2nd Prediction on Propellerhead Software

[raymondh]

I'm still struggling to understand why we are so feature driven. It's not like we use half of the features available in Reason. 

New features are part of the creative process. Every new version of Reason had features that inspired me to write something new, or change the way I work. The new featurea are a Catalyst. Same with new REs and Refills.

Is it really new features, or is it new ways to use old features? You can change the packaging, but the sound engineering undergirding the shiny new toy is not all that new. I think many people equate new sounds with new devices. Outside of Ableton Live's Session view, I have not encountered many "new" features that couldn't be duplicated in Reason. Refills exemplify what is possible in Reason. Rack Extensions are (for the most part) cost effective, virtual recreations of classic gear. There are other ways to jump start the creative process, without having to buy new gear.  

It's both - new and improved. Some examples:
- MIDI Out (new). So I can sequence my hardware synths from inside Reason rather than attempting to play them in real time (not a pretty sight).
- Spectrum EQ (improved way to use existing feature). Totally transformed the way I mix by providing a better UI over the existing controls.
- Korg Polysix (new). Yeah you'll get the debates like "you can make that sound in Thor", but the character of the sound of this synth inspired me a lot.
- Bitley Fairlight/Platinum/WBF. For me, Bitley's excellent refill gave Reason the warm vintage sound I always wanted.
- Audio recording (new). 
- The Combinator (a good example of something that we didn't need, but when it was available, opened many new doors for sound design)
- Reason 8 drag and drop (improvement). Yes the R8 browser has some stupid behaviours, but D&D makes the software so much more fun with big libraries of samples. 

None of these are about changing the underlying sound engine, that was never the question. But all of the above are improvements or new features or capabilities available for the Reason platform that I found inspired more creativity.   




 

[kitekrazy]

What kind of scares me is that at one time Tascam had a forum for Gigastudio, they ditched it and eventually Gigastudio was no more. 

 It appears that faithful Reason users are quite disappointed with the new release. I thought the developers were also in defense mode instead of respecting input of its user base. Lackluster upgrade while putting out costly rack extensions seem to be a mistake they need to fix.

 Then there was the rack extension giveaway that angered users.  I doubt most previous users were thrilled with getting amp simulators.  They could have given away something else.  (Parsec?) Cakewalk is really good at getting people to upgrade.  (AD2 Pro Bundle)

 If you are not a Reason diehard it hard to justify spending money on a lot of rack extensions.

 If they want more income and get more users they could port Thor and Malstrom to VSTs.  People who don't use Reason bought Thor for iPad.

 It could be that the unique proprietary DAW is on it's way out.  I hope not.

[Gaja]

What kind of scares me is that at one time Tascam had a forum for Gigastudio, they ditched it and eventually Gigastudio was no more. 

 It appears that faithful Reason users are quite disappointed with the new release. I thought the developers were also in defense mode instead of respecting input of its user base. Lackluster upgrade while putting out costly rack extensions seem to be a mistake they need to fix.

 Then there was the rack extension giveaway that angered users.  I doubt most previous users were thrilled with getting amp simulators.  They could have given away something else.  (Parsec?) Cakewalk is really good at getting people to upgrade.  (AD2 Pro Bundle)

 If you are not a Reason diehard it hard to justify spending money on a lot of rack extensions.

 If they want more income and get more users they could port Thor and Malstrom to VSTs.  People who don't use Reason bought Thor for iPad.

 It could be that the unique proprietary DAW is on it's way out.  I hope not.

Nah I think you're exaggerating.
Reason 8 migt have been lackluster for some, but some people were always dissappointed.
If one gets angry by promotional sales like "The Re giveaway" as you called it, they need some therapy. It's apromotional campaign. Everyone could have spend the 400 on reason, get 450 worth of REs then sell Reason for 200 and live happily ever after.
The amps were necessary, because without amp simulators Reason is not complete.
I use them a lot, for all kinds of stuff (e.g. parallel channel of a drum recording), and they sound great. So I guess props payed a nice sum to softube in order to give them away in every Reason version that's ever bought from now on. They could have given away something else, but they didn't. Also Volvo didn't give me a car for free. But I got a second set of car keys, so I got that going for me, which is nice, because I'll lose the other one in 2016.
Porting to VST would drive people away from reason and in the long run create less income. Also if they were to put a price tag on it, people would complain them to bits.
I don't think Reason is on it's way out. I just think that in the last years (namely after R6) so many new users have joined the forums (who were new to producing and decency) that the forum had become unmanagable. They'd need someone to read every single post and sort out the good stuff and reply and whatnot. I'd believe that to be a full time job (and a fucking boring one at that), and I fully understand that shelling out two grand for someone to do that shitty job every month would be a terrible business decision.

