8 Years Ago, Propellerhead Was Doomed to Fail Because...

[The Tone Ranger]

reaper is so cheap why not have it? 

That is why I got it. It does work well too.

Reason I got Reason....oh boy...bad pun :s0106: ...was to do some experimental stuff with CV as well. Seems not many DAWs work with CV.

there is that, but then you have synths that have everything like that internal and then processing as well and so you wonder if that's really a needed unique.  most of the time you just want to route audio about the place, more so with reason 6, obviously.  and the likes of reaper are pretty amazing for that and i haven't even gotten to some of the signal to control stuff you can do yet.

but reaper is scary.  and i've had it since 2011 and still scary.

I find the CV routing in Reason a lot easier to get my ideas down than making the equivalent in Reaktor. That's the only synth I know that has everything internal but it's a pain in the ass.

[zakalwe]

not that I have any numbers, of course, but Ernst made a public statement twice, that they are market leaders after ProTools. (Which obviously is number 1 for various reasons) so it's certainly safe to assume that they do have market share.

well i don't know where they get their information from but are you really saying that protools and reason are #1 and #2 by marketshare?

[zakalwe]

I find the CV routing in Reason a lot easier to get my ideas down than making the equivalent in Reaktor. That's the only synth I know that has everything internal but it's a pain in the ass.

i don't necessarily mean a full modular system.  something like zebra, for example.  you don't need anything like CV monster as it has built in MSEGs, it has dual filters so you don't really need filterbanks, and also arpeggiator, effects and kitchen sink.  there's a lot of modulation options there.

[Gaja]

not that I have any numbers, of course, but Ernst made a public statement twice, that they are market leaders after ProTools. (Which obviously is number 1 for various reasons) so it's certainly safe to assume that they do have market share.

well i don't know where they get their information from but are you really saying that protools and reason are #1 and #2 by marketshare?

It was about how the software sells iirc.
http://www.kvraudio.com/interviews/in-s ... -b-s-25935

The other time he made this statement is here:
http://vimeo.com/22547651

If market share is different from copies sold, then I apologize for my ignorance and kindly request enlightenment on the subject.

[avasopht]

Well market share of software is not so clear cut.

You have purchases, total users, monthly active users and total combined user hours. They may all be different but are all measures of success of some sort.

So FLStudio might have the highest MAU, but lowest sales.

[Gorilla Texas]

Came across this post and was intrigued how the more things change, the more they stay the same:

Reason 4 - If this does not support VSTs I imagine even the faithful will drift to other DAWs like Live, Cubase, Logic. It has to be implemented at some point, but the question is will you buy this next version if they do not implement VST support. Audio in would be great,but that’s not as revolutionary as VST support in Reason. I see them going under if they fail to answer the calls of the customers, because at the end of the day, this is who pays the programmers. To bad the company doesn't reach out to there customers with planned release dates, it’s a bit nerve racking for some.

Name withheld

Will we ever accept the fact that a diversity of software, that does not have duplicate features and functions, is in the best interest of the musician and the industry? Why is there so much "feature envy?" I don't need Steinberg, Propellerhead, Ableton or Cakewalk to do the same thing better; I need them to do differently with all their heart. After Akai created the APC40, who could have predicted Push? When I first saw the Novation Launchpad, I screamed "copycat"! Now, I can't wait to get the latest version. Did we ever imagine that a controller would be designed specifically for Reason? While Propellerhead had to discontinue Balance, I am really glad they tried, because its an indicator that they have not become complacent nor compliant. They remain faithful to the same vision that produced ReBirth, ReCycle and the Reason ReFill (which turned out to be a pretty successful model for including the artists/sound designer in the creative process). It is likely that Propellerhead will make a few more products that are not successful. I'm willing to stick around to see their next creation that changes the game.  

[/color]

It's not really about "feature envy" but wanting more modern tools and common sense features. The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded. The samplers are badly outdated Imo. I don't really need reason to be like my other DAWs but I need them to keep up with technology.

[zakalwe]

It was about how the software sells iirc. http://www.kvraudio.com/interviews/in-s ... -b-s-25935 The other time he made this statement is here: http://vimeo.com/22547651 If market share is different from copies sold, then I apologize for my ignorance and kindly request enlightenment on the subject.

it's both a bit vague (best selling) and strangely specific (cross-platform.)

i suspect it means that if they look at sales data in a certain time frame and exclude certain platform specific software then reason nearly tops sales.  which actually means that either FL studio or logic pro audio outsell it, possibly both, but that reason is selling well at the moment, regardless.

but however you define market share if it's installed userbase or total copies sold then i doubt reason is inside the top 5.

[At Vero Eos]

The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun13/a ... ason-7.htm:

Reason 7 adds bus/group channels for the first time, letting you submix entire drum kits, layered guitars and so on to one fader.

[Gorilla Texas]

The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun13/a ... ason-7.htm

:

Reason 7 adds bus/group channels for the first time, letting you submix entire drum kits, layered guitars and so on to one fader.

Not the samething.

[EnochLight]

The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun13/a ... ason-7.htm

:

Reason 7 adds bus/group channels for the first time, letting you submix entire drum kits, layered guitars and so on to one fader.

