About modulation Matrixes.....

[Emian]

hey peeps !
 
Here's me, kinda writerblocking & experimenting with the RE-synths i own so far lately; attempting to create my own patches...
 
So i 'understand' different oscillators, i 'understand' how the 'FilterEnv' settings change the sound, & i 'get' the Amp Envelope ... but then i scratch my head....
 
i realise those are basic things, but there are a lot of synth-specific unique mod-matrix sources/destinations (Quad's Phase Distortions, Parsec's modifiers....) so i wonder are there some "guaranteed matches" for (different) synths made in the ModMatrix ?
Do YOU have a source-destination combo that rocks for you?
 
i often find myself having an "ok" basic sound, but it lacks something....
 
Any tip/guideline from more experienced synth-heads would be much appreciated, i KNOW there are multiple experienced synth-heads on this forum
 
i'd really like to create some sort of Source --->Destination sheet eventually....
 
Thx in advance !
 
Jan
 
(for the record; synth RE's with a mod-Matrix  i own : Antidote, Predator, Parsec, Quad & Thor, offcourse )

[selig]

Not sure what you're looking for, but any "legal" destination is available in the Mod Matrix, so simply looking at the list of destination will tell you what destinations are possible - there are many many possibilities here!

Remember that modulation is essentially an automated control - you can turn the filter cutoff knob up and down manually, or you can hook an LFO up to it and have it do essentially the same thing (more precisely, naturally). 

If you wonder what would happen when hooking source "A" to destination "B", there's one way to find out (as they say). 

Maybe I've misunderstood your question, and if so I apologize for speaking at such a basic level here. Maybe a specific example from you would be helpful here?

[Emian]

thx for jumping in, Selig !
well, i guess the overkill in Sources & Destinations is getting me confused & i get lost lost a bit... i hear what the filter Env does, or the Amp Env, but i kinda don't know what to assign the assignable Envelope(s) to for example ...

[selig]

thx for jumping in, Selig !
well, i guess the overkill in Sources & Destinations is getting me confused & i get lost lost a bit... i hear what the filter Env does, or the Amp Env, but i kinda don't know what to assign the assignable Envelope(s) to for example ...

The first consideration is what you intend to achieve. For me, I'm usually looking for some way to get the sound to move or seem more organic/alive. Any parameter that subtlety affects the sound is a good place to start. I often use an LFO for slow changes to things like subtle de-tuning, pulse width, chorus effect, or similar. I might use an envelope for the obvious amps and filters but also things like affecting de-tuning of multi-oscillators so the attack stage is more detuned and the sustain is less detuned - adds to the intensity of the attack IMO.

Some envelopes can loop, giving you a cross between an LFO and an ENV. I like to use these for things that are not steadily changing, like a filter that slightly opens every so often and remains un-changed otherwise (using a looping envelope with a delay stage, like Thor's Mod Env for example). 

Hopefully these ideas will get you started - wait, one more thing comes to mind. If the LFO or looping ENV is polyphonic (as most are), you get each note with it's own "cycle" which allows you to create some amazing evolving textures. If they are Global (like LFO 2 and the Global Envelope, or any external CV source), there isn't any difference between the notes you play - they are all affected exactly the same with no individual 'cycle' effect. 

[Emian]

allright, some great info in there Selig, thanks a lot ! time to experiment
 

[rcbuse]

I've never really approached this from the perspective of looking for good source / destination combinations.  What I do when playing with a patch is generally move the knobs on the patch as its playing, then if that movement is interesting when I do it manually with the mouse, then I think about automating what I'm doing with an LFO or envelope and use the mod matrix to do that.

[selig]

If you've had any exposure to modular synths, think of the mod matrix as the "patch cords". Hopefully that makes sense…

[selig]

I've never really approached this from the perspective of looking for good source / destination combinations.  What I do when playing with a patch is generally move the knobs on the patch as its playing, then if that movement is interesting when I do it manually with the mouse, then I think about automating what I'm doing with an LFO or envelope and use the mod matrix to do that.

Funny, I almost said essentially the same thing to demonstrate how to identify a source for modulation (you said it better than I was going to), but got sidetracked and went another direction - glad you posted, as this is a great way to describe the actual process of patch work.

[JiggeryPokery]

Well, since others are talking about what a Mod Matrix is, rather than what to put in them, there's really only three important "bread & butter" ones.

LFO > Pitch, for vibrato. Sine or preferably Triangle LFO at c.7 Hz, with about 15-25% destination amount. Pitch target could be pitchwheel, but generally target oscillator frequency. This is pretty much essential for analog patches, even it's a really subtle amount. This one is essential. Even a small Amount of vibrato, say 10% in Thor, can lift a dry analog style patch into something more interesting.

LFO > Volume is the second most essential, for tremolo. Triangle or preferably Sine at 7 Hz or probably a little more, up to 10-12 Hz, aimed at the master volume, or any intermediate gain or mixer control (so in Thor the Mixer, Amp Gain, or even the filter Drives.

Then thirdly, LFO > Filter Frequency for Wow.


Understand how to apply those, then it becomes easier to experiment. For example, now you can route MIDI Velocity to that LFO Depth, so that louder notes make the effect on the destination more pronounced.

Then you're really diving into the rabbit hole.

[Emian]

thx JP for a very useful answer ! i allready knew about LFO --> filter for wobble FX, i'll try the rest tough ! rabit hole, here i come !

[Benedict]

Hi

Here's one to try:

Take a Thor and insert one Sine Osc in OSC 1 and another two Octaves up in OSC 3. Assign the OSCs to Filter 1.

Bypass the Filter and set Mix Level for OSC 3 to 0.

You have a simple Sine sound. Not much fun.

Set a short Decay and no Sustain on Filt Env.

Use Mod Matrix to assign Filter Env to OSC 3 Level (100) and Scale with Rotary 1

Play notes and raise Rotary 1. Notice how your sound suddenly gets more "ting" on the attack.

You just learned a new trick.

[Pepin]

One common use is to route velocity to various parameters to make a more expressive patch (though some synths will have dedicated controls for certain routings).

Some examples:
Velocity -> volume
Velocity (negative) -> amp envelope attack
Velocity -> filter envelope amount
Velocity (negative) -> filter envelope attack

[Emian]

thx for al tips so far !
a sheet is bein' written

[stratatonic]

What I do when playing with a patch is generally move the knobs on the patch as its playing, then if that movement is interesting when I do it manually with the mouse, then I think about automating what I'm doing with an LFO or envelope and use the mod matrix to do that.

That is great advice! Thanks for sharing this.

And thanks to all who offered specific examples of what they do with the matrix. I am in the same boat as Emian and just haphazardly randomly used the mod matrix - with mixed results. Long live the forums and any question posted.

[frog974new]

the way i understand the Mod Matrix on stock device or Re device is to give more flexibility to tweak our sound as we want .
we can add basic modulation like as "vibrato" ( lfo-> pitch ) or Tremelo ( modulate the velocity /amp gain ) and also build more complexity internal routing to add more moove , shape to the sounds .

a quick exemple here -> http://www.reasontalk.com/post/thor-and ... 1286435768

how often i use those mods matrix
common synth follow this build -> "Osc" Go to "Filter" Go to "ADSR Env Gain " 
i add on the Mods Matrix all paramters to tweak the stage sound
e.g. use a free Env or a lfo routed on a filter to add more moove
e.g. use a free Env or a lfo routed on a ADSR Env Gain to add more moove
...
...
just see where you want to morph the sounds , its the same scheme when we use the CV input / output from device to trigg/modulate devices each eithers