[Marco Raaphorst]

It's just code. And without a doubt the tablet market is a huge one. 

Rack Extensions will be ported to the tablet market as well, I am sure about it. I am sure the Props have thought about these things long before they introduced Rack Extensions. I am sure they can port their SDK to iOS. And probably to low latency Android devices as well. This will be a HUGE market.

[KEVMOVE02]

I'm still struggling to understand why we are so feature driven. It's not like we use half of the features available in Reason. 

New features are part of the creative process. Every new version of Reason had features that inspired me to write something new, or change the way I work. The new featurea are a Catalyst. Same with new REs and Refills.

Is it really new features, or is it new ways to use old features? You can change the packaging, but the sound engineering undergirding the shiny new toy is not all that new. I think many people equate new sounds with new devices. Outside of Ableton Live's Session view, I have not encountered many "new" features that couldn't be duplicated in Reason. Refills exemplify what is possible in Reason. Rack Extensions are (for the most part) cost effective, virtual recreations of classic gear. There are other ways to jump start the creative process, without having to buy new gear.  

It's both - new and improved. Some examples:
- MIDI Out (new). So I can sequence my hardware synths from inside Reason rather than attempting to play them in real time (not a pretty sight).
- Spectrum EQ (improved way to use existing feature). Totally transformed the way I mix by providing a better UI over the existing controls.
- Korg Polysix (new). Yeah you'll get the debates like "you can make that sound in Thor", but the character of the sound of this synth inspired me a lot.
- Bitley Fairlight/Platinum/WBF. For me, Bitley's excellent refill gave Reason the warm vintage sound I always wanted.
- Audio recording (new). 
- The Combinator (a good example of something that we didn't need, but when it was available, opened many new doors for sound design)
- Reason 8 drag and drop (improvement). Yes the R8 browser has some stupid behaviours, but D&D makes the software so much more fun with big libraries of samples. 

None of these are about changing the underlying sound engine, that was never the question. But all of the above are improvements or new features or capabilities available for the Reason platform that I found inspired more creativity.   

I'm not sure what your point is. I said that I don't understand the obsession with seeing lots of new features added with each version, or its not considered a "real upgrade". By listing features from previous versions (some as far back as R4), you have kind of made my point. Reason, as it stands today, has had it most important features for quite sometime. You don't new features to get inspired when learning how to use what we already have is inspiring enough. By your own admission, the only thing new in R8 that you highlighted is the drag and drop and a new browser. those are workflow improvements, not new instruments (for some reason, you didn't mention the Softube REs), which seem to be the crux of much complaining. How have you used the Spectrum Equalizer as an inspiration (did it make you a better musician)? You may be the exception, I'm not sure someone buys Reason in the hopes of becoming a better sound engineer.

[forensickbeats]

Nostradamus agrees. 

Common sense agrees.

If you are not a Reason diehard it hard to justify spending money on a lot of rack extensions.

Personally, I`m quite happy with R4. Lots of things came out ever since, but I don`t find them THAT useful when I measure costs and benefits, I`ve done most of the audio editing stuff with the help of other programs already.

And the cool thing before the rack extension era was that the user was motivated to squeeze the shit out of the devices already available and to learn to master them, rather then fixing his problems by browsing new plugins.

[Gaja]

Nostradamus agrees. 

Common sense agrees.

If you are not a Reason diehard it hard to justify spending money on a lot of rack extensions.

Personally, I`m quite happy with R4. Lots of things came out ever since, but I don`t find them THAT useful when I measure costs and benefits, I`ve done most of the audio editing stuff with the help of other programs already.

And the cool thing before the rack extension era was that the user was motivated to squeeze the shit out of the devices already available and to learn to master them, rather then fixing his problems by browsing new plugins.

And I think there would be less bickering if people learned how to utilize the REs they bought, before buying the next one. I too am guilty of this, I admit it.
Also I agree that Reason pre-RE was pretty kickass. Personally I wouldn't want to go back to versions earlier than 7.1, for all the awesome stuff it offers.
Still common sense is not very common, and lots of disagreement about what common sense actually means, and for my part equating the vision of props dying to common sense seems a bit far fetched. You have no actual numbers, so there is no possible way to make an adequate prediction of props financial situation. All you can do is interpret marketing, which is, imo, not very much to go by.
I don't think the end of Reason is near at all.

