Reason upgrade dealbreaker

[KEVMOVE02]

Well, surely any company cannot satisfy all ppl. But Prop has made several blunt misstakes making quite an amount of core-users wonder and start to begin looking around for other alternatives as their "main DAW". We all would love to not to but are in limbo. That is contraproductive on Props part as the RE-shop depend on the ones who wish and trust in Reason as their main workhorse. Those ppl who complain on ppl who are questioning the development lately, are probably those who use other DAWs already (or have plenty of cash to waste) and don´t have to rely on Reason to stay afloat the years ahead.

Those who search for faults will surely find them, ofcourse that is true, but this time around one does not have to search at all, it´s delivered upfront your nose one by one by the company itself, like a kamikaze wanting to fade out. Reason is a great software, but the company is making strange priorities, and as they hitherto show no signs of changing course or communicating properly with the core users what is going on, so, expect ppl to continue to express their worries. 
Even a company doing wonder, will still bring naysayers from within or without the user-base, some are just never content with anything at all, and that is in whatever field of mankind. But one need to be sanely sceptical towards commercial companies ways of functioning, but please do not put all the sceptical voices in the same cage, because that is naive and it fools none.

Who are these "core users" that you refer to in this thread? Which media outlets gave Reason 8 a poor review? Who, besides disgruntled posters to PUF, are complaining about the direction Propellerhead has taken the last two years? We live in a bubble world and have convinced ourselves that we speak for a user community that hasn't asked us to represent them. It's one thing to express individual viewpoints and opinions; maybe a few who have similar worldviews can commiserate on a shared misery, but it is fantastical to think we have our thumb on the pulse of Propelerhead product users at large. To wit, present a single published article in an industry magazine stating that the Reason 8 upgrade for existing users is overpriced.

[Yonatan]

The two reviews that I read when it came out said that it was indeed a nice version but left not much for the R7.1 users. One do not have to be a psycic to see the obvious. It was and still is a bad deal for the R7.1 users. I am myself not a Reason nerd sitting routing cables. I live not in a Reason bubble, as I have many other interests, but I do recognice when something is not quite well in communication. Had I not bought a lot of REs trusting in this platform, I would just let it be and move to another DAW by now. I already have Logic, but prefer to work in Reason as my main, as I like that environment better, that is why I shake my head about the clumsy steps Prop have made lately, fishing in cheesy iphone waters.
I do think R8 is a jump up for Reason when it comes to workflow, but to be honest, that and two replacement amps wont do it for 129 euro.
They have these special deals going for new users to get ppl onboard, but once onboard, you matters less. For me, that gradually lessens my loyalty.
I have worked in service business and knows that is not a proper way to satisfy loyal customers. By all means, get new to the ship, but do not throw fishbones at the ones paying for the trip. Without common sense, there is no sense. 

[craven]

yes, I also remember reviews claiming that for Reason 7.1 users, this update might not be overwhelming. That might be a polite form of "it's overprized".

In the verdict under negative "Probably not a huge update if you are on version 7.1"

http://www.musictech.net/2014/09/propel ... exclusive/


Then again, this is what happens when there is one upgrade prize for all. I'm getting warmer for Reason 8 but I'm also afraid that there might be another paid version this year.

 

[KEVMOVE02]

The two reviews that I read when it came out said that it was indeed a nice version but left not much for the R7.1 users. One do not have to be a psycic to see the obvious. It was and still is a bad deal for the R7.1 users. I am myself not a Reason nerd sitting routing cables. I live not in a Reason bubble, as I have many other interests, but I do recognice when something is not quite well in communication. Had I not bought a lot of REs trusting in this platform, I would just let it be and move to another DAW by now. I already have Logic, but prefer to work in Reason as my main, as I like that environment better, that is why I shake my head about the clumsy steps Prop have made lately, fishing in cheesy iphone waters.
I do think R8 is a jump up for Reason when it comes to workflow, but to be honest, that and two replacement amps wont do it for 129 euro.
They have these special deals going for new users to get ppl onboard, but once onboard, you matters less. For me, that is not cool.
I have worked in service business and knows that is not a proper way to satisfy loyal customers. By all means, get new to the ship, but do not throw fishbones at the ones paying for the trip. Without common sense, there is no sense. 

