I guess this is what they dreamed about with discover.

[Gorilla Texas]

http://phead.mu/s/LZ2kP2FV

Dude got 8 people to remix it and it shows on his page.

[EnochLight]

http://phead.mu/s/LZ2kP2FV

Dude got 8 people to remix it and it shows on his page.

Indeed.  Start an infrastructure that inspires people to collaborate and just "create".  Seems like it's working for some, depending on the content.  

He's got over 4,600 plays too.  Not too shabby!  

[doinky]

This is so depressing. It reminds me of ideas I've started but couldn't finish for tracks. A few loop ideas that did little to inspire me to blow it up to a full size tune so I'd just save it to an idea folder where many relics now sit.

So many have tried to impress, but the result always seems to be the same thing. Just an idea or an endless drone of looping simplicity. I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again. Collaboration like that seems to far and between.

I liken it to eating a pill for supper and not having the satisfaction of tasting it.

[Gorilla Texas]

This is so depressing. It reminds me of ideas I've started but couldn't finish for tracks. A few loop ideas that did little to inspire me to blow it up to a full size tune so I'd just save it to an idea folder where many relics now sit. So many have tried to impress, but the result always seems to be the same thing. Just an idea or an endless drone of looping simplicity. I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again. Collaboration like that seems to far and between. I liken it to eating a pill for supper and not having the satisfaction of tasting it.

Its interesting what one thinks is creative another thinks is 'endless drone'. Is it that my own perception of creativity is lacking or that the other who sees nothing creative is lacking in the very same thing?
For instance I really loved the play of the high hat timing. Felt that the mix was excellent overall.

Well it should be because the producer who made it is a professional,check out the artists section.

[forensickbeats]

Discover doesn`t get successful -> Prop FAILS.

Discover gets successful -> Competition makes similar service available for everybody ->  Prop FAILS.



Dis is pure marketing  tactic  for attracting new customers to Props, it has little to do with the stated goal in the ad (the way I see it).

[doinky]

Where is this professionals web page?

Anyways, it could have been by made by Taylor Swift and it wouldn't change my impression. The problem is there is still no heart beating music coming from these apps out there. No one is going to dance on the floor until someone takes discover seriously.

And here's where I scratch my head about collaboration over the web. Perhaps app collaborating is what's messing up the artists intent to take it to the next level. Without a leader to lead and a table to sit around and discuss ideas there is no group collaboration. Where as just producing the song yourself is much more artistic allowing for hooks, passageways, intro sounds, sound effects and changeup. All the things that grab our listening attention.

Point is, this collaboration just adds loops, it doesn't seem to think through things like an actual band would. Very disappointed with the results so far.

[Gorilla Texas]

Where is this professionals web page?

Anyways, it could have been by made by Taylor Swift and it wouldn't change my impression. The problem is there is still no heart beating music coming from these apps out there. No one is going to dance on the floor until someone takes discover seriously.

And here's where I scratch my head about collaboration over the web. Perhaps app collaborating is what's messing up the artists intent to take it to the next level. Without a leader to lead and a table to sit around and discuss ideas there is no group collaboration. Where as just producing the song yourself is much more artistic allowing for hooks, passageways, intro sounds, sound effects and changeup. All the things that grab our listening attention.

Point is, this collaboration just adds loops, it doesn't seem to think through things like an actual band would. Very disappointed with the results so far.

Check the blog section. Also I agree with you.

[KEVMOVE02]

This takes me back... bunch of critics, standing around the DJ Booth, trash talking the only that's making an effort. "Dude, somebody's gonna do a better job, then you won't have a gig anymore." Dude, they actually paid you to play that set?" Dude, I can't believe they gave you an award for that song when all you did is add one thing to the song." "Dude, I could be rich and famous too, if I was willing to sell out and not stay true to my art." "Dude, what do you mean, they shutdown our forum?! They will be out of business soon."  

[jfrichards]

...I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again...

http://phead.mu/s/uUs0XRjx - great vocals and structure added

http://phead.mu/s/ArXHypkm - me adding a little guitar

The problem I see is that the access to the stems or the Reason files is so limited, you can't take it that far unless you know the people.  And there's no way to contact people in Discover!  We'll see when beta is over what they do.

The James Cooper/Adam Fielding/Brent Rossen piece is another good example of where it can go:

http://phead.mu/s/aBeZCpD6

http://phead.mu/s/RzqQTvEh

http://phead.mu/s/js1kYfnR

http://phead.mu/s/BrASxYMR - me adding guitar and tribal breaks

It's still kinda weird that if you make something really good, you've already given publishing and financial rights to anyone who wants it.  Don't know how that will play out.

