Reason upgrade dealbreaker

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
GRIFTY
Posts: 658
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

No need to apologize friend. Yeah, it blows that I'm missing out on R8 because the value is not there for me. So I'm boohooing on a reason forum. No big deal though. I happily use seven every day and am really excited to see what nine has in store!

User avatar
phasys
Posts: 199
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest.
Like how you ignored my comment. :D
I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it?
I didn't. You did.

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest. I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it? Is it cathartic? Does it improve your quality of life? Does it help in making a transition to something? Sorry guys, but this whole conversation is starting to resemble group therapy.
I, for one, posted my list of quotes with zero commentary or argument for or against your or anyone else's position, merely pointing you to the exact evidence you asked for.

You request evidence that reviewers suggested Reason 8 was over-priced for existing users based solely on not having read any reviews yourself, because if you had, you wouldn't have made an assumption that no reviewer said R8 was overpriced for upgraders. In fact most, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x

Nothing was taken out of context. All of the reviews still rate Reason highly for new users, and for users of early versions. But you were not talking about new users, you were talking about upgraders. Are you trying to claim that since the entire review wasn't two solid pages of "R8 is over-priced" makes a single small comment to that effect in the conclusion irrelevant?

Yet when others point you to that exact evidence you ask for, rather than admit your mistake you dismiss them out of hand and start talking about lack of context, which means it wasn't a mistake on your part, you were deliberating baiting people, which by any standards is trolling. You likely had read the reviews and were fully aware of comments they made about the value of R8 to R7 owners.

A simple "ok, sorry, I was wrong on that point: reviewers did say Reason 8 was over-priced for at least existing R7 users". Not the holier-than-thou "you're still all wrong and I'm going to continue arguing that I'm better than everyone because I don't keeping banging on about this subject but constantly moaning about other people banging on about it is absolutely fine".

We don't mind argument and debate, and difference of opinion, but you are deliberately applying bait and switch tactics - make a point and demand evidence, be given evidence, then ignoring it. Not good, kev, not good at all.

KEVMOVE02
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

Phasys, you didn't say enough to warrant a comment- "they broke Reason" - what was I supposed to say?

JiggeryPockery, I thought about responding to you, but I'm not sure where to start. You seem to be offended by my comments or you think you're coming to someone else's defense. My bigger concern is that if you don't like my comments, you will exercise your admin privileges and delete any comment you don't like, lock the thread. or ban me from this site. That being said, I question your alleged objectivity, because quoting a single line from a written article  is the very definition of "out of context".  Furthermore, you admonish me to admit mistakes on a forum that is built upon the foundation of opinion. You can disagree with someone's opinion, but you can't ever tell anyone that their opinion is wrong or incorrect.

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:  quoting a single line from a written article  is the very definition of "out of context".  Furthermore, you admonish me to admit mistakes on a forum that is built upon the foundation of opinion. You can disagree with someone's opinion, but you can't ever tell anyone that their opinion is wrong or incorrect.
I, for one, posted my list of quotes with zero commentary or argument for or against your or anyone else's position, merely pointing you to the exact evidence you asked for.

You request evidence that reviewers suggested Reason 8 was over-priced for existing users based solely on not having read any reviews yourself, because if you had, you wouldn't have made an assumption that no reviewer said R8 was overpriced for upgraders. In fact most, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x

Nothing was taken out of context. All of the reviews still rate Reason highly for new users, and for users of early versions. But you were not talking about new users, you were talking about upgraders. Are you trying to claim that since the entire review wasn't two solid pages of "R8 is over-priced" makes a single small comment to that effect in the conclusion irrelevant?






User avatar
Theo.M
Posts: 1035
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

wellman wrote:After finding out that you can grab the upgrade in amazon for $99 This question came to my mind:

Will the Softube amps still be free with the upgrade to Reason 9?

Because if that's not the case, then doing the upgrade with amazon now it's the best idea, since each amp cost $69 at the RE shop.