While it is reasonable to skip a version because there is nothing of interest to justify the expense, it is not reasonable to claim that Propellerhead has betrayed its Reason 7 user base because they didn't give us enough shiny new toys. The fact that this conversation is still going on is a validation that the closing of PUF was the right thing to do. At some point you have to accept fact that "the band is not getting back together" and move on. It sounds like you have found a new dance partner anyway, so be careful, Logic might get jealous if you keep talking about your ex.

[C//AZM]

Over at UAD there is a Storm of discontent because we early adopters didn't get the free Thunderbolt card and have to pay $500 for it. Now it's free with every Apollo purchase for the same price so guys like me paid the same price for less gear. Now they have a super duper update with a new console that was originally was only for T-Bolt and people are livid. It would've been nice for UAD to give us early adopters the T-bolt card at cost or at least a couple of free plugins with purchase. If we had waited a few months, we could've gotten the same gear with a $500 T-Bolt card for free and and wouldn't have had the FW issues we encountered early on.
UAD has always been very good with customer service but in this case, they made lots of people angry and feel used.
I say all of this to say that sometimes companies can really piss off their loyal customers for (seemingly) dumbass reasons.
Don't even talk about Melodyne.

[rvman]

The only thing I'll do differently next time is to not upgrade right away. I'll wait to see if they throw in some RE's.

[zeebot]

just give me the upgrade minus the softube amps , i can always get them at another date if i need them . 

with the amps 129
without the amps 29 

just an idea .

what do you guys think ?

+1 for that! at 29 I would possibly consider upgrading though I still think the transport redesign sucks, workflow 'improvements' will still hinder my workflow and I still dont like the new browser set up but giving an option for those that dont give two craps about the softube amps is a way forward.

[True]

The last major deal (last year i think) they had would not only have saved you money (as upgrader) but made you some. If they punish anything then it is not utilizing glaringly obvious loopholes.

I don't recall there being any upgrade deals, only for new purchases. And I'm not going to run around selling and buying and dealing with licensing and all that just to get a deal. If it's worth paying for, then I will buy it; if it isn't, then I won't. R8 isn't.

[True]

No need to wait, because it is doubtful that the complainers will every be satisfied. There is a class of customer that think all products are crap, they expect to get everything free, and if they ever actually created a product and made it available for purchase, they would be offended if you asked for a one dollar discount. I can the retorts and rebuttals already, but I know the truth: its all just trash talk. Being critical of the work of others takes no skill of courage. Slamming companies like Propellerhead isn't clever at all

Wow, dismissive much? I guess I'll just call you a sheep and leave it at that, huh?

Come on, man. Yes, there are people who just batch about anything because, hey, it's the Internet after all. But there are some legitimate issues here. You can't say that everyone needs to feel the upgrade is worth the price. You can't say that there have been many (any?) significant deals for upgraders, as there have been for new customers. And those really are the two big sticking points for many people: An overpriced upgrade with nothing to sweeten the pot...unless you're paying full price.

I'm not saying Props owes us anything, but to me it's a crappy deal. So I'm not upgrading, and I'm happy to tell you why.

[Nymphomation]

 i would love a "blocks launcher". 

Now that's a great idea... With software like Ableton about, thats something that might actually happen. Good call!

[Nymphomation]

yes, I also remember reviews claiming that for Reason 7.1 users, this update might not be overwhelming. That might be a polite form of "it's overprized".

In the verdict under negative "Probably not a huge update if you are on version 7.1"

http://www.musictech.net/2014/09/propel ... exclusive/


Then again, this is what happens when there is one upgrade prize for all. I'm getting warmer for Reason 8 but I'm also afraid that there might be another paid version this year.

 

Yeah Sound on Sound gave a similar review. In fact they didn't even give it a proper review until about 3 months after it had been released - it just got mentioned in the regular 'technique' column!