[KEVMOVE02]

Nostradamus agrees. 

Common sense agrees.

If you are not a Reason diehard it hard to justify spending money on a lot of rack extensions.

Personally, I`m quite happy with R4. Lots of things came out ever since, but I don`t find them THAT useful when I measure costs and benefits, I`ve done most of the audio editing stuff with the help of other programs already.

And the cool thing before the rack extension era was that the user was motivated to squeeze the shit out of the devices already available and to learn to master them, rather then fixing his problems by browsing new plugins.

Right!!!! it's like new devices have become the surrogate for experience and hard work! I sit in my makeshift studio, staring at a laptop on one side, and a couple of bass and electric guitars on the other. Since purchasing my last bass, I have upgraded Reason 4 times! Reason changed, but my bass didn't. Hmmm. Another thought: it seems to me that the more new devices they added to Reason, the more time I spent curating ReFills. reminds of the song "Looking For the Perfect Beat" by Africa Bambatta and the Soul Sonic Force (Beat This!).

[raymondh]

I'm still struggling to understand why we are so feature driven. It's not like we use half of the features available in Reason. 

New features are part of the creative process. Every new version of Reason had features that inspired me to write something new, or change the way I work. The new featurea are a Catalyst. Same with new REs and Refills.

Is it really new features, or is it new ways to use old features? You can change the packaging, but the sound engineering undergirding the shiny new toy is not all that new. I think many people equate new sounds with new devices. Outside of Ableton Live's Session view, I have not encountered many "new" features that couldn't be duplicated in Reason. Refills exemplify what is possible in Reason. Rack Extensions are (for the most part) cost effective, virtual recreations of classic gear. There are other ways to jump start the creative process, without having to buy new gear.  

It's both - new and improved. Some examples:
- MIDI Out (new). So I can sequence my hardware synths from inside Reason rather than attempting to play them in real time (not a pretty sight).
- Spectrum EQ (improved way to use existing feature). Totally transformed the way I mix by providing a better UI over the existing controls.
- Korg Polysix (new). Yeah you'll get the debates like "you can make that sound in Thor", but the character of the sound of this synth inspired me a lot.
- Bitley Fairlight/Platinum/WBF. For me, Bitley's excellent refill gave Reason the warm vintage sound I always wanted.
- Audio recording (new). 
- The Combinator (a good example of something that we didn't need, but when it was available, opened many new doors for sound design)
- Reason 8 drag and drop (improvement). Yes the R8 browser has some stupid behaviours, but D&D makes the software so much more fun with big libraries of samples. 

None of these are about changing the underlying sound engine, that was never the question. But all of the above are improvements or new features or capabilities available for the Reason platform that I found inspired more creativity.   

I'm not sure what your point is. I said that I don't understand the obsession with seeing lots of new features added with each version, or its not considered a "real upgrade". By listing features from previous versions (some as far back as R4), you have kind of made my point. Reason, as it stands today, has had it most important features for quite sometime. You don't new features to get inspired when learning how to use what we already have is inspiring enough. By your own admission, the only thing new in R8 that you highlighted is the drag and drop and a new browser. those are workflow improvements, not new instruments (for some reason, you didn't mention the Softube REs), which seem to be the crux of much complaining. How have you used the Spectrum Equalizer as an inspiration (did it make you a better musician)? You may be the exception, I'm not sure someone buys Reason in the hopes of becoming a better sound engineer.

I didn't know this thread was supposed to be about scoring points. If you're just wanting to argue, I'll leave you to it mate!

All I'm saying (to your question on why people are obsessed) is that I personally do value and get inspired by all the new features that come out, and I'm happy if that's not your experience.

[forensickbeats]

Common sense agrees.

Still common sense is not very common, and lots of disagreement about what common sense actually means, and for my part equating the vision of props dying to common sense seems a bit far fetched. You have no actual numbers, so there is no possible way to make an adequate prediction of props financial situation. All you can do is interpret marketing, which is, imo, not very much to go by. I don't think the end of Reason is near at all.

My point was that dissing your main customer base is not the way to prosper. I see many people freaking out because they are left with the impression that Propellerhead/s don`tGAF, and in the same time the company makes fake utopian ads, explaining to me how reality should work. Marketing is not a top down imposition of will upon the customers.