[Gaja]

...I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again...

http://phead.mu/s/uUs0XRjx

- great vocals and structure added

http://phead.mu/s/ArXHypkm

- me adding a little guitar

The problem I see is that the access to the stems or the Reason files is so limited, you can't take it that far unless you know the people.  And there's no way to contact people in Discover!  We'll see when beta is over what they do.

The James Cooper/Adam Fielding/Brent Rossen piece is another good example of where it can go:

http://phead.mu/s/aBeZCpD6

http://phead.mu/s/RzqQTvEh

http://phead.mu/s/js1kYfnR

http://phead.mu/s/BrASxYMR

- me adding guitar and tribal breaks

It's still kinda weird that if you make something really good, you've already given publishing and financial rights to anyone who wants it.  Don't know how that will play out.

I think, from what I've seen so far, you can only publish the song if you change something. You have to add a little breathing in the chorus at least, if you want to upload it to discover.

[doinky]

...I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again...

http://phead.mu/s/uUs0XRjx

- great vocals and structure added

http://phead.mu/s/ArXHypkm

- me adding a little guitar

The problem I see is that the access to the stems or the Reason files is so limited, you can't take it that far unless you know the people.

I can't seriously see these being played on a radio. When I make a tune, it's got to have an intro, verse, chorus perhaps a bridge. And an ending. So far, none of the examples I'm hearing sound structured enough that way for radio play. And yes, I agree, something needs to be done for real-time collaboration. Especially with video feed collaboration.

[Yonatan]

One thing I can think of that is being very usable with these snippets of musical ideas is for video productions. 
You make a video, and need some free music stuff to use here and there. As for now, I understand
any video producer could use any of these musical clips without even telling it, and even for
commercial use. Common sense is to ask or at least tell the creators about it, giving credit
in the video and a link, it could be a win-win, but I see it´s too confused at the moment
what is what, and who´s the creator etc.
Things can be free flowing, but some sort of common rules (creative commons)
with some requirements for usage, would be good for all involved.

[mcatalao]

Maybe it's me, but they all sound cr@p to my ears.

I think i'll keep away from discover, at least for now!

[Yonatan]

Good question...well, some governing must be there, in this phase I guess it´s ok, but 7 billion people...that is another story. 

[guitfnky]

I kind of agree with doinky, in that a lot of the stuff is very unfinished-feeling, but that also makes sense, considering most of the stuff being posted (presumably) is being put there for that very reason.  they want someone to do some more work with it.

I also agree with KEVMOVE02; the only way it works is if we actually take the step of moving beyond just listening, and do what we're supposed to, which is use these tracks and improve on them.  

it's really easy to just say "yeah, that does nothing for me because they didn't do XYZ", but the tracks are there for us to pick up and do XYZ.

to that end, I imported and messed around with this track below:

http://phead.mu/s/p3BcJkxz

out of the box, this would fall into the category that doinky mentioned earlier (it's got some cool ideas, but doesn't really seem to go anywhere specific [to me]).  I took out three bits that I thought I could add to, and pasted them into their own Blocks.  really, I just added guitar and bass, but I think I was able to do it in a way that the song has a bit more direction.  it's not 100% where I'd take it if I wanted to really dig into it, since I promised myself I'd just work on it today, but I think it's on its way to feeling more complete.

here's what I ended up with:

http://phead.mu/s/LlY5soW1

as it is now, Discover isn't yet a robust collaboration tool, but it could be, and if we use it well, I think it will be.  

as I tell my girlfriend, don't h8, collabor8!  (I know, that's horrible, and she hates when I say it, which is why I do, haha!)

[eusti]

Very neat, guitfnky! You really made something out of it!

Edit: Actually, I sometimes wish the original part would change either in rhythm or harmonically a bit in some parts of the song... I mean, it all works... And how beautifully... But at times the original "inspiration" might not even be needed anymore...

D.

[guitfnky]

Very neat, guitfnky! You really made something out of it!

Edit: Actually, I sometimes wish the original part would change either in rhythm or harmonically a bit in some parts of the song... I mean, it all works... And how beautifully... But at times the original "inspiration" might not even be needed anymore...

D.

thanks a lot, eusti!

I agree with you that it would help in some spots to have something a bit different going on. this is where my lack of remixing knowledge rears its ugly head, haha! if I'd has stems or something, I probably would have kept just the drum pattern in some spots, but I really loved the groove of it and I wasn't confident that I'd be able to approximate closely enough the way the beat sounded (EQ, etc.) with my own stuff.

that's why I'm hoping they'll come up with some sort of really elegant solution to make Discover more robust. if they can figure that out, I think we'll really start to see it take off.