[KEVMOVE02]

No need to wait, because it is doubtful that the complainers will every be satisfied. There is a class of customer that think all products are crap, they expect to get everything free, and if they ever actually created a product and made it available for purchase, they would be offended if you asked for a one dollar discount. I can the retorts and rebuttals already, but I know the truth: its all just trash talk. Being critical of the work of others takes no skill of courage. Slamming companies like Propellerhead isn't clever at all

Wow, dismissive much? I guess I'll just call you a sheep and leave it at that, huh?

Come on, man. Yes, there are people who just batch about anything because, hey, it's the Internet after all. But there are some legitimate issues here. You can't say that everyone needs to feel the upgrade is worth the price. You can't say that there have been many (any?) significant deals for upgraders, as there have been for new customers. And those really are the two big sticking points for many people: An overpriced upgrade with nothing to sweeten the pot...unless you're paying full price.

I'm not saying Props owes us anything, but to me it's a crappy deal. So I'm not upgrading, and I'm happy to tell you why.

Propellerhead has been more than charitable to its existing customers! Do the math: since Reason was introduced (2001), Propellerhead has only charged $129 for each paid upgrade (Reason 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0,7.0, 8.0). Reason 6.0 was a "pay what you want upgrade". So if you purchased every upgrade since Reason 1.0, the cost of ownership was a measly $1174!!!! How many other DAWs can claim the same thing? But wait, it gets better: Propellerhead allows any existing user to upgrade to the most recent version for the same $129!!! So now the cost of ownership for a Reason 1 user who upgraded to Reason 8 is a mere $528!!!! Come on man! That is crazy! What other company (excluding Cockos) is giving their customer that kind of love?

Propellerhead must add a massive number of new customers each year or each existing customer is buying a massive number of Refills (prior to ver 6.5) and Rack Extensions, because there is no way they are paying the bills averaging $90 per customer, per year. I don't know all the specifics, (I have purchased 4 refills and 3 Rack Extensions since Reason 4) but Propellerhead's upgrade policy and pricing has been more than generous with it's existing customers.

The vocal minority is one subset of all users; Reason 7 owners who don't think its right that brand new customers are getting such a sweet deal to join the party. If you fall into that group, you can join the group of users who fall one day outside the grace period for upgrades. You know who I'm talking about, the person who just cracked the seal on the shrink wrap or purchased a license key the day before Propellerhead kicks off the perennial "Buy Reason today and get a free upgrade to the next version". I know that crowd is shouting "back of the line!" to all the Reason 7 owners who are a little miffed. Especially the ones who replace logic with name calling. For the record I only paid $99 to upgrade to Reason 8.

[C//AZM]

Originally Posted by GRIFTY
i would love a "blocks launcher".

What's that? What is/would a block launcher do/be?

[jfrichards]

I am truly disgusted by the incessant complaints about the R8 upgrade.  I'm not telling you to shut up, just that I'm sick of it.  Most of the complainers have spent so much time complaining that they could have done a few odd jobs around the neighborhood, saved a little money, bought the upgrade, hired a singer, composed some songs and put out some decent music.  What did we get instead?

And on top of that, R7 without the upgrade is one of the most amazing pieces of software ever written.  I guarantee that you complainers will not get to 2% of your goals with that attitude.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy in the slightest.  I use Logic and have a studio full of non-software instruments.  Got more complaints?  Please email Propellerhead and stop turning this wonderful forum into the old putrid side of the PUF.

[GRIFTY]

lol, most of the whining I've seen has been people whining about people complaining

[GRIFTY]

Originally Posted by GRIFTY
i would love a "blocks launcher".

What's that? What is/would a block launcher do/be?

Imagine ableton's clip launcher.... With reason blocks! It'd be an obvious copy cat move but cool none the less

[zeebot]

I am truly disgusted by the incessant complaints about the R8 upgrade.  I'm not telling you to shut up, just that I'm sick of it.  Most of the complainers have spent so much time complaining that they could have done a few odd jobs around the neighborhood, saved a little money, bought the upgrade, hired a singer, composed some songs and put out some decent music.  What did we get instead?

And on top of that, R7 without the upgrade is one of the most amazing pieces of software ever written.  I guarantee that you complainers will not get to 2% of your goals with that attitude.