[EnochLight]

My point was that dissing your main customer base is not the way to prosper. I see many people freaking out because they are left with the impression that Propellerhead/s don`tGAF, and in the same time the company makes fake utopian ads, explaining to me how reality should work. Marketing is not a top down imposition of will upon the customers.

Is it common sense to assume that Propellerhead are dissing their main customer base just because they add a feature that not everyone would use?  It's not like they've shifted focus and are no longer going to develop Reason.  The only people who think Props don't GAF are people who are not buying the upgrades, were sore about the forums closing, or didn't find anything in the last upgrade valuable to them and somehow equate that to them being personally insulted.   :s0959:

I mean, I also realize you're still on Reason 4 so perhaps you're not even the primary customer base?  The features and additions that have appeared in Reason 5 weren't enough to warrant an upgrade for you (Kong and being able to sample is worth 5.0 alone, IMHO).  You clearly use another DAW along with it, so obviously 6.0 (which added audio recording) wasn't aimed at you.  It''s likely that nothing they will do in the future would pertain towards you as a customer.

And as far as the "fake utopian ads"... newsflash: all marketing and advertising works like this.  

[forensickbeats]

My point was that dissing your main customer base is not the way to prosper. I see many people freaking out because they are left with the impression that Propellerhead/s don`tGAF, and in the same time the company makes fake utopian ads, explaining to me how reality should work. Marketing is not a top down imposition of will upon the customers.

Is it common sense to assume that Propellerhead are dissing their main customer base just because they add a feature that not everyone would use?

No, they close the forum that many people do use and NEED to use and put a big DISCOVER thing on the main page.

It's not like they've shifted focus and are no longer going to develop Reason. 

Haven`t said such thing.

The only people who think Props don't GAF are people who are not buying the upgrades, were sore about the forums closing, or didn't find anything in the last upgrade valuable to them and somehow equate that to them being personally insulted. 

Isn`t that a legit thing to get pissed off about?

I mean, I also realize you're still on Reason 4 so perhaps you're not even the primary customer base?  The features and additions that have appeared in Reason 5 weren't enough to warrant an upgrade for you (Kong and being able to sample is worth 5.0 alone, IMHO). 
You clearly use another DAW along with it, so obviously 6.0 (which added audio recording) wasn't aimed at you.  It''s likely that nothing they will do in the future would pertain towards you as a customer.

You don't know me, man, enough psychoanalysis.

And as far as the "fake utopian ads"... newsflash: all marketing and advertising works like this.

Thanks for the information, today I`ve learned something new.

However, no company prospers by focusing mainly on the magic and not on the real cries of it`s customers.

[EnochLight]

No, they close the forum that many people do use and NEED to use and put a big DISCOVER thing on the main page. 

Sure, several hundred people use them.  Need them?  I suppose that's subjective.  There may be over 700 registered users here, but I'm not seeing 700 different posters participate actively.  

It's not like they've shifted focus and are no longer going to develop Reason. 

Haven`t said such thing.

Admittedly, that was more in alignment with the OP's take.  Your suggestion that now it's "Propellerhead dissing its users" just seemed to be in alignment, thus my statement.

The only people who think Props don't GAF are people who are not buying the upgrades, were sore about the forums closing, or didn't find anything in the last upgrade valuable to them and somehow equate that to them being personally insulted. 

Isn`t that a legit thing to get pissed off about?

I wasn't happy that the forums closed either - but my feelings were short lived.  Here we all are, discussing things as usual with a lot more newer participants at that - and it's moderated!  I'd say the forums closing, at the end of the day, was a good thing. YMMV...

I mean, I also realize you're still on Reason 4 so perhaps you're not even the primary customer base?  The features and additions that have appeared in Reason 5 weren't enough to warrant an upgrade for you (Kong and being able to sample is worth 5.0 alone, IMHO). 
You clearly use another DAW along with it, so obviously 6.0 (which added audio recording) wasn't aimed at you.  It''s likely that nothing they will do in the future would pertain towards you as a customer.

You don't know me, man, enough psychoanalysis. 

No one was psychoanalyzing you.  I was proposing an idea in the form of a question.  You don't agree with it, that's cool.  I was just trying to understand your angle more.

And as far as the "fake utopian ads"... newsflash: all marketing and advertising works like this.

Thanks for the information, today Ive learned something new.

Cool!

[forensickbeats]

Sure, several hundred people use them.  Need them?  I suppose that's subjective.  There may be over 700 registered users here, but I'm not seeing 700 different posters participate actively. 

