Do you think sales of RE's are down after the forum closure?

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Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

I'm wondering of the sales of RE's will be affected due to the closure of the forum closure. 

I would be very surprised if they stayed the same.  Can an RE dev comment?

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selig
RE Developer
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

24 Feb 2015

Heater wrote:I'm wondering of the sales of RE's will be affected due to the closure of the forum closure. 

I would be very surprised if they stayed the same.  Can an RE dev comment?
I would say it's too early to tell (sales figures aren't in for a long enough period to tell yet), and there is often peaks and valleys in the sales data that doesn't line up with any known event. Others have suggested the forum was only an "active" membership of maybe 400 or so (can't remember who suggested this, but it seems logical to me). This forum doesn't have that many active members (or does it?), but it may be close, so it may not matter.

Folks suggested RE sales would be down with the release of R8, and with the release of SDK2, and probably other things as well. So far things as still moving along as far as I can tell. :)
Selig Audio, LLC

KEVMOVE02
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

I don't think there is any way to answer your question without a significant amount of speculation and bias. I hope this thread doesn't turn into a "REs Suck" or "the RE EULA Sucks" thread. 

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

Thanks Selig.  Glad to know things are ticking over for you.

I'm wondering how the Props will maintain visibility with the forum closure but you've already answered that by saying that relative to Reason sales, the forum wasn't populated by that many people.  
On the other hand.  I wonder what the sales rate for active forum members vs non-active forum members were?  Probably impossible to answer that question.

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selig
RE Developer
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24 Feb 2015

Heater wrote:Thanks Selig.  Glad to know things are ticking over for you.

I'm wondering how the Props will maintain visibility with the forum closure but you've already answered that by saying that relative to Reason sales, the forum wasn't populated by that many people.  
On the other hand.  I wonder what the sales rate for active forum members vs non-active forum members were?  Probably impossible to answer that question.
Yea, that's the type of data many folks probably wish they knew!
;)
Selig Audio, LLC

Heater
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

selig wrote:Yea, that's the type of data many folks probably wish they knew!
;)
LOL :)

avasopht
Competition Winner
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24 Feb 2015

No. The Propellerhead Facebook page has like, 90k likes ;)  Maybe there is like, a 0.01% drop :D

KEVMOVE02
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

Keep in mind that there are/were a lot of requirements to be considered a part of the target population:
  • Registered user of Reason to be post to PUF (not general forum)
  • Rack Extensions require reason 6.5 or above
  • Reason 7 requires Windows 7 and above or OSX 10.7 and above
  • Actively participated on PUF
  • Purchased a non-bundled Rack Extension, based on info provided on PUF
Now compare that group against all of the users who purchased a Rack Extension without being a registered member of PUF (good luck with getting that  kind of data). Which population is larger? I think the number of people who purchase software and never participate an associated user forum accounts for most software sales. Those who do participate tend to be very vocal and are eager to contribute to product development. This degree of fandom can work in favor of the developer, provided clear expectations are established for both parties. Unfortunately, some users who expect a high degree of interaction experience significant disillusionment when their expectations are not met. 

As to your original question, you could look at information that is public and make some conclusions:
  • Track the bestseller lists and determine what percentage of REs are developed by Propellerhead vs third parties. If Propellerhead products make up the bulk of the best sellers, that could mean widespread adoption of the format is not happening.
  • Track the number of new REs month to month, compared to prior year. As a format matures, you should see an increase number of REs published by established developers, along with new developers entering the market. This stat also is a good indicator of adoption rate. It is rare that a company produces a wildly successful platform that doesn't also create lots of new developers (Nintendo WII is the case study on how you can have the best selling game platform, that nobody but a second game to play).
  • Track the number of ports from other formats. Are the best selling plugins/VSTs being ported to the RE format? This is not a death sentence, but it certainly sends the message that third party developers are not convinced yet. 
It will be interesting to see what happens with Rack Extensions this year. 

electrofux
Posts: 863
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

I think it will cost them some sales. The forum had the ability to hype stuff up. There was interaction with devs, stuff was explained etc etc. It made Propellerheads as a company less anonymous (even though they never really participated in the forums). There were loads more people watching than participating in the forum. And there are people like me who made the closure of the forums supsicious and thinking twice about investing further money into a closed system with no ability to cash out and sell REs.
At least they made me take a really deep look at what Ableton has to offer (which has some good and bad compared to Reason) and currently i am trying to integrate both (not the easiest task even with Rewire). If i succeed and it looks like it then i buy Live which would have otherwise went into REs in parts. But that is just me.

True
Posts: 204
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

24 Feb 2015

electrofux wrote:The forum had the ability to hype stuff up.
It also had the ability to dogpile onto REs for such stupid reasons as the ugliness of the UI or the lack of forum involvement of the developer. So I'd bet it evens out.

My primary concern is that if I want to start considering an older RE, I can no longer go back and look at all the things people were saying about it when they first tried it. Sure, I can post something here and those who own it could have a say; maybe a few who tried it and remember much about it...but it isn't the same as that massive discussion the REs got when they first appeared. I am not good at all-around testing an RE during the 30-day period. I'll download it and slap it in a few projects and make a decision. I may not realize its limitations/bugs until much later.