But I think that since the Props are kicking out a couple of devices that they put in the rack, meaning that the user didn't have any choice about getting them or not,  the next upgrade should still contain the Softube amps.
yes the softube amps are standard inclusions now, i believe even in essentials. Reason 9 + 10 + 11 and so on and so on will include them.

User avatar
Theo.M
Posts: 1035
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

jfrichards wrote:I am truly disgusted by the incessant complaints about the R8 upgrade.  I'm not telling you to shut up, just that I'm sick of it.  Most of the complainers have spent so much time complaining that they could have done a few odd jobs around the neighborhood, saved a little money, bought the upgrade, hired a singer, composed some songs and put out some decent music.  What did we get instead?

And on top of that, R7 without the upgrade is one of the most amazing pieces of software ever written.  I guarantee that you complainers will not get to 2% of your goals with that attitude.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy in the slightest.  I use Logic and have a studio full of non-software instruments.  Got more complaints?  Please email Propellerhead and stop turning this wonderful forum into the old putrid side of the PUF.
This is "worse", as in, more offensive, than any post in this topic so far, and you are just as frequent a poster as most here... so perhaps take your own advice and spend less time here. I have been keeping my mouth shut but please stop telling people what to do when you don't follow that advice yourself. You will always somehow find a way to talk about the more important things that exist in the world and how we are wasting our time posting here, when it is a topic that doesn't suit you. 
In doing so you are contradicting yourself and are the one actually complaining.

I can point you to an endless supply of "much more important" and "productive" life tasks than posting in a web forum at all, ever. But i don't see the point, as that is NOT what we are here to do. We are here to discuss all aspects of Reason, and how long we want to stare at the screen all day doing so is up to the individual. Our time spent here should be without fear of being told by you how unproductive we are for doing so, which you do on a reasonably frequent basis.

My closing advice to you is to simply not partake in discussions about the R8 upgrade being "poor" (for example), as this particular topic (for example), is obviously of no interest to you and only serves to irritate you, which in turn causes you to spread behavioural advice to others.
So who is the one wasting their precious time here? You turned this topic confrontational for absolutely no reason at all. (IMO).

PS The OP's post has not even one mildly controversial line in it. It was absolutely fine and non aggressive.







User avatar
jfrichards
Posts: 1306
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

08 Mar 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:... most, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x
...
Matt, that is an exaggeration.  None of them said that.  I read them all, back then and just now.  I think you are substituting your view.  None of them said it was overpriced.  Read them carefully, they all say that if you're on R7, you might not want this particular upgrade, especially if all you do is record audio.  But they are all quite enthusiastic for the new R8 features, and most of the reviewers had hardly had a chance to try them out, writing for deadlines.  Obviously there are many people who like R7 so much that they do not find the R8 features useful.  But this is true for any commodity in the marketplace.

I'm still laughing at Ryan's sales video saying R8 is the best thing since Reason first came out, like when Ernst said Discover marks "the first incarnation of the world's open music sharing network".  Just as we forgive, correct (and make fun of) the exaggerations of marketing managers, we have to forgive, correct (and make fun of) each other's exaggerations also.

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1174
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:... most, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x
...
jfrichards wrote:
Matt, that is an exaggeration.  None of them said that.  I read them all, back then and just now.  I think you are substituting your view.  None of them said it was overpriced.  Read them carefully, they all say that if you're on R7, you might not want this particular upgrade, especially if all you do is record audio.  But they are all quite enthusiastic for the new R8 features, and most of the reviewers had hardly had a chance to try them out, writing for deadlines.  Obviously there are many people who like R7 so much that they do not find the R8 features useful.  But this is true for any commodity in the marketplace.