YES IT IS subjective - I may subjectively decide to use FL or Live or Cubase instead, depending on many variables, one of which is the company`s behavior towards the userbase. Would discover be useful to more people then the forums were? I doubt that.

I wasn't happy that the forums closed either - but my feelings were short lived.  Here we all are, discussing things as usual with a lot more newer participants at that - and it's moderated!  I'd say the forums closing, at the end of the day, was a good thing. YMMV...

However, that should be, in my opinion, a responsibility of the company. That site must cover server costs and should be moderated. I`ve criticized the old forum being a close sect of registered users only, which is by now useless, since there is not even a forum anymore, but discover... yes, it is a closed community as well, so nothing new on that front.

[KEVMOVE02]

I'm still struggling to understand why we are so feature driven. It's not like we use half of the features available in Reason. 

New features are part of the creative process. Every new version of Reason had features that inspired me to write something new, or change the way I work. The new featurea are a Catalyst. Same with new REs and Refills.

Is it really new features, or is it new ways to use old features? You can change the packaging, but the sound engineering undergirding the shiny new toy is not all that new. I think many people equate new sounds with new devices. Outside of Ableton Live's Session view, I have not encountered many "new" features that couldn't be duplicated in Reason. Refills exemplify what is possible in Reason. Rack Extensions are (for the most part) cost effective, virtual recreations of classic gear. There are other ways to jump start the creative process, without having to buy new gear.  

It's both - new and improved. Some examples:
- MIDI Out (new). So I can sequence my hardware synths from inside Reason rather than attempting to play them in real time (not a pretty sight).
- Spectrum EQ (improved way to use existing feature). Totally transformed the way I mix by providing a better UI over the existing controls.
- Korg Polysix (new). Yeah you'll get the debates like "you can make that sound in Thor", but the character of the sound of this synth inspired me a lot.
- Bitley Fairlight/Platinum/WBF. For me, Bitley's excellent refill gave Reason the warm vintage sound I always wanted.
- Audio recording (new). 
- The Combinator (a good example of something that we didn't need, but when it was available, opened many new doors for sound design)
- Reason 8 drag and drop (improvement). Yes the R8 browser has some stupid behaviours, but D&D makes the software so much more fun with big libraries of samples. 

None of these are about changing the underlying sound engine, that was never the question. But all of the above are improvements or new features or capabilities available for the Reason platform that I found inspired more creativity.   

I'm not sure what your point is. I said that I don't understand the obsession with seeing lots of new features added with each version, or its not considered a "real upgrade". By listing features from previous versions (some as far back as R4), you have kind of made my point. Reason, as it stands today, has had it most important features for quite sometime. You don't new features to get inspired when learning how to use what we already have is inspiring enough. By your own admission, the only thing new in R8 that you highlighted is the drag and drop and a new browser. those are workflow improvements, not new instruments (for some reason, you didn't mention the Softube REs), which seem to be the crux of much complaining. How have you used the Spectrum Equalizer as an inspiration (did it make you a better musician)? You may be the exception, I'm not sure someone buys Reason in the hopes of becoming a better sound engineer.

I didn't know this thread was supposed to be about scoring points. If you're just wanting to argue, I'll leave you to it mate!

All I'm saying (to your question on why people are obsessed) is that I personally do value and get inspired by all the new features that come out, and I'm happy if that's not your experience. 

Woah, where is that coming from? I'm not trying to score points or argue with anyone. This forum is a dialogue; did you not expect a response to your comments? The topic of this thread is whether or not you think Propellerhead will be bought by a larger company, due to its focus on mobile app development and it's failure to develop tools required by professional recording studios. I appreciate that you like the new features; the OP thinks that Propellerhead is not adding enough new features to remain competitive. I thought you were participating in that conversation. My bad.

[kitekrazy]

I'm still struggling to understand why we are so feature driven. It's not like we use half of the features available in Reason. 

New features are part of the creative process. Every new version of Reason had features that inspired me to write something new, or change the way I work. The new featurea are a Catalyst. Same with new REs and Refills.

Is it really new features, or is it new ways to use old features? You can change the packaging, but the sound engineering undergirding the shiny new toy is not all that new. I think many people equate new sounds with new devices. Outside of Ableton Live's Session view, I have not encountered many "new" features that couldn't be duplicated in Reason. Refills exemplify what is possible in Reason. Rack Extensions are (for the most part) cost effective, virtual recreations of classic gear. There are other ways to jump start the creative process, without having to buy new gear.  

