed). When you measure for phase shift, you see a little shift (9° max) around 10 kHz, but everything below that has zero phase shift. This phase shift at the higher frequencies is why the polarity inversion trick doesn't work "perfectly" for all sources, BTW. 

Note that this is true for the Tube setting as well, but there is more phase shift with that algorithm, making the polarity inversion solution only partially work. There's around - 18° shift around the 1 kHz region, flat around 100 Hz, raising to around +25° at 20 Hz.

Tip: you can also polarity invert in the SSL channel when using Tape on a parallel channel, or using a Mix Channel as a return if using Tape as a send. 

[Exowildebeest]

Matt, Funny you mention swapping DDL for Titus.  I did that earlier today.  Titus is a sweet little delay, and I really haven't been usingit enough (since Steerpike is so amazing), so earlier today I swapped out DDL-1.  I think I'm going to copy a few of your send effects, looks like a good lineup.


Looks like Peff put together a few combis that cancel the phasing problem of Scream/Tape.
http://www.peff.com/journal/2009/04/22/ ... ombinator/

Should be noted this doesn't "cancel" the phase issue, because the phase of Tape is pretty much fine. The "issue" is primarily with Tape's polarity, which is why you can correct it (for the most part) with a polarity inversion. I should point out Phase and Polarity are two entirely different concepts, one dealing with time (phase) and the other space (polarity).

Here's the key. When you run an impulse through Tape, it comes out inverted (not delayed). When you measure for phase shift, you see a little shift (9° max) around 10 kHz, but everything below that has zero phase shift. This phase shift at the higher frequencies is why the polarity inversion trick doesn't work "perfectly" for all sources, BTW. 

Note that this is true for the Tube setting as well, but there is more phase shift with that algorithm, making the polarity inversion solution only partially work. There's around - 18° shift around the 1 kHz region, flat around 100 Hz, raising to around +25° at 20 Hz.

Tip: you can also polarity invert in the SSL channel when using Tape on a parallel channel, or using a Mix Channel as a return if using Tape as a send. 

This begs the question why Propellerheads haven't added a polarity invert function to Scream - wouldn't break backwards compatibility as far as I can see, no different to the updated EQ on the 14:2 mixer, and it would save people a lot of time adding SSL channels (or Selig Gains if that has a polarity inverter )

I read on the old PUF forum that some of the guys used Scream & Audiomatic (tape settings) as send fx.  So I tried it too.  And I liked it.  Better than having 20 instances of them throughout the rack.  Anyway, Exowildebeest said above that this will lead to phasing and basically just bad sounding mush.  I haven't noticed this on my tracks.  So I am curious who else thinks this is a bad idea to use these 2 REs as send devices in this way.  Are my ears THAT bad that I do not hear the phasing & mush.  I am concerned about my hearing, if this is true; I haven't noticed it at all.

As the phase issue is separate and explained above, I'll explain the mush: I mostly said that for illustrative purposes - there's a good chance you won't notice it at first. But if you have, say, 10 channels feeding into the same distortion unit... You'll get a totally different and probably much more distorted sound than when using separate distortion units (either as send or insert) on each track.

Not saying it will lead to disaster or a crappy sound or anything, it's just something to be aware of. If you're using a single distortion or nonlinear effect as a send on many tracks, chances are that you'll be feeding it only very slight subtle amounts per track - am I right?

[challism]

Thanks for the explanations Selig and Exowildebeest.  The knowledge base of this community amazes me.  You guys rock. 

am I right?

Yeah, that's about right.  For the send fx on Scream, I have been keeping the level turned down to just add a little tape saturation/flavor.  Looks like another job for Selig Gain!


------------------>  QUESTION:
Do you guys know if Audiomatic (tape) suffers the same phasing problems as Scream (tape) suffers?  Maybe I will just ditch Scream for the send and only use Audiomatic.  My ears aren't good enough to pick out the phasing, evidently.

[Benedict]

Geez I must be the odd one out as I only have one Reverb in my template as a Send and that is all I ever use. I guess I could make one shared Delay but I prefer to attach in-line per sound so I can adjust for every situation. 