I'm still laughing at Ryan's sales video saying R8 is the best thing since Reason first came out, like when Ernst said Discover marks "the first incarnation of the world's open music sharing network".  Just as we forgive, correct (and make fun of) the exaggerations of marketing managers, we have to forgive, correct (and make fun of) each other's exaggerations also.
I did point out that as reviewed R8 scored highly, John. I fear you're confusing them reviewing the product as a whole, standalone full priced item for new users, while ignoring consistent comments about the value of R8 specifically regarding those who have the previous version. Their conclusion was it probably wasn't worth it. Sure, they didn't use the exact words "it's an over-priced upgrade" but the implication is clear: they say it lacks value to existing users, which is a different way of saying the same thing. That's different to it offering excellent value to non-owners, or owners of much earlier versions. Of course a R8 upgrade isn't over-priced if you're on R4!

If Reason 8 had been a free upgrade to R7 users, would the reviewers have still gone out of their way to suggest R7 users might not see value in upgrading? Of course not. They'd have all said it was a no-brainer. Yes, I know that's a simplistic argument, but it serves to emphasize that the reviewers generally felt that it wasn't worth R7 users upgrading. That's not to dismiss those R7 users who did upgrade or to suggest they were wrong for doing so. Ultimately we all find our own value for what something is worth and what we're prepared to pay. Not upgrading from R7 to R8 now doesn't mean not upgrading to R9.

You're right that some of the marketing was extreme and rather nonsensical.

User avatar
Nymphomation
Posts: 53
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote: Ultimately we all find our own value for what something is worth and what we're prepared to pay.
Yeah this is it. There's no doubt the upgrade seemed good value for some people, and not for others - this much is obvious. It's obvoiusly a hot topic and I didn't mean to kick a hornets nest by starting this thread.

Maybe it should have been more like a R9 feature hopes/request thread! Is there one? (yes, I have fingers, I will search!)


GRIFTY
Posts: 658
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

Some dudes need to freaking relax!

User avatar
Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest. I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it? Is it cathartic? Does it improve your quality of life? Does it help in making a transition to something? Sorry guys, but this whole conversation is starting to resemble group therapy.
JiggeryPokery wrote:
I, for one, posted my list of quotes with zero commentary or argument for or against your or anyone else's position, merely pointing you to the
JiggeryPokery wrote:exact evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you asked for
JiggeryPokery wrote:.

You request evidence that reviewers suggested Reason 8 was over-priced for existing users based solely on not having read any reviews yourself, because if you had, you wouldn't have made an assumption that no reviewer said R8 was overpriced for upgraders. In fact
JiggeryPokery wrote:most
JiggeryPokery wrote:, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x
JiggeryPokery wrote:Nothing
JiggeryPokery wrote: was taken out of context.
JiggeryPokery wrote:All
JiggeryPokery wrote: of the reviews still rate Reason highly for
JiggeryPokery wrote:new
JiggeryPokery wrote:
JiggeryPokery wrote:users, and for users of early versions. But you were not talking about new users, you were talking about upgraders. Are you trying to claim that since the entire review wasn't two solid pages of "R8 is over-priced" makes a single small comment to that effect in the conclusion irrelevant?

Yet when others
JiggeryPokery wrote:point
JiggeryPokery wrote: you to that exact
JiggeryPokery wrote:evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you ask for, rather than admit your mistake you dismiss them out of hand and start talking about lack of context, which means it wasn't a mistake on your part, you were deliberating baiting people, which by any standards is trolling. You likely had read the reviews and were fully aware of comments they made about the value of R8 to R7 owners.

A simple "ok, sorry, I was wrong on that point: reviewers did say Reason 8 was over-priced for at least existing R7 users". Not the holier-than-thou "you're still all wrong and I'm going to continue arguing that I'm better than everyone because I
JiggeryPokery wrote:don't
JiggeryPokery wrote: keeping banging on about this subject but constantly moaning about other people banging on about it is absolutely fine".

We don't mind argument and debate, and difference of opinion, but you are deliberately applying bait and switch tactics - make a point and demand evidence, be given evidence, then ignoring it. Not good, kev, not good at all.

