Why do I feel so lost with almost every synth's but manage to do it all with subtractor ?

[CharlyCharlzz]

I manage to make almost all the sounds I want or need with the subtractor and my sh-201 ,
I got a couple volcas and it is easy because they designed to be simple to make good stuff in what they do .
but once I start on my Minibrute I get very limited in doing what I want and unlimited in doing abstract noise .
I feel even worst when I use thor , I make good sounds with thor but the programming is just not my thing I just get lost everytime .

so why ? what is the next step to learn after using subtractor and combinators ?
i love doing bass , kick's that boom or hit hard , crazy krusty snares and leads or pads but I would like to load a upgrade in my brain to just go to the next step .
 

[tibah]

There is a stage where synths become fully-featured, but also less fun. Thor never *rocked* my world, while in theory it could be everything I needed.

Sub/Mal are a great couple in my book and both remain simple on the front. Until this date, I get a little "stop in motion" moment when I have to use a mod matrix. It just don't work for me, intuitively. It's of course nice to work with, but it kills a certain flow which is one more reason why I preferred Sub/Mal since both have fixed modulation targets.

So, if you ask me, enjoy more noodles with Malström. It still offers some undiscovered ground! Who says that you actually need a more complicated synthesis. Put 3 Malströms in a Combi, work on some layer sounds, use some Pulsar and Matrix Curve CV for additional modulations, enjoy your week!  

[normen]

In reality they're all just subtractive synths.. The good thing is that if you master subtractor then you can do at least the things you can do in subtractor in a synth with more features as well. Then on top of that you get new features that you can explore, using your existing knowledge. If theres a moment where you think "aww now if I only could do this and that" with subtractor, maybe you can in thor. Stick to what you know and only start adding other things when you need them or when you can still oversee what you're actually doing.

[CharlyCharlzz]

@george , yhea it's awesome to stay to these but sometimes I wish .... 

@ichmensch , awesome reply yhea it's a nice way to stop thinking about it , still I would love to do more .

@normen , yes that is very tru ! but I for exemple cant reproduce super well most subtractor patch's into the minibrute ...... but now reading you maybe I should just make A/B visuals and get used to it this way

[tibah]

Subtractor isn't too bad. Loads of wave-forms, FM and the phase shift options are rather great options not many *simple* VA/subtractive synths have.

I would recommend Malström mainly because you can do A LOT with tweaking and modulating shift, motion and index. You can *freeze* portions of the grain-table with zero motion and find unique wave-forms that way or you can go nuts on modulation those parameters and create endless modulating soundscape beasts.

If you want to get outside your comfort zone - get deep into the slice edit mode on a plucky synth sound REX loop in Dr. OctoREX.

[CharlyCharlzz]

Subtractor isn't too bad. Loads of wave-forms, FM and the phase shift options are rather great options not many *simple* VA/subtractive synths have.

I would recommend Malström mainly because you can do A LOT with tweaking and modulating shift, motion and index. You can *freeze* portions of the grain-table with zero motion and find unique wave-forms that way or you can go nuts on modulation those parameters and create endless modulating soundscape beasts.

If you want to get outside your comfort zone - get deep into the slice edit mode on a plucky synth sound REX loop in Dr. OctoREX.

great advise , I say this because I love malstrom and get lot's and great results with it and I also deep in dr rex editing for some months now

I just find weird to be able to make stuff in subtractor I cant in Minibrute , I got so much used to subtractor that I don't find my marks on other synth's .

[Heater]

I would give Thor another go.

It can be as simple as you want it to be.  A single VCO>VCF>VCA.  Or it can be a monster.  And Thor's filters are really good.  Well worth the effort.

[CharlyCharlzz]

I would give Thor another go.

It can be as simple as you want it to be.  A single VCO>VCF>VCA.  Or it can be a monster.  And Thor's filters are really good.  Well worth the effort.

maybe I should , I really dont like the programming part of it but I like combinators so maybe it's just a thing to catch and get used to .

@george , nice track budy

[esselfortium]

I love Subtractor. It was my go-to synth for years and years even after Thor was added, because its simplicity allowed me to work quickly to create complex sounds. I still would consider it an extremely capable synth, even though I don't use it as much nowadays since forcing myself to get more familiar with Thor's capabilities, in particular learning how to replicate my favorite Subtractor make-sound-gooder button with it (Ring Mod button = AM From Osc 2 slider).

Try playing with the phase options and Osc2 ring mod in Subtractor if you haven't already. They add some amazing new dimensions to it. Super underrated device.

[CharlyCharlzz]

I love Subtractor. It was my go-to synth for years and years even after Thor was added, because its simplicity allowed me to work quickly to create complex sounds. I still would consider it an extremely capable synth, even though I don't use it as much nowadays since forcing myself to get more familiar with Thor's capabilities, in particular learning how to replicate my favorite Subtractor make-sound-gooder button with it (Ring Mod button = AM From Osc 2 slider).