It's both - new and improved. Some examples:
- MIDI Out (new). So I can sequence my hardware synths from inside Reason rather than attempting to play them in real time (not a pretty sight).
- Spectrum EQ (improved way to use existing feature). Totally transformed the way I mix by providing a better UI over the existing controls.
- Korg Polysix (new). Yeah you'll get the debates like "you can make that sound in Thor", but the character of the sound of this synth inspired me a lot.
- Bitley Fairlight/Platinum/WBF. For me, Bitley's excellent refill gave Reason the warm vintage sound I always wanted.
- Audio recording (new). 
- The Combinator (a good example of something that we didn't need, but when it was available, opened many new doors for sound design)
- Reason 8 drag and drop (improvement). Yes the R8 browser has some stupid behaviours, but D&D makes the software so much more fun with big libraries of samples. 

None of these are about changing the underlying sound engine, that was never the question. But all of the above are improvements or new features or capabilities available for the Reason platform that I found inspired more creativity.   

I'm not sure what your point is. I said that I don't understand the obsession with seeing lots of new features added with each version, or its not considered a "real upgrade". By listing features from previous versions (some as far back as R4), you have kind of made my point. Reason, as it stands today, has had it most important features for quite sometime. You don't new features to get inspired when learning how to use what we already have is inspiring enough. By your own admission, the only thing new in R8 that you highlighted is the drag and drop and a new browser. those are workflow improvements, not new instruments (for some reason, you didn't mention the Softube REs), which seem to be the crux of much complaining. How have you used the Spectrum Equalizer as an inspiration (did it make you a better musician)? You may be the exception, I'm not sure someone buys Reason in the hopes of becoming a better sound engineer.

I didn't know this thread was supposed to be about scoring points. If you're just wanting to argue, I'll leave you to it mate!

All I'm saying (to your question on why people are obsessed) is that I personally do value and get inspired by all the new features that come out, and I'm happy if that's not your experience. 

Woah, where is that coming from? I'm not trying to score points or argue with anyone. This forum is a dialogue; did you not expect a response to your comments? The topic of this thread is whether or not you think Propellerhead will be bought by a larger company, due to its focus on mobile app development and it's failure to develop tools required by professional recording studios. I appreciate that you like the new features;

the OP thinks that Propellerhead is not adding enough new features to remain competitive.

I thought you were participating in that conversation. My bad.

That's it!  You get 10 points. I do like the browser but after a while it is kind of clumsy.  But there was also subtraction as far as auditioning patches.  I think if they took one of their RE's and turned it into an instrument some would be happy but then those who bought that RE would be upset.

[Gaja]

Common sense agrees.

Still common sense is not very common, and lots of disagreement about what common sense actually means, and for my part equating the vision of props dying to common sense seems a bit far fetched. You have no actual numbers, so there is no possible way to make an adequate prediction of props financial situation. All you can do is interpret marketing, which is, imo, not very much to go by. I don't think the end of Reason is near at all.

My point was that dissing your main customer base is not the way to prosper. I see many people freaking out because they are left with the impression that Propellerhead/s don`tGAF, and in the same time the company makes fake utopian ads, explaining to me how reality should work. Marketing is not a top down imposition of will upon the customers.

Yeah you know many people freak out about many things. The other day I withessed a fight about mac vs pc... No not a discussion, a fight, can you believe that? I for sure couldn't.
I've said before that the PUF was not the main customer base by a long shot. Only a couple of hundred people there, so maybe like a percent or two. Not even a relevant amount. Props have repeatedly said over the last few years, that most users preferred to stay out of the rage pit the forum had become and use facebook and twitter for communication instead. I've used the analogy of a red brick wall with one blue brick, that has now been painted red as well. So the main user base remains calm, making music with what they have. If they run into a problem, they shoot propellerheads a pm on facebook and get help directly. They don't have to wait until one of the props (Matias probably) happens to stumble about your request for help on page two of the forum, after an entire page of threads like "seriously fuck you" "I can't believe they haven't added VST support, even though I already asked twice!!!!!"
In order to get that place to be a workable solution for communication to props, they'd need people to constantly check the forums 24/7. and since everybody needs to sleep once in a while, so they need two people, and people have to have two days off a week, so they need three people. Three people who need to feed their families, but don't actively help the company, because they are paid to be looking after a tiny fraction of the users. It makes no sense at all.
I don't see a Reason to say they don't care, but many people get that impression, because they write support and say "you shitty count make my fucking shit work because I fucking paid for it lol!!!1!11 You make thhe shittiest shit now give me my money back or fix my shit!" Would you give a fuck if someone directed this incomprehensive blabber at you?