I salute the mods on forum for being fair and not letting fanboys attack. You can clearly see who were the real aggressors on the old puf. I use to troll the puf because I hated how PH would let fanboy fanatics attack anyone who had a different view about Reason than them. Im not here much but I like to express my options without the bull_ish from the Reason religion followers.

Yonatan
Posts: 1556
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

While still keeping my ??? on how the ship is sailing (hoping Prop read and level up for the R9), I wish to also express some balance, that I do like the R8 version much better than R7, as I have had it as a Demo on one computer. It grows to be so much more saner because of the intelligent browser, it suddenly makes you want to try other sounds you never bothered using before, and it gives back life to the Refill-making market, which is great! 

So, yes we need to have different opinions and viewpoints, that´s one part of the forum. I hoped to see something different than Discover in the R8.1.
I admit it can surely be useful both as an inspiration and for other things, and I am glad to follow how it can evolve, but I think it took all the spotlight, but also I do understand that (and a new website/closing forum) might ahve been rushed in because of Namm etc. It´s all forgiven now. We have this wonderful forum and a new site that needs some adjustments, but when things settle a little and comes into a better alignment, I do think there will be things waiting around the corners ahead, that will make us all feel more excited, and light the fire of faith and community stronger than ever. We are quite some ppl who might be a little concerned and worried of the not too stable changes recently. So we had to express that in some way or another. But our hopes and love for the incredible Reason software, we all have in common. And I am sure we will see Rack Extensions blossom like the spring-time as it evolves, because as said before, it´s so nice how those tools integrates. Some developments needed for even more sophisticated libraries, but I am sure that will happen in due time. So I want to send some love and respect to all in this forum, and also to those working at or for Propellerheads. I believe in this creative music making ship that sails the deep pirate waters. Peace. 

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest. I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it? Is it cathartic? Does it improve your quality of life? Does it help in making a transition to something? Sorry guys, but this whole conversation is starting to resemble group therapy.
JiggeryPokery wrote:
I, for one, posted my list of quotes with zero commentary or argument for or against your or anyone else's position, merely pointing you to the
JiggeryPokery wrote:exact evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you asked for
JiggeryPokery wrote:.

You request evidence that reviewers suggested Reason 8 was over-priced for existing users based solely on not having read any reviews yourself, because if you had, you wouldn't have made an assumption that no reviewer said R8 was overpriced for upgraders. In fact
JiggeryPokery wrote:most
JiggeryPokery wrote:, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x
JiggeryPokery wrote:Nothing
JiggeryPokery wrote: was taken out of context.
JiggeryPokery wrote:All
JiggeryPokery wrote: of the reviews still rate Reason highly for
JiggeryPokery wrote:new
JiggeryPokery wrote:
JiggeryPokery wrote:users, and for users of early versions. But you were not talking about new users, you were talking about upgraders. Are you trying to claim that since the entire review wasn't two solid pages of "R8 is over-priced" makes a single small comment to that effect in the conclusion irrelevant?

Yet when others
JiggeryPokery wrote:point
JiggeryPokery wrote: you to that exact
JiggeryPokery wrote:evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you ask for, rather than admit your mistake you dismiss them out of hand and start talking about lack of context, which means it wasn't a mistake on your part, you were deliberating baiting people, which by any standards is trolling. You likely had read the reviews and were fully aware of comments they made about the value of R8 to R7 owners.

A simple "ok, sorry, I was wrong on that point: reviewers did say Reason 8 was over-priced for at least existing R7 users". Not the holier-than-thou "you're still all wrong and I'm going to continue arguing that I'm better than everyone because I
JiggeryPokery wrote:don't
JiggeryPokery wrote: keeping banging on about this subject but constantly moaning about other people banging on about it is absolutely fine".