[doinky]

gutfiniky. Yours is more what I expect. I think looping it in one key however was a bit repetitive and offish in the tune. But hey, you used it more then most have so far.

Hearing the results of others makes me think discover is more about distractions then getting ideas for your own music.

[guitfnky]

gutfiniky. Yours is more what I expect. I think looping it in one key however was a bit repetitive and offish in the tune. But hey, you used it more then most have so far.

Hearing the results of others makes me think discover is more about distractions then getting ideas for your own music.

I'll take it. I guess for me, any movement towards a better end product is worthwhile, even if it's just incremental.

[QVprod]

Where is this professionals web page?

Actually, have to chime in here. Mike Kuz is actually my boy from college. In fact he's one of the guys who introduced me to Reason around 2008. He's definitely a professional.

You can check him out here:

http://www.mikekuzmusic.com/

http://www.stadiumred.com/home/about/mike-kuzoian/


As far as Discover goes, we need to look at it as what it is: a beta for something to be further embellished on later. It's also worth noting that even in its current state where it shines is when people take the content out of the box. That video Ryan did comes to mind...

[lowpryo]

...I've yet to see someone kick it up and add verses, chorus and really get the juices pumping and feel satisfied to listen to it again and again...

http://phead.mu/s/uUs0XRjx

- great vocals and structure added

http://phead.mu/s/ArXHypkm

- me adding a little guitar

The problem I see is that the access to the stems or the Reason files is so limited, you can't take it that far unless you know the people.

I can't seriously see these being played on a radio. When I make a tune, it's got to have an intro, verse, chorus perhaps a bridge. And an ending. So far, none of the examples I'm hearing sound structured enough that way for radio play. And yes, I agree, something needs to be done for real-time collaboration. Especially with video feed collaboration.

 
I agree with everything you've been saying, but at the end of the day, music is a subjective medium. and what might be repetitive and boring to us is actually very enjoyable to some other people. particularly in hip-hop and instrumental 'beat' genres, there are a lot of successful artists who release very repetitive music. they establish a mood and a motif, and stick with it for 2 or 3 minutes, and that's what the fans like.

based on this, I think a more valid criticism of Discover is that it's a one-trick pony. it caters more to styles like these. without being able to send around full stems and midi data, you're hardly ever going to see ambitious artists creating dynamic and winding song structures with this system. but it certainly has a purpose, it just isn't for us (so far)

[jonheal]

When the Kanyé/Beck brouhaha was cresting, people were making a big deal of the fact that Beck contributed to Beck's album, while about 20 people contributed to Beyoncé's. The implication being that it was a good thing to be able to create music by yourself.

So, collaboration is all well and good, but at the end of it, what will folks take away with regard to their feelings of personal accomplishment?

All the time, artists rail on and/or pity folks stuck in "regular jobs;" seeing them as nameless cogs in a corporate machine.

Well, what's the difference? Doesn't this endless organization chart of collaboration do the same thing? Turn you into a nameless cog in the music-creation machine?

[lowpryo]

When the Kanyé/Beck brouhaha was cresting, people were making a big deal of the fact that Beck contributed to Beck's album, while about 20 people contributed to Beyoncé's. The implication being that it was a good thing to be able to create music by yourself.

So, collaboration is all well and good, but at the end of it, what will folks take away with regard to their feelings of personal accomplishment?

All the time, artists rail on and/or pity folks stuck in "regular jobs;" seeing them as nameless cogs in a corporate machine.

Well, what's the difference? Doesn't this endless organization chart of collaboration do the same thing? Turn you into a nameless cog in the music-creation machine?

 
I think some people only disrespect the Beyonce kinda collaboration because it's all hidden. She's just a product of some larger machine of people all collaborating and calculating the music and the brand, and then they wrap it up with a bow and call it "Beyonce". the complainers are just being vocal about their disrespect for how the pop music industry works. people appreciate when multiple true artists collaborate with each other and each receive their fair share of the credit.

[jonheal]

I think some people only disrespect the Beyonce kinda collaboration because it's all hidden. She's just a product of some larger machine of people all collaborating and calculating the music and the brand, and then they wrap it up with a bow and call it "Beyonce". the complainers are just being vocal about their disrespect for how the pop music industry works. people appreciate when multiple true artists collaborate with each other and each receive their fair share of the credit.

I guess my question is a matter of degree.

Obviously, lots of band members within bands collaborate.

But what does it mean for the individual's contribution to the complete song when 20 or 30 or 50 people have put in their two cents worth?