Not the samething.

Well, as pointed out - you can group faders.  You'll need to elaborate more on what you mean by "link"...

Anyway, some would say that no VST support in Reason is retarded.  I would argue that having RE's instead is a far better choice.  YMMV.

[Gorilla Texas]

The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun13/a ... ason-7.htm

:

Reason 7 adds bus/group channels for the first time, letting you submix entire drum kits, layered guitars and so on to one fader.

Not the samething.

Well, as pointed out - you

can

group faders.  You'll need to elaborate more on what you mean by "link"...

Anyway, some would say that no VST support in Reason is retarded.  I would argue that having RE's instead is a far better choice.  YMMV.

Busses ain't the same as fader groups by any means.

[trimph1]

I guess, for me anyways, it comes down to possibilities within this DAW. I am more of an experimental musician. Have been for most of my life...even way back when I got my ARP2600.

I like how one can bang things together, as is quite obvious in my thread, and get some quite amazing things happening in there.

It comes down to how one interprets things.

[KEVMOVE02]

Can we please find another way to convey our thoughts and emotions without using derogatory language, such as "retarded". This word is most often used as a slur, and has no place in this conversation.

[trimph1]

Can we please find another way to convey our thoughts and emotions without using derogatory language, such as "retarded". This word is most often used as a slur, and has no place in this conversation.

Fully agree here.

It really is kind of useless to say a piece of software is "retarded" because all that does is ignite more flaming....and we do not need more flame sessions.

[KEVMOVE02]

 It's not really about "feature envy" but wanting more modern tools and common sense features. The fact that it's still not possible to link or group faders is retarded. The samplers are badly outdated Imo. I don't really need reason to be like my other DAWs but I need them to keep up with technology.

1. Your'e making my case for me: wanting features and/or tools available in another product is the very definition of "feature envy".
2. What is the measurement used to decide whether a specific piece of hardware or software is "outdated"? Even if something has become outdated, does that also mean it is no longer useful? For example, MIDI has been around since 1985. There are newer, more efficient communication protocols available, yet MIDI still thrives. Which features or instruments in the Reason are no longer useful?
3. Even if I were to agree that Reason is outdated, the Reason Rack can be used with any ReWire Host or thru MIDI (both old technologies), effectively nullifying any feature gaps."

[trimph1]

I think it comes down to how one interprets it.

Some see the glass as half full.

Others see it as half empty.

Then, of course, there are those who say something is out-dated.

I've been trying, for some time now, to find the expiry date...can one show me this?

I just finished restoring an old out-dated '55 chev...what am I thinking of... :s0106: :s0959:

[EnochLight]

Busses ain't the same as fader groups by any means.

What do you want the faders to do?  Still not understanding the term "link", mentioned earlier.

[EnochLight]

Can we please find another way to convey our thoughts and emotions without using derogatory language, such as "retarded". This word is most often used as a slur, and has no place in this conversation.

Things have indeed changed since the late 80's/early 90's television:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYmn3Gwn3oI

[Gorilla Texas]

Busses ain't the same as fader groups by any means.

What do you want the faders to do?  Still not understanding the term "link", mentioned earlier.

Different DAWs use different terminology for grouping faders. In FL you can link faders.

[KEVMOVE02]

Can we please find another way to convey our thoughts and emotions without using derogatory language, such as "retarded". This word is most often used as a slur, and has no place in this conversation.

Things have indeed changed since the late 80's/early 90's television:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYmn3Gwn3oI

All joking aside (love the Quantum Leap reference), members of the  intellectual and developmental disabilities community reject all attempts to label them, and are greatly offended by terms such as "retarded" or "mentally challenged". Think for a moment that a person lurking here, on the fence about joining Reasontalk, reading a thread about the state of the software, when out of nowhere, this term pops up. Apology not accepted. 

[Gorilla Texas]

Can we please find another way to convey our thoughts and emotions without using derogatory language, such as "retarded". This word is most often used as a slur, and has no place in this conversation.

Things have indeed changed since the late 80's/early 90's television:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYmn3Gwn3oI

All joking aside (love the Quantum Leap reference), members of the 

 intellectual and developmental disabilities

 community reject all attempts to label them, and are greatly offended by terms such as "retarded" or "mentally challenged". Think for a moment that a person lurking here, on the fence about joining Reasontalk, reading a thread about the state of the software, when out of nowhere, this term pops up. Apology not accepted. 

I think you're over reacting a little. You act like we're children on. this forum. How bout it's shitty then,feel better? You make a good point I'll just say reason is shitty next time.

[trimph1]

I had been diagnosed borderline retarded when I was younger. That was before they found out I had Dyslexia.

It does get overused waaaaay too much.

[EnochLight]

Different DAWs use different terminology for grouping faders. In FL you can link faders.

 What do you want the faders to do?  Still not understanding the term "link", mentioned earlier.

[eXode]

Busses ain't the same as fader groups by any means.

Yes we understand that, but you have failed to explain how they are different and whether they're just different means to reach the same goal.

[zakalwe]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/a ... groups.htm

google!