We don't mind argument and debate, and difference of opinion, but you are deliberately applying bait and switch tactics - make a point and demand evidence, be given evidence, then ignoring it. Not good, kev, not good at all.
Mr44Hz wrote: I salute the mods on forum for being fair and not letting fanboys attack. You can clearly see who were the real aggressors on the old puf. I use to troll the puf because I hated how PH would let fanboy fanatics attack anyone who had a different view about Reason than them. Im not here much but I like to express my options without the bull_ish from the Reason religion followers.
Not sure I'm following you, but it's only personal attacks that are not permitted here. Anyone with a different view of Reason is welcome here as long as the personal attacks are left at the door. No one here is on the lookout for "fanboy attacks"!   ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote:Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest. I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it? Is it cathartic? Does it improve your quality of life? Does it help in making a transition to something? Sorry guys, but this whole conversation is starting to resemble group therapy.
JiggeryPokery wrote:
I, for one, posted my list of quotes with zero commentary or argument for or against your or anyone else's position, merely pointing you to the
JiggeryPokery wrote:exact evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you asked for
JiggeryPokery wrote:.

You request evidence that reviewers suggested Reason 8 was over-priced for existing users based solely on not having read any reviews yourself, because if you had, you wouldn't have made an assumption that no reviewer said R8 was overpriced for upgraders. In fact
JiggeryPokery wrote:most
JiggeryPokery wrote:, if not all, point out it's not a worthwhile if you're on R7.x
JiggeryPokery wrote:Nothing
JiggeryPokery wrote: was taken out of context.
JiggeryPokery wrote:All
JiggeryPokery wrote: of the reviews still rate Reason highly for
JiggeryPokery wrote:new
JiggeryPokery wrote:
JiggeryPokery wrote:users, and for users of early versions. But you were not talking about new users, you were talking about upgraders. Are you trying to claim that since the entire review wasn't two solid pages of "R8 is over-priced" makes a single small comment to that effect in the conclusion irrelevant?

Yet when others
JiggeryPokery wrote:point
JiggeryPokery wrote: you to that exact
JiggeryPokery wrote:evidence
JiggeryPokery wrote: you ask for, rather than admit your mistake you dismiss them out of hand and start talking about lack of context, which means it wasn't a mistake on your part, you were deliberating baiting people, which by any standards is trolling. You likely had read the reviews and were fully aware of comments they made about the value of R8 to R7 owners.

A simple "ok, sorry, I was wrong on that point: reviewers did say Reason 8 was over-priced for at least existing R7 users". Not the holier-than-thou "you're still all wrong and I'm going to continue arguing that I'm better than everyone because I
JiggeryPokery wrote:don't
JiggeryPokery wrote: keeping banging on about this subject but constantly moaning about other people banging on about it is absolutely fine".

We don't mind argument and debate, and difference of opinion, but you are deliberately applying bait and switch tactics - make a point and demand evidence, be given evidence, then ignoring it. Not good, kev, not good at all.
Mr44Hz wrote: I salute the mods on forum for being fair and not letting fanboys attack. You can clearly see who were the real aggressors on the old puf. I use to troll the puf because I hated how PH would let fanboy fanatics attack anyone who had a different view about Reason than them. Im not here much but I like to express my options without the bull_ish from the Reason religion followers.
selig wrote:
Not sure I'm following you, but it's only personal attacks that are not permitted here. Anyone with a different view of Reason is welcome here as long as the personal attacks are left at the door. No one here is on the lookout for "fanboy attacks"!   ;)
Well at least JP is we all know you are going to ride with PH no matter what. Tbh you really shouldn't be a mod because it causes a conflict of interest imo. You demand the last word in debates like the one we had about busses which I totally disagree with you on. I think you come from outdated recording technics and refuse to learn new ish. A lot of things you say I've found to be false but I just keep it to myself because of your faithful followers won't listen away. I'm gone.

