2nd Prediction on Propellerhead Software

[ambeant]

This should be a poll maybe, but who believes the second prediction(PH selling out to external powers/companies like Apple or some other "secret" consortium). The first prediction already appeared that PH is only focused on the current lucrative mobile toys fad and the trendy subcultures instead of also refining the tools for serious seasoned producers releasing professionally competitive releases.  The music industry can be saved with "out of the box" thinking. A new approach to sound but they must surrender they're old thinking. IMHO

Reason should be one the forefront of innovation and industry in it's sound along with it's "out of norm" rack" paradigm.

"I like Reason and see potential but the way the world works is illogical at times and is not the standard to follow".

[EnochLight]

The first prediction already appeared that PH is only focused on the current lucrative mobile toys fad and the trendy subcultures instead of also refining the tools for serious seasoned producers releasing professionally competitive releases. 

I predict that Props will continue to develop Reason just like they have: focus on core features and tandem RE SDK improvements, both of which are refining tools for serious seasoned producers.

Why people think that the addition of mobile app integration suddenly marks a shift in focus is beyond me.  I realize it's on their homepage, but really - it's an additional feature is all, which is completely free for the most part.  Free with Take; a buck for Figure.  

Relax, all will be fine.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE

[KEVMOVE02]

Could you be a bit more specific concerning the details of the predictions you refer to in this post? In response to the thought that Propellerhead is solely focused on mobile apps, I'm not sure that releasing 3 apps (then retiring one) is a clear indicator of a significant shift corporate focus from desktop to mobile solutions. What is clear is that Propellerhead is using gateway apps to reach out to a very large segment of population: small form factor mobile device users. They did not create this market strategy, they are following a path already hewn by companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and so on. Software companies that hope to remain relevant must adopt a multi-platform, common interface design  that offers a consistent experience to the end user. In Propellerhead's case, it appears that Discover acts a central hub for users to exchange ideas, regardless of the device they own. in theory, being able to collaborate without worrying about hardware or software compatibility would not only lead to greater interaction, but likely lead to a new musical discipline. Obviously, a LOT of work is needed to pull this off effectively, but we are just beginning. If we all give our time and talent to this effort, the bugs will get worked out and a workable, sustainable solution will manifest. I know some feel that discontinuing PUF was not in the best interest of Propellerhead and its user base, but you don't need a forum to invite people to beta test upcoming products. You don't need a forum to solicit input/feedback from your users. Most importantly, you don't need a forum to sell products. Besides, I think we will do fine filling the hole left by the closure of PUF. Reasontalk.com is doing a pretty good job of making that hole smaller everday.

[ambeant]

Could you be a bit more specific concerning the details of the predictions you refer to in this post? In response to the thought that Propellerhead is solely focused on mobile apps, I'm not sure that releasing 3 apps (then retiring one) is a clear indicator of a significant shift corporate focus from desktop to mobile solutions. What is clear is that Propellerhead is using gateway apps to reach out to a very large segment of population: small form factor mobile device users. They did not create this market strategy, they are following a path already hewn by companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and so on. Software companies that hope to remain relevant must adopt a multi-platform, common interface design  that offers a consistent experience to the end user. In Propellerhead's case, it appears that Discover acts a central hub for users to exchange ideas, regardless of the device they own. in theory, being able to collaborate without worrying about hardware or software compatibility would not only lead to greater interaction, but likely lead to a new musical discipline. Obviously, a LOT of work is needed to pull this off effectively, but we are just beginning. If we all give our time and talent to this effort, the bugs will get worked out and a workable, sustainable solution will manifest. I know some feel that discontinuing PUF was not in the best interest of Propellerhead and its user base, but you don't need a forum to invite people to beta test upcoming products. You don't need a forum to solicit input/feedback from your users. Most importantly, you don't need a forum to sell products. Besides, I think we will do fine filling the hole left by the closure of PUF. Reasontalk.com is doing a pretty good job of making that hole smaller everday.

I see it more as a change in marketing geared to what the current generation like or how they think, but I believe innovation does not need acceptance from mainstream culture if it is real. Innovations in music and technology should speak for itself and cause the mainstream to bend to it's will or set the standard. Changing the appearance doesnt matter if the internals are not new. I believe what most producers want is new and innovative sounds and methods not something repackaged and pass as new. The industry standard is based on which sounds more interesting then before. The iPhone concept is mainly for "looks", status and revenue but not the most technological.

PH should focus on competing sound wise with more innovative ways to get music on top of the industry.. then push this new campaign, and it will prosper on it's own.

The young generation do not know what is important but only what is advertised to them. good or bad.  