[liampatrickingram]

Great idea for a topic, I always use the same thing to start - even though they are all stock settings they work perfectly for me and create some continuity between my tracks I find.

1. RV7000 - ALL Warm Plate
2. RV7000 - ALL Treetops
3. RV7000 - ALL Small Room
4. RV7000 - Film Score
5. Echo - Warm Echo
6. Echo - Short Round - this setting is awesome for making sounds that are warm and drifty
7. Chorus - Default
8. Unison - Default

[dvdrtldg]

8. Unison - Default

Surprised more people aren't including this in their sends - I change my template from time to time but the half-rack Unison device is always there, I love it.

Still experimenting with reverbs but I like Synapse for hall and RV7 for room & plate. Also got Echo for tape delay, the DDL, Scream on tape setting (in spite of all the issues mentioned above, when it works it just adds a nice warm grit on low settings which I love) and Chenille for chorus.

[liampatrickingram]

8. Unison - Default

Surprised more people aren't including this in their sends - I change my template from time to time but the half-rack Unison device is always there, I love it.

Still experimenting with reverbs but I like Synapse for hall and RV7 for room & plate. Also got Echo for tape delay, the DDL, Scream on tape setting (in spite of all the issues mentioned above, when it works it just adds a nice warm grit on low settings which I love) and Chenille for chorus.

This is something I only recently added and it will definitely be staying there permanently.  Adds a nice shimmer to electric guitars and is awesome for bass - gives it life and body without pushing the levels too high!

[gak]

Add "SA-16" chorus to my list. Not sure I understand why but it's just better in a send. Curious, in all the years of doing this, it never occurred to me to have a chorus on a send.

:s0106:

[Grooq]

8. Unison - Default

Surprised more people aren't including this in their sends - I change my template from time to time but the half-rack Unison device is always there, I love it.

.

I agree, the little, humble Unison is great on a send, fix place in my template.

[selig]

Geez I must be the odd one out as I only have one Reverb in my template as a Send and that is all I ever use. I guess I could make one shared Delay but I prefer to attach in-line per sound so I can adjust for every situation. 

No more odd then me having NO FX as a starting point. About the only "starting point" I go for even fairly regularly is room 4 in the Hall algorithm on the RV7000. Other than that, it's a blank slate from the start for every tune.

[submonsterz]

Geez I must be the odd one out as I only have one Reverb in my template as a Send and that is all I ever use. I guess I could make one shared Delay but I prefer to attach in-line per sound so I can adjust for every situation. 

No more odd then me having NO FX as a starting point. About the only "starting point" I go for even fairly regularly is room 4 in the Hall algorithm on the RV7000. Other than that, it's a blank slate from the start for every tune.

Total blank here too .
Ohh and also I don't use templates either just open and away I go .

[lowpryo]

I didn't use templates for the longest time, but I found that while brainstorming, my projects just got so messy and it lead to me being unmotivated to dig through it or add to it. Now I use a template with labeled channels and coloring laid out, very basic mix busses and some designated side-chain busses, and it has some send FX in there. not because i'll be using those FX units or settings on every track, but they act as an easy placeholder to keep everything straight. it improved my workflow way more than R8 did!

[selig]

Geez I must be the odd one out as I only have one Reverb in my template as a Send and that is all I ever use. I guess I could make one shared Delay but I prefer to attach in-line per sound so I can adjust for every situation. 

No more odd then me having NO FX as a starting point. About the only "starting point" I go for even fairly regularly is room 4 in the Hall algorithm on the RV7000. Other than that, it's a blank slate from the start for every tune.

Total blank here too .
Ohh and also I don't use templates either just open and away I go .

I'm not working TOO differently than you:
I have a very simple template that basically lowers the click volume, sets up the Rack to be displayed first, adds Ozone and Selig Gain after the Master Outs (Ozone remains bypassed), and I've recently added a bunch of color coded Blocks for song organization (so my verses are always the same color, choruses the same, etc) - saves me the trouble of naming the blocks each time, and I'm getting used to recognizing the color scheme at a glance too. I may even add some preset ReMarks at the top of each rack to encourage me to use them more for organizational purposes.