User avatar
Social Exodus
Posts: 402
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Location: Pennsyltucky

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote: Propellerhead has been more than charitable to its existing customers! Do the math: since Reason was introduced (2001), Propellerhead has only charged $129 for each paid upgrade (Reason 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0,7.0, 8.0). Reason 6.0 was a "pay what you want upgrade". So if you purchased every upgrade since Reason 1.0, the cost of ownership was a measly $1174!!!! How many other DAWs can claim the same thing? But wait, it gets better: Propellerhead allows any existing user to upgrade to the most recent version for the same $129!!! So now the cost of ownership for a Reason 1 user who upgraded to Reason 8 is a mere $528!!!! Come on man! That is crazy! What other company (excluding Cockos) is giving their customer that kind of love?
 
Well here is my math:
Bought Reason 6.5 for $399 and got Reason 7 for free because it was within the grace period.  I have quite a few rack extensions that I can never use anywhere else but in Reason totaling well over $500 so that's $899+ invested in Reason.
By way of comparison, I also own Sonar Producer.  I started with SONAR Studio for $299, later upgraded to Producer for $99 and again to X3 Producer for $74.  I was part of a focus group that they asked my views on things which earned me a year's subscription and upgrade to SONAR Platinum gratis (free). So my SONAR investment, even if I leave out Platinum and keep it to X3 Producer is a total of $472 and I have a metric shit ton of excellent VSTs I can use anywhere including Reaper which I also own.
So yeah, there are other companies out there giving their user base some love and appreciation.  Sorry to shoot your argument in the arse dude.
 
:reason: 11 Suite/12 Perpetual License :re: Too many to count :refill: A few choice items

Nektar Panorama P4
Korg padKontrol

User avatar
trimph1
Posts: 85
Joined: 04 Feb 2015

08 Mar 2015

GRIFTY wrote:Some dudes need to freaking relax!
No kidding....sheeesh.
....and a whack of hardware synths and who knows what...

User avatar
jfrichards
Posts: 1306
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

08 Mar 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:...they didn't use the exact words "it's an over-priced upgrade" but the implication is clear: they say it lacks value to existing users, ...
They said it lacks value for a set of existing users, not for all existing users.  I don't know the exact percentages in reality, but on the PUF, it was about 50% sticking with R7, 40% going with R8, and 10% on the fence.  Judging by followup posts on ReasonTalk, it seems to be about 50/50 right now, with some more upgrading going on these days.  I was certainly on the fence for months (because I loved the Cancel Browse button and the Kuassa amps), then after creating some songs that made me very happy on R8, I upgraded.  These days, I'm solidly in the R8 flow (browser-open-drag-and-drop for devices, patches, and samples), and after Marco posted his sound designs for Softube Amp, it's well worth the price for me and my Strat.  I used to use the Cancel Browse button a lot, but now I don't need it, and I'm exploring patches more than before (I find that just seeing them there staring at me all the time is like an exhortation to try them out).  Kinda like a kid in a candy shop.  The only regret I have is that I can't just share my R8 file with my numerous online collaborators who are on R7.

User avatar
trimph1
Posts: 85
Joined: 04 Feb 2015

08 Mar 2015

I dunno.

I went from R7 to R8/8.1 and while I did find the upgrade not so great I do like the workflow a lot more. I tend to use both 7 and 8.1 quite a bit more....
....and a whack of hardware synths and who knows what...

User avatar
Lunesis
Moderator
Posts: 422
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

08 Mar 2015

Mr44Hz wrote:Well at least JP is we all know you are going to ride with PH no matter what. Tbh you really shouldn't be a mod because it causes a conflict of interest imo. You demand the last word in debates like the one we had about busses which I totally disagree with you on. I think you come from outdated recording technics and refuse to learn new ish. A lot of things you say I've found to be false but I just keep it to myself because of your faithful followers won't listen away. I'm gone.
I don't care if people disagree on Reason.. just try to do it hospitably. :)

User avatar
stratatonic
Posts: 1507
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: CANADA

08 Mar 2015

KEVMOVE02 wrote: To wit, present a single published article in an industry magazine stating that the Reason 8 upgrade for existing users is overpriced.
JiggeryPokery wrote:
http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... n-8-609573
JiggeryPokery wrote:
JiggeryPokery wrote:"Verdict
JiggeryPokery wrote: Reason is still a great first-time buy. Those upgrading may feel short-changed, though, so knock a couple of marks off the score if you've already got v7."