[KEVMOVE02]

Could you be a bit more specific concerning the details of the predictions you refer to in this post? In response to the thought that Propellerhead is solely focused on mobile apps, I'm not sure that releasing 3 apps (then retiring one) is a clear indicator of a significant shift corporate focus from desktop to mobile solutions. What is clear is that Propellerhead is using gateway apps to reach out to a very large segment of population: small form factor mobile device users. They did not create this market strategy, they are following a path already hewn by companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and so on. Software companies that hope to remain relevant must adopt a multi-platform, common interface design  that offers a consistent experience to the end user. In Propellerhead's case, it appears that Discover acts a central hub for users to exchange ideas, regardless of the device they own. in theory, being able to collaborate without worrying about hardware or software compatibility would not only lead to greater interaction, but likely lead to a new musical discipline. Obviously, a LOT of work is needed to pull this off effectively, but we are just beginning. If we all give our time and talent to this effort, the bugs will get worked out and a workable, sustainable solution will manifest. I know some feel that discontinuing PUF was not in the best interest of Propellerhead and its user base, but you don't need a forum to invite people to beta test upcoming products. You don't need a forum to solicit input/feedback from your users. Most importantly, you don't need a forum to sell products. Besides, I think we will do fine filling the hole left by the closure of PUF. Reasontalk.com is doing a pretty good job of making that hole smaller everday.

I see it more as a change in marketing geared to what the current generation like or how they think, but I believe innovation does not need acceptance from mainstream culture if it is real. Innovations in music and technology should speak for itself and cause the mainstream to bend to it's will or set the standard. Changing the appearance doesnt matter if the internals are not new. I believe what most producers want is new and innovative sounds and methods not something repackaged and pass as new. The industry standard is based on which sounds more interesting then before. The iPhone concept is mainly for "looks", status and revenue but not the most technological.

PH should focus on competing sound wise with more innovative ways to get music on top of the industry.. then push this new campaign, and it will prosper on it's own.

The young generation do not know what is important but only what is advertised to them. good or bad.  

You sorely underestimate young peoples engagement with the world . They are not lemmings following the person in front of them over a cliff. What some label as indifference is actually a response to the lack of engagement outside of tradition. Case in point: the old guard says Take and Figure are toys; the new innovators see both of those apps as organic processes that free their music and musical expressions to thrive and grow, free of walls or boundaries. The studio model continues to decline because the next gen have no need for it. They would much rather meet up at some random place, collaborate with a bunch of like minded people and create something they the release into the wild. Wow, that sounds an awful lot like Discover! As far as innovation, creation of or shifts in musical genre rarely come easy. Rock n Roll, American Jazz, Punk, etc all had to fight for their existence. The events that led to the creation of this very forum are the byproduct of a company deciding to disrupt the marketplace, break the shackles of tradition and place a very large bet on the future where music is created where ever you are, with whom ever you meet. For some, this will be the end of the line, and sadly miss the sea change. 

[raymondh]

In my opinion, the new website branding and the closure of the PUF are both substantial changes for Propellerhead, and it even makes me (a loyal user and fan of the company) really wonder what is going on.

It may well be nothing.
Or, it could be a marketing push aimed at expanding customer base for more money.
Or, it could be a push to expanding customer base to have revenue streams across multiple products (and de-risk the company from having all eggs in one basket)
Or, it could be dressing the company up for sale. (when companies sell, they create a data-room for disclosure of everything that prospective buyers get to interrogate and use for negotiation. If the PUF was past-tense, then it may not need to be published in the data-room and it becomes old laundry no longer relevant)

I think it's healthy that users here are speculating. What happens to/with Propellerhead has a big impact on us. I remember how much music I lost when Emagic sold Logic to Apple and discontinued the Windows PC version. I could export my projects to MIDI files, but lost a lot of work having to shift to a PC DAW. I also remember the frustration when Mackie bought Tracktion from Raw Materials Software, then discontinued it (luckily it's been brought back alive). 
Even if Propellerhead are simply creating new markets, we need reassurance - not that they will continue investing in Reason (of course they will) - but how much will they push Reason, will their development team now be 50% on Reason where before it was 80%? Will we see new innovations in Reason that historically Props needed as a one horse company but now they can focus their R&D team into different products? 

To balance things out - we need Propellerhead to be a successful company that grows and thrives. If they react to our bidding and are unsuccessful commercially because of that, then we won't get what we want either! And what we're seeing is their marketing machine, and marketing company strategy (I hope).

At this point in time, our cheese has definitely been moved, that much is true. But we don't know what that means in the long term. And so our speculation and close scrutiny over their moves over the coming weeks and months will all hold great interest!

Fingers crossed eh!!