About signs for a buyout... I just bought a company and there were 0 signs for that. Nobody in the industry knew about it, not competitors and not customers. In some cases you may see signs, like oncoming insolvency, but that has not been the case (even though some were absolutely certain of it), because they'd have to report that afaik.

[zakalwe]

well, if they haven't gone in a 'direction' and they're doing the many things i have yet to be convinced, mainly because reason 8 was so bleh to me.

but i'm not someone who'd gone off their lithium and spent thousands on RE and in a convulsing rage about it.  i've spent a couple of hundred and now i'm thinking wait and see.  do i buy the next reason upgrade and the RE i've got my eye on?  or do i wait until NI give their software suite away again and just use the other DAW i have that already has all those features?

i'm pretty sure i'm going to do the former if reason 9 is a 'DAW' update with some progress on RE development and performance.  otherwise my reason install may become a curiosity to be rewired on occasion (antidote's techo stab patches <3 )

[Reason101]

I think a big part of the problem is that R8 was a really "nothing" release. Aside from the Browser (and even then, some people don't like it), what are we getting for our money?

Compare this upgrade to 4, 5, or even 6. Take a look at what you got with those. Then come back and let's talk. You cannot with a straight face tell me that R8 was a better or more innovative and inspiring upgrade than those others, can you? Thor? Kong? Sampling? Midi Out? Recording Audio? Pulveriser, Echo, & Alligator?

And it's not like things have to be HUGE for us to be satisfied with an upgrade. A lot of little things could be added and improved, especially in the sequencer. Does anyone remember Matt's "Death by a Thousand Cuts" post? Luckily I"ve preserved that on www.reason101.net. So have a look. If they had implemented 25-50 of the little things. Given us 2 new devices added to the "CORE" of Reason, and the updated Browser, well then, I think you would have had an upgrade.

The Props set themselves up for their upgrade paths back at the beginning, and now that they scale back what is provided with their upgrades, but asking the same price for it. Then they get slammed by their user base, and decide to shut down the forums (and silence some of those disgruntled voices -- not saying this is the reason they shut it down, just speaking to the fact that many discussions were deleted in the process). Many users are upset, but who's fault is that?

So the forums are closed and Discover is released. The user is "Dissed" and the Props take "cover". Seems about right.

[avasopht]

There are many ways of looking at things.

Creating a browser isn't just a matter of point and click for the developers, so although you might not appreciate the work these guys have been slaving 8-12 hours a day for, it was a job that just needed to be done.

The browser is much faster and makes it much easier to create drum patches. The browser could be even faster but it is faster than it was before. It sucks with NNXT though but that's the nature of this update, it's tough to get right and there are a lot of usability issues they need to figure out and figuring them out takes time because there are no obvious answers without creating several different solutions and seeing how they feel.

As well as the browser, PH are constantly working on the RE SDK. It's something YOU can't see immediately, but it's necessary work that will result in more things to see in the future.

Sometimes good work goes without merit and isn't appreciated until it's taken away.

[EnochLight]

I think a big part of the problem is that R8 was a really "nothing" release. Aside from the Browser (and even then, some people don't like it), what are we getting for our money?

Compare this upgrade to 4, 5, or even 6. Take a look at what you got with those. Then come back and let's talk.

Sure, let's talk:

• Reason 4: added 1 synth and an arp.  Yay.
• Reason 5: I'll give you that one - Kong, sampling, Dr. Octo replacing Dr. Rex; compatibility with Record (which in itself recreated Reason with audio-in as well as the new SSL-based mixer).  
• Reason 6: merged Record with Reason.  Yay.  As a Record owner, I got almost nothing.  Oh wait - there was Pulvi, Echo, and Alligator.  So 3 new effects.  Proto RE's not so ironically!
• Reason 6.5: added Rack Extensions.  new (optional) synth - Polar, and new (optional) piano module - (Radical), both of which increased the "free" cost by over $200 USD.  
• Reason 7/7.1: MIDI Output via the EMI, audio quantize, loop slicing with export to Dr. Octo REX, native mix bus routing, and a spectrum EQ.  A crapload of (optional) RE's by Propellerhead.  <= Admittedly, this is probably my favorite update in Reason's entire history.
• Reason 8/8.1: added drag and drop and a vastly faster browser.  MIDI/sequencer improvements.  Drop to Propellerhead integration.  2 new RE effects included.