Try playing with the phase options and Osc2 ring mod in Subtractor if you haven't already. They add some amazing new dimensions to it. Super underrated device.

cool , I did not mess with this option much so fare .
thanks

[eXode]

Like already mentioned, start by trying to recreate your own Subtractor patches in Thor to get a better understanding of how things are put together.

Once you get comfortable enough, another tip is to download a free ReFill, like my own Massive Synthesis ReFill, and try to reverse engineer my Thor presets to learn what the different routings do and how they affect the sound, etc.

Good luck!

[EnochLight]

Like already mentioned, start by trying to recreate your own Subtractor patches in Thor to get a better understanding of how things are put together.

Once you get comfortable enough, another tip is to download a free ReFill, like my own Massive Synthesis ReFill, and try to reverse engineer my Thor presets to learn what the different routings do and how they affect the sound, etc.

Good luck!

Welcome to Reasontalk, eXode! Glad to see you here.

[Flandersh]

Because less is more....

The subtractor beats it all. Have yet to find a synth both inside Reason and in VST that is able to replace the subtractor.

[Gaja]

Also take a look at the manual. The section o Subtractor is also a tutorial on subtractive synthesis and offers in-depth knowledge about how the fm and ring modulation work.
Edit: nice track, george!

[EnochLight]

Since Khs One RE came out, I hardly ever use Subtractor anymore.

[Territan]

Charly, it sounds like you're already pretty advanced, so please don't take this as condescension: Here's the back half of Ryan's video introduction to Pulsar, where he sets the thing up as a synth with a little outside help.

EDIT: The video tag isn't honoring the time component of the YouTube URL. The relevant part begins at 3:49.

Yeah, I know, you're already great with Subtractor. But look between Subtractor and this Pulsar rig, and identify the individual parts. Then look at the controls of Thor or Malström and pick out the corresponding parts on each. Note what each does well (or at least differently), and experiment experiment experiment.

Heck, pick a synth RE from the Shop and Try it, just so you can download it, pick out the analogous controls, and play with something different for a while.

Because I think the next step would be "getting to know those devices you don't know by leveraging what you do know." And you know more than you think. (Yeah, that's a thing.)

[5mile]

Like already mentioned, start by trying to recreate your own Subtractor patches in Thor to get a better understanding of how things are put together.

Once you get comfortable enough, another tip is to download a free ReFill, like my own Massive Synthesis ReFill, and try to reverse engineer my Thor presets to learn what the different routings do and how they affect the sound, etc.

Good luck!

Yep this is how I learned!

[The Tone Ranger]

Subtractor is a very well designed bread and butter subtractive synth. 2 OSC, 2 Filters, 2 LFO, 3 ENV, FM, ringmod, polyphonic.... It has a feature set that's enough to make a lot of different sounds but also simple enough not to get confusing.

Minibrute is a budget analog. It has enough features to make a few different sounds but not enough to use as your only synth.

[Majestik Monkey]

I would give Thor another go.

It can be as simple as you want it to be.  A single VCO>VCF>VCA.  Or it can be a monster.  And Thor's filters are really good.  Well worth the effort.

I won't even resist & put it here, as it deserves an attention lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66cPKN_R4vA

Made with Thors only, except naturally drums!

Good solid D&B track George . . .  like it  :t2018: .....

[katerli1]

great topic… feel lost with synthesis often. it^s great too see that even charly gets lots!!!! honest stuff like this makes me carry on and encourages me for trying to synthesize more sounds myself. thnx fellas!!!!!!

[CharlyCharlzz]

Like already mentioned, start by trying to recreate your own Subtractor patches in Thor to get a better understanding of how things are put together.

Once you get comfortable enough, another tip is to download a free ReFill, like my own Massive Synthesis ReFill, and try to reverse engineer my Thor presets to learn what the different routings do and how they affect the sound, etc.

Good luck!

thanks , yep that is a great idear !

Since I started this thread I tryed out Thor More and  now I start to think it missing a few programing options !

.

Heck, pick a synth RE from the Shop and Try it, just so you can download it, pick out the analogous controls, and play with something different for a while.

Because I think the next step would be "getting to know those devices you don't know by leveraging what you do know." And you know more than you think. (Yeah, that's a thing.)

that sound like a good plan , I know combinators but the arrows and all in thor make me crazy .

[MirEko]

Hey charly,

Have you tried Polysix?

Limited parameters and some unique ones, it's kind of replaced subtracted for my go to bread and butter sounds.

Saying that my go to synths are:
Parsec
PX7
Polysix
Antidote

I very rarely use subtractor, Thor, or maelstrom anymore...