http://www.keyboardmag.com/daw-software ... ewed/49907
JiggeryPokery wrote:
JiggeryPokery wrote:"Conclusions
JiggeryPokery wrote: For current Reason users, is the $129 upgrade worth the money? If you’re strictly recording audio tracks, maybe not."

http://www.musictech.net/2014/09/propel ... exclusive/
JiggeryPokery wrote:
" Whether the upgrade from 7 to 8 is for you will depend on whether you like the idea of an integrated browser, new look and the new guitar modules"


Reason 8 has been marketed with typical Propellerhead self-assurance and a good deal of hype. But compared to what was offered in other whole-point releases (and even some incremental ones, like the ground-breaking 6.5) the new features are rather underwhelming, I think. Ignore the slogans, get down to brass tacks, and what we have is a rejiggered browser - which refines rather than redefines how we work, replacement guitar devices, and user interface tweaks. Shouldn't this have been a 'point' release, and provided for free to existing Reason 7 users?

Sound on Sound December 2014

Reason 8 is undeniably a great DAW, but that's largely because Reason 7 was so good...and indeed, 6 before it. Sure the new browser and drag and drop support are a productive step forward, but they're the sorts of things that should be expected of any DAW in 2014, rather than an excuse to charge existing users 129 Euros for the privilege.
All in all, then, Reason absolutely deserves it's legions of fans - and version 8 still offers plenty to entice newcomers - but it feels like loyal users are being asked to pay for what really amounts to a point update, not a full version. Surely, they deserve a little more for a lot less.

Computer Music December 2014

User avatar
zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

09 Mar 2015

i can't find the old propellerhead timeline but just wanted to say that the upgrade cycle seems to have gotten shorter but the price hasn't gotten lower.  major updates used to come out every 2-3 years before version 6 iirc.  this is largely the cause of the upset as far as i can see.  and since they are apparently making bank on it i can't see them changing.

i'd love to see how much they could expand their market if they had a lower price on the core software, both in terms of unit sales and upgrades.

(probably apple would just buy them then though lol)

Yonatan
Posts: 1556
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

09 Mar 2015

Yes, Computer music won´t just complain for the sake of it. There is a legit sceptical view on the R8 release. Let us hope that this trend does not become a bad habit.
That means not giving a little update while leaving the new effects and instruments as standalone RE's. I think that many of the Radical REs etc, should be delivered in upgrades. If they gradually become stock devices, they will level up making it more comparable to other great DAWs which comes with new great devices every new version. For me, it is not interesting to buy Prop REs anymore, at least not for full price. Deliver Radikal Brass, Radical Strings, Radikal Drums or A-list serie...bring Reason up a notch every upgrade.
But equally important would be to refresh the already existing devices within the software, both instruments and effects. A Neptune 2.0 for instance. An updated sampler etc. 

Sometimes I read ppl who defend the high prices with reminding us of how much we can do with what we have got, how nice the mixer is etc, but as I do agree to that, I am personally not interested in paying over and over again for things I long ago already have paid for. What we are discussing is not if Reason is good or if we like what´s already there, but what we get as we upgrade. As R7 user, we get very minimal for the price. We can think €50 each for the amps which will soon replace the Line6 (already paid for), and then €29 for the browser, drag and drop "almost" everywhere (not to the mixer), a new look, Drop to prop and dubble click notes. For some, it´s very much worth it, and it´s an ok deal depending what you value or need, but it´s in overall not really a goodwill deal, you get no extras at all. You may get what you pay for. So all voices have their needed right to be heard.   

And I heard that every major upgrade Prop had the ambition to also update the library Factory Soundbank and Orchestra. None of them came with any news with the R8 version. Therefore the release was very lukewarm.