I dunno.. from where I look at it, 8.1 wasn't earth shaking, sure - but it's not so out of alignment with some past releases.  I remember people being downright pissed off that 6.0 "just" merged Record.  LOL!  

[zakalwe]

i suspect their good work would have been much more appreciated had the fruits of it been released on a 2-3 year update cycle rather than the 1 and a bit one we now seem to be on.  now it's like every other update is worth buying.

i appreciate they've had a financial down year, a hardware product writeoff and a challenge in launching RE and integrating record but it would behoove them to get back on some meat and potatoes reason updates ASAP.

[Reason101]

There are many ways of looking at things.

Creating a browser isn't just a matter of point and click for the developers, so although you might not appreciate the work these guys have been slaving 8-12 hours a day for, it was a job that just needed to be done.

I've worked in software since 1999 (QA, Coding, Web, Tech Writing, etc.). So I know a bit about it. Admittedly I don't know the complexities and inner workings of Reason, but I can surmise the browser was a big undertaking. No argument there.

However, I can also surmise that fixing many small things in the sequencer would not be as huge an undertaking and could be done with relative ease. AND it would go a long way to creating some buzz and positive marketing too.

But all of this is neither here nor there. I'm sorry, but it makes zero difference how hard a task it is or how much work it took to come up with what you see in the R8 upgrade. What matters is what the User receives for their money (the value to the customer of the final product). For example, it could take me 10 years to create a song that is still shit and sells for zero dollars, but someone else can bang out a track in an hour and make millions from it. Quantity of time does not necessarily translate to Quality of the end deliverable. If that were the case, I'd be rich by now.

[Reason101]

i suspect their good work would have been much more appreciated had the fruits of it been released on a 2-3 year update cycle rather than the 1 and a bit one we now seem to be on.  now it's like every other update is worth buying.

i appreciate they've had a financial down year, a hardware product writeoff and a challenge in launching RE and integrating record but it would behoove them to get back on some meat and potatoes reason updates ASAP.

Indeed.

[Reason101]

I think a big part of the problem is that R8 was a really "nothing" release. Aside from the Browser (and even then, some people don't like it), what are we getting for our money?

Compare this upgrade to 4, 5, or even 6. Take a look at what you got with those. Then come back and let's talk.

Sure, let's talk:

• Reason 4: added 1 synth and an arp.  Yay.
• Reason 5: I'll give you that one - Kong, sampling, Dr. Octo replacing Dr. Rex; compatibility with Record (which in itself recreated Reason with audio-in as well as the new SSL-based mixer).  
• Reason 6: merged Record with Reason.  Yay.  As a Record owner, I got almost nothing.  Oh wait - there was Pulvi, Echo, and Alligator.  So 3 new effects.  Proto RE's not so ironically!
• Reason 6.5: added Rack Extensions.  new (optional) synth - Polar, and new (optional) piano module - (Radical), both of which increased the "free" cost by over $200 USD.  
• Reason 7/7.1: MIDI Output via the EMI, audio quantize, loop slicing with export to Dr. Octo REX, native mix bus routing, and a spectrum EQ.  A crapload of (optional) RE's by Propellerhead.  <= Admittedly, this is probably my favorite update in Reason's entire history.
• Reason 8/8.1: added drag and drop and a vastly faster browser.  MIDI/sequencer improvements.  Drop to Propellerhead integration.  2 new RE effects included.

I dunno.. from where I look at it, 8.1 wasn't earth shaking, sure - but it's not so out of alignment with some past releases.  I remember people being downright

pissed off

that 6.0 "just" merged Record.  LOL!  

That R4 synth was Thor, which provided a massive amount of possibilities, both audio and CV-wise. It was a major game changer, just as much as the Combinator was in 3.0. The point is just look at what the Props got us used to with their upgrades. at least a few new devices (even 7.0 gave us Synchronous), AND at lease one major improvement since 5.0. Yes, if you owned Record, you already had recording, but I forgive them this mistake. Record was a blunder. I'm not heartless. You're allowed a mistake now and then.
I also never brought up any point releases. I don't include 6.5. - aside from REs, I didn't think this was much of a release either. But 4, 5, and 6 were solid releases. Even 7 was pretty solid, with what you said above (MIDI Out), Audio slicing, mix bus routing, and Synchronous. Please don't tell me the Spectrum EQ was awesome. It's ok. But hardly a serious Spectrum Analyzer. Not by a long shot. And then 8? oy.