KEVMOVE02
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

electrofux wrote:There were loads more people watching than participating in the forum.
There couldn't be that many people watching, because of the $400 membership fee to get into the club house. Even if did they get in, they still had to get past the bouncers in front of the Reason 6.5 and Above door or the Windows 7 and Above Door. 

electrofux
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24 Feb 2015

electrofux wrote:There were loads more people watching than participating in the forum.
KEVMOVE02 wrote:
There couldn't be that many people watching, because of the $400 membership fee to get into the club house. Even if did they get in, they still had to get past the bouncers in front of the
KEVMOVE02 wrote:Reason 6.5 and Above 
KEVMOVE02 wrote:door or the
KEVMOVE02 wrote:Windows 7 and Above Door. 


Well, i was speaking about the registered (Reason owning) people anyways. Of those many were not posting but following the forum. Quite a few of them voiced up on the close.
And out of this group i think they will lose some sales due to the closed forum. But that is just an assumption and me concluding from my behaviour to others.

avasopht
Competition Winner
Posts: 3932
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

Propellerhead not only have the facebook page but they have your email addresses. Last I heard my inbox has received a fair number of message from Propellerhead, plus their Facebook announcements.

The population of people who used the forum and don't use facebook I would imagine is incredibly small :)

lowpryo
Posts: 452
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

if my bank account is any indication... no, it has not affected sales  :crazy:

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forensickbeats
Posts: 130
Joined: 24 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

OP, their forum, I believe, was unaccessible to non registered users, only to people already customers, so I think NO.

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SteveDiverse
Posts: 108
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

24 Feb 2015

i don't think the old forum was much of a sales generator, so i don't think its going away will have an impact on sales.

in fact, i think the new site might increase sales, at least of reason - not sure about rack extensions though.

i think there was much more negative talk about REs on the props forums than positive - so the forums might have actually hurt sales, and they could be up now that it's shut down.

the music content on the new site is a much more compelling reason to visit the site than were the forums, especially for people who don't yet own reason.

and all of the posted music has a link to try reason - and to download the song file, which in order to open, you have to own reason.

so where before, only registered users were going to the forums, now all sorts of people will find their way to the site, following links of stuff posted by friends of friends of friends on facebook - and right their under their friend's track is a link to download the reason song file, and a link to try reason.

some of those song files will use REs, and people will see the missing rack extension and the link to try it.  

yes, the forums were a captive audience of people who already own reason, the draw to the new site is potentially much larger.

by the way, you can see the user count for this site at the bottom of the home page, there's just over 800 now - that's not very much compare to the 90,000 that have liked the props facebook page.

:reason: :reload: :record: :ignition: :refill: :re: | :rt: FTW

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

25 Feb 2015

the star rating system is probably more misleading then the RE forum ever was and that's all users have to go on now, apart from the trial which gets used on a whim when you're a noob.  I know i probably wouldn't buy an RE unless i could get some info on latency/CPU use etc because those things really matter right now.  even if that's a small group of people we do tend to spend a fair bit in a small market and it's all word of mouth.

i suppose PUF regulars have this place but it's going to take some time to be the first hit on "reason forum" etc.

Guitarzandstuff
Posts: 1
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

26 Feb 2015

It used to be the first forum I read every morning with my coffee, especially keeping an eye on REs. Since it's closed, I've been to the Props site maybe twice.

I haven't purchased anything since either (although nothing really floats my boat)

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zeebot
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26 Feb 2015

Well, I got a spam mail from the newly branded props telling me about the new RE and refill releases, simply deleted it.
I got all my info from the PUF and now here. Haven't bought a RE or refill since the PUF went down. I just feel somehow disconnected from props these days and that has definitely influenced my purchases.
I have embraced Allihoopa. Come listen and play with my crap Figure loops here:
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They really are crap.

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moneykube
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26 Feb 2015

I agree with you 100 percent zeebot…. probably would have heard about the parsec update sooner had I frequented their site… the first time and only time I went there to see what they had was 3 days ago… I've lost all trust in them.
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KEVMOVE02
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

26 Feb 2015

zeebot wrote:Well, I got a spam mail from the newly branded props telling me about the new RE and refill releases, simply deleted it.
I got all my info from the PUF and now here. Haven't bought a RE or refill since the PUF went down. I just feel somehow disconnected from props these days and that has definitely influenced my purchases.
I'm fairly certain that Propellerhead did a SWOT analysis of the income impact related to the closure of PUF and determined that the risk was negligible, as compared to the opportunities that would become available when they tore down the walls of exclusivity. 

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ScuzzyEye
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26 Feb 2015

I don't get how anyone thinks the Props are less engaged with their users after the closing of the PUF. Just about the only time I'd see them interacting on the old board was to lock a thread that had gotten out of control. They post here just as frequently, but at least these posts are useful.

Since the closing of the PUF they're a lot more active on Twitter and Facebook.

I never visited the main part of their site while the forum was active, so that hasn't change at all for me. I had the forums and the shop, with items sorted by date saved as bookmarks.

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gak
Posts: 2840
Joined: 05 Feb 2015

27 Feb 2015

Too new to know a thing, but this forum has been REALLY helpful in understanding many aspects of RE's. Yeah, you can cruise on your own but I always thought it was helpful to have some views and opinions of whats hot.

Also, you guys seem to be all over the newest stuff, so it's nice to hear that way. 

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