Great with a new browser and the new look is nice, but it was not a "Wow, I must have this!"-upgrade, and while I am not in favour in only sensational big whistles, but we do need to feel some kind of "Yes!". As said before, it all comes down to common sense. R9 must deliver another level. I just hope that the Discover service is not taking too much of their time. I can only hope. But much more of the same lukewarm trend, and my loyalty and money will drop from prop instead of drop to prop. R8 is not at all bad in any way, it is a step up, but it was released a little to quickly. 

We will always use Reason as a tool, but more of us who use Reason as main DAW, buying and supporting the RE-market, we will start to use other DAWs as main, with a lot of free VSTs and only use Reason as a creative starter. If that is the aim, then Prop is on the right track, but if the aim is to get more ppl to consider reason as an all in one workstation, from start to finish, then they have to change the approach. because with less ppl who consider reason as a all-in-one station, the RE-market might vanish or get in the shadow, and that will not bring in the bigger Developers that we all hope will also join.

User avatar
Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

09 Mar 2015

Mr44Hz wrote:Well at least JP is we all know you are going to ride with PH no matter what. Tbh you really shouldn't be a mod because it causes a conflict of interest imo. You demand the last word in debates like the one we had about busses which I totally disagree with you on. I think you come from outdated recording technics and refuse to learn new ish. A lot of things you say I've found to be false but I just keep it to myself because of your faithful followers won't listen away. I'm gone.
Lunesis wrote:
I don't care if people disagree on Reason.. just try to do it hospitably. :)
Whats up Lunesis I think it would be a good idea to stop all the posts from whiners complaining about whiners it just starts flame wars. Everyone opinions needs to be respected without some forum users telling them to stop whining.I take that as an attack, basically telling me/us they don't want to hear opposing views even if they're valid. Warning needs to be giving out to those users who can't respect our opinions. Peace.

User avatar
Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

09 Mar 2015

jfrichards wrote:I am truly disgusted by the incessant complaints about the R8 upgrade.  I'm not telling you to shut up, just that I'm sick of it.  Most of the complainers have spent so much time complaining that they could have done a few odd jobs around the neighborhood, saved a little money, bought the upgrade, hired a singer, composed some songs and put out some decent music.  What did we get instead?

And on top of that, R7 without the upgrade is one of the most amazing pieces of software ever written.  I guarantee that you complainers will not get to 2% of your goals with that attitude.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy in the slightest.  I use Logic and have a studio full of non-software instruments.  Got more complaints?  Please email Propellerhead and stop turning this wonderful forum into the old putrid side of the PUF.
Theo.M wrote:
This is "worse", as in, more offensive, than any post in this topic so far, and you are just as frequent a poster as most here... so perhaps take your own advice and spend less time here. I have been keeping my mouth shut but please stop telling people what to do when you don't follow that advice yourself. You will always somehow find a way to talk about the more important things that exist in the world and how we are wasting our time posting here, 
Theo.M wrote:when it is a topic that doesn't suit you.
Theo.M wrote: 
In doing so you are contradicting yourself and are the one actually complaining.

I can point you to an endless supply of "much more important" and "productive" life tasks than
Theo.M wrote:posting in a web forum at all, ever. 
Theo.M wrote:But i don't see the point, as that is NOT what we are here to do. We are here to discuss all aspects of
Theo.M wrote:Reason, 
Theo.M wrote:and how long we want to stare at the screen all day doing so is up to the individual. Our time spent here should be without fear of being told by you how unproductive we are for doing so, which you do on a reasonably frequent basis.

My closing advice to you is to simply not partake in discussions about the R8 upgrade being "poor" (for example), as this particular topic (for example), is obviously of no interest to you and only serves to irritate you, which in turn causes you to spread behavioural advice to others.
So who is the one wasting their precious time here? You turned this topic confrontational for absolutely no reason at all. (IMO).

PS The OP's post has not even one mildly controversial line in it. It was absolutely fine and non aggressive.





Totally agree with everything here!!

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Yandex [Bot] and 22 guests