And for the record, I am not a fanboy in the slightest.  I use Logic and have a studio full of non-software instruments.  Got more complaints?  Please email Propellerhead and stop turning this wonderful forum into the old putrid side of the PUF.

Well, we all have opinions and some have valid complaints. I respect your opinion that R8 works great for you and you love discover.
I'm genuinely happy for you, please respect those that have an opinion different to yours.

[Karim]

Reason 7.5? You mean 6.5 maybe. 7.5 never existed

[craven]

Originally Posted by GRIFTY
i would love a "blocks launcher".

What's that? What is/would a block launcher do/be?

Imagine ableton's clip launcher.... With reason blocks! It'd be an obvious copy cat move but cool none the less

and I think it could be pretty awesome! I'd like to have this feature, since I haven't installed Live anymore. Only had an old version anyway and I'm very used to Reason.

[muffins4all]

Which media outlets gave Reason 8 a poor review?

While they praised Reason 8 as a first-time buy, Music Radar gave it a rather thorough trashing as a paid update.

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... -8-609573/

"Hardly a list to weaken the knees."

"Long-term users will rightly feel short-changed."

"We take no pleasure in reporting that this is the most uninspired Reason update yet, but if we're honest, we're not all that surprised."

"Sure, the new browser and drag-and-drop support are a productive step forward, but they're the sorts of things that should be expected of any DAW in 2014, rather than an excuse to charge existing users €129 for the privilege."

"it feels like loyal users are being asked to pay for what really amounts to a point update, not a full new version. Surely, they deserve a little more for a lot less."

"so knock a couple of marks off the score if you've already got v7"

So, given that they gave Reason 8 4 stars out of 5 as a first-time buy, I suppose they're giving it 2 stars out of 5 as a paid upgrade from v7.

[GRIFTY]

Yeah. About right. I'm not complaining, I'm not emotional, but the upgrade is trash value to me. I have the extra cash, but can't justify spending it to get a couple minor bug fix/basic features.

That said, and don't flame me.....

I'm SUPER excited to see what R9 brings to the table!!!!!

[phasys]

While it is reasonable to skip a version because there is nothing of interest to justify the expense, it is not reasonable to claim that Propellerhead has betrayed its Reason 7 user base because they didn't give us enough shiny new toys. The fact that this conversation is still going on is a validation that the closing of PUF was the right thing to do. At some point you have to accept fact that "the band is not getting back together" and move on. It sounds like you have found a new dance partner anyway, so be careful, Logic might get jealous if you keep talking about your ex.

This has nothing to do with "shiny new toys". They broke Reason. 

Reason 8 is a frankensteins monster. It's bits and parts glued together in a horrible way with a shiny new (get it?) front end to masquerade the actual piece of shit that's behind the flashy facade.

[JiggeryPokery]

To wit, present a single published article in an industry magazine stating that the Reason 8 upgrade for existing users is overpriced.

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... n-8-609573

"Verdict
Reason is still a great first-time buy. Those upgrading may feel short-changed, though, so knock a couple of marks off the score if you've already got v7."



http://www.keyboardmag.com/daw-software ... ewed/49907
"Conclusions
For current Reason users, is the $129 upgrade worth the money? If you’re strictly recording audio tracks, maybe not."


http://www.musictech.net/2014/09/propel ... exclusive/

" Whether the upgrade from 7 to 8 is for you will depend on whether you like the idea of an integrated browser, new look and the new guitar modules"

[MDTerps2015]

I have made this argument over and over. Been a Reason user since 3.0. Im all but ready to go back to Cubase which i started with and then rewired Reason, then strictly Reason. Guess i have to go back to be satisfied. 

[KEVMOVE02]

Come on guys, you can't cherry pick a line or two from an article that supports your argument, then ignore the rest. I stand by my statements;the only people who are relentless with their criticism of R8 are those that already had R7. What is really bizarre is the amount of anguish that is being expressed by individuals who didn't buy the upgrade. Why would you keep talking about it? Is it cathartic? Does it improve your quality of life? Does it help in making a transition to something? Sorry guys, but this whole conversation is starting to resemble group therapy.