TEMPO MAPPING !!!

[mbfrancis]

None of these methods are optimal for building a tempo map for a song with tempo fluctuations.  It's pretty standard in other DAWs for >10 years that you can play in a MIDI click over the audio and then build the map from that, which is really the optimal solution, no?  Ryan's method works, but seems tedious.  

Rendering a time-corrected file is cool though, didn't know about that.

From what I understand the methods differ in the fact that with Reason you can decide whether or not you want to keep the tempo changes, even though it enables you to actually have a quantizable grid in time with the tempo changes. As opposed to a click with tempo changes that is quite as predictable as a song with tempo changes without a click.

I understand the value of this method.  However I am working on more organic recordings that don't need a clock.  My point is that it is tedious to create the map using Ryan's method vs. getting it from a click.  A lot of my songs have tempo changes, or are demos with no clock, and it would be great if in creating the map the DAW followed the actual rhythm vs. me manually tweaking the tempo every bar to match the rhythm. 

[Gaja]

I think I don't fully understand what you are trying to accomplish...
Is there a daw that takes my shitty drum playing and translates it to a click track? If the song doesn't need a click then why would you want one?
Or is it more like you play a click along to the song and then do someting to it that makes sense? Sorry I'm probably too tired to have my full cognitive capacity, but what follows after that? Why do you need a click in a recording without a click, and what would having a clicktrack help with? Does it do something with the grid? Like it somehow analyzes where your one is and then adjusts the grid to the click?
I'm sorry this sounds way too agressive, I don't mean to be rude at all, I'm just not fully caffeinated yet, which makes it difficult for me to communicate in a civilized manner. I'm just trying to understand

[selig]

I think I don't fully understand what you are trying to accomplish... Is there a daw that takes my shitty drum playing and translates it to a click track? If the song doesn't need a click then why would you want one? Or is it more like you play a click along to the song and then do someting to it that makes sense? Sorry I'm probably too tired to have my full cognitive capacity, but what follows after that? Why do you need a click in a recording without a click, and what would having a clicktrack help with? Does it do something with the grid? Like it somehow analyzes where your one is and then adjusts the grid to the click? I'm sorry this sounds way too agressive, I don't mean to be rude at all, I'm just not fully caffeinated yet, which makes it difficult for me to communicate in a civilized manner. I'm just trying to understand

There are DAWs, Pro Tools being one, that have for years allowed you to create your own click via an audio or MIDI track and the software will automatically assign the correct tempo changes so your click aligns with the bars/beats. Incredibly useful in those cases however rare they may be. In fact, I'd guess the more rare the more useful since you don't have to "learn" any specific technique to do so.

I have actually used this feature quiet a bit, either to create a tempo map from a "tempo free" performance so we can score live strings, or to be able to quantize such a performance to the grid (when taking a simple demo with no click and using it as a guide track to build a full production around).

[Gaja]

Ok thanks
So basically it does the same as Ryans method for tempo mapping, but automatically?
But you need the click track before recording no?
Sorry I'm really confused, I thought we were talking about something to be applied after a recording was done, so that's probably where my confusion comes from. Guess I didn't read with full attention. Sorry for the confusion...

[selig]

Ok thanks So basically it does the same as Ryans method for tempo mapping, but automatically? But you need the click track before recording no? Sorry I'm really confused, I thought we were talking about something to be applied after a recording was done, so that's probably where my confusion comes from. Guess I didn't read with full attention. Sorry for the confusion...

There are two different applications here, moving the audio so it matches the grid vs moving the grid so it matches the audio. In either case you HAVE to tell the software where the actual beats are supposed to be (using a click you create yourself). Some software will even let you define a MIDI note for down beats vs upbeats, allowing you to define the meter as well as the tempo!

[Gaja]

Ok. So after the song is done I'll have the ability to move the grid so it fits the audio. I understand this is a possibility and works similar to ryans method. But what is the real use for this? Because if the music is out of time then adjusting the grid won't help a lot (well visually it might)with he actual timing. So for me the question remains what this is really useful for, because the click will still be inconsistent and mostly unpredictable (this is all happening inside my head, so excuse my ignorance). In my imagination it might be quite cool for synced delays and LFOs, but for recording purposes I imagine it would be easier to play to a drummer who is untight, than play with a click tat is equally untight.
Dammit I have some kind of knot in my head, why am I refusing to understand what application I could have for this feature? Sorry...

[kloeckno]

Ok. So after the song is done I'll have the ability to move the grid so it fits the audio. I understand this is a possibility and works similar to ryans method. But what is the real use for this? Because if the music is out of time then adjusting the grid won't help a lot (well visually it might)with he actual timing. So for me the question remains what this is really useful for, because the click will still be inconsistent and mostly unpredictable (this is all happening inside my head, so excuse my ignorance). In my imagination it might be quite cool for synced delays and LFOs, but for recording purposes I imagine it would be easier to play to a drummer who is untight, than play with a click tat is equally untight. Dammit I have some kind of knot in my head, why am I refusing to understand what application I could have for this feature? Sorry...

Some drummers have great timing, but the tempo fluctuates. If you want to use a recording like that and still have a click track after the fact, you can either quantize it and make it a fixed tempo, or have the tempo adjust to the recording through manual automation and/or the tap tempo button.

Tempo-based effects will then work, and you can use the grid to edit and move parts.

[selig]

Ok. So after the song is done I'll have the ability to move the grid so it fits the audio. I understand this is a possibility and works similar to ryans method. But what is the real use for this? Because if the music is out of time then adjusting the grid won't help a lot (well visually it might)with he actual timing. So for me the question remains what this is really useful for, because the click will still be inconsistent and mostly unpredictable (this is all happening inside my head, so excuse my ignorance). In my imagination it might be quite cool for synced delays and LFOs, but for recording purposes I imagine it would be easier to play to a drummer who is untight, than play with a click tat is equally untight. Dammit I have some kind of knot in my head, why am I refusing to understand what application I could have for this feature? Sorry...

For me it comes up when needing to score MIDI parts that will eventually be printed as sheet music for live string players. You need the bar lines to line up with what is played, but you don't want to change what is played in any way. Hope that makes sense.

[Gaja]

Ok. So after the song is done I'll have the ability to move the grid so it fits the audio. I understand this is a possibility and works similar to ryans method. But what is the real use for this? Because if the music is out of time then adjusting the grid won't help a lot (well visually it might)with he actual timing. So for me the question remains what this is really useful for, because the click will still be inconsistent and mostly unpredictable (this is all happening inside my head, so excuse my ignorance). In my imagination it might be quite cool for synced delays and LFOs, but for recording purposes I imagine it would be easier to play to a drummer who is untight, than play with a click tat is equally untight. Dammit I have some kind of knot in my head, why am I refusing to understand what application I could have for this feature? Sorry...

For me it comes up when needing to score MIDI parts that will eventually be printed as sheet music for live string players. You need the bar lines to line up with what is played, but you don't want to change what is played in any way. Hope that makes sense.

That does make sense and is an application I can see thanks for hat

[Timusic57]

I made a video, showing how to easily record and tempo/conductor track in Reason 10.

On file, right click and select "Preview" to watch video . . .