[KEVMOVE02]

In my opinion, the new website branding and the closure of the PUF are both substantial changes for Propellerhead, and it even makes me (a loyal user and fan of the company) really wonder what is going on.

It may well be nothing.
Or, it could be a marketing push aimed at expanding customer base for more money.
Or, it could be a push to expanding customer base to have revenue streams across multiple products (and de-risk the company from having all eggs in one basket)
Or, it could be dressing the company up for sale. (when companies sell, they create a data-room for disclosure of everything that prospective buyers get to interrogate and use for negotiation. If the PUF was past-tense, then it may not need to be published in the data-room and it becomes old laundry no longer relevant)

I think it's healthy that users here are speculating. What happens to/with Propellerhead has a big impact on us. I remember how much music I lost when Emagic sold Logic to Apple and discontinued the Windows PC version. I could export my projects to MIDI files, but lost a lot of work having to shift to a PC DAW. I also remember the frustration when Mackie bought Tracktion from Raw Materials Software, then discontinued it (luckily it's been brought back alive). 
Even if Propellerhead are simply creating new markets, we need reassurance - not that they will continue investing in Reason (of course they will) - but how much will they push Reason, will their development team now be 50% on Reason where before it was 80%? Will we see new innovations in Reason that historically Props needed as a one horse company but now they can focus their R&D team into different products? 

To balance things out - we need Propellerhead to be a successful company that grows and thrives. If they react to our bidding and are unsuccessful commercially because of that, then we won't get what we want either! And what we're seeing is their marketing machine, and marketing company strategy (I hope).

At this point in time, our cheese has definitely been moved, that much is true. But we don't know what that means in the long term. And so our speculation and close scrutiny over their moves over the coming weeks and months will all hold great interest!

Fingers crossed eh!!

 
You say this like there are no other companies doing the exact same thing. Multichannel marketing and distribution are not new concepts. Making money is not an evil necessity and what more can they say to convince you the company is healthy? Do we realize that PUF was a very exclusive club that had a very expensive membership fee, so most of the music making world had no access to the collected knowledge found there. As painful as it was, Propellerhead had to burn down the house. I have trusted the decisions made by Propellerhead thus far and they have earn the right for me to see where they are leading us, with my full support. For those who disagree or have loss faith, you owe it to yourself to pursue the path that restores zen.

[ambeant]

Could you be a bit more specific concerning the details of the predictions you refer to in this post? In response to the thought that Propellerhead is solely focused on mobile apps, I'm not sure that releasing 3 apps (then retiring one) is a clear indicator of a significant shift corporate focus from desktop to mobile solutions. What is clear is that Propellerhead is using gateway apps to reach out to a very large segment of population: small form factor mobile device users. They did not create this market strategy, they are following a path already hewn by companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and so on. Software companies that hope to remain relevant must adopt a multi-platform, common interface design  that offers a consistent experience to the end user. In Propellerhead's case, it appears that Discover acts a central hub for users to exchange ideas, regardless of the device they own. in theory, being able to collaborate without worrying about hardware or software compatibility would not only lead to greater interaction, but likely lead to a new musical discipline. Obviously, a LOT of work is needed to pull this off effectively, but we are just beginning. If we all give our time and talent to this effort, the bugs will get worked out and a workable, sustainable solution will manifest. I know some feel that discontinuing PUF was not in the best interest of Propellerhead and its user base, but you don't need a forum to invite people to beta test upcoming products. You don't need a forum to solicit input/feedback from your users. Most importantly, you don't need a forum to sell products. Besides, I think we will do fine filling the hole left by the closure of PUF. Reasontalk.com is doing a pretty good job of making that hole smaller everday.

I see it more as a change in marketing geared to what the current generation like or how they think, but I believe innovation does not need acceptance from mainstream culture if it is real. Innovations in music and technology should speak for itself and cause the mainstream to bend to it's will or set the standard. Changing the appearance doesnt matter if the internals are not new. I believe what most producers want is new and innovative sounds and methods not something repackaged and pass as new. The industry standard is based on which sounds more interesting then before. The iPhone concept is mainly for "looks", status and revenue but not the most technological.

PH should focus on competing sound wise with more innovative ways to get music on top of the industry.. then push this new campaign, and it will prosper on it's own.

The young generation do not know what is important but only what is advertised to them. good or bad.  

You sorely underestimate young peoples engagement with the world . They are not lemmings following the person in front of them over a cliff. What some label as indifference is actually a response to the lack of engagement outside of tradition. Case in point: the old guard says Take and Figure are toys; the new innovators see both of those apps as organic processes that free their music and musical expressions to thrive and grow, free of walls or boundaries. The studio model continues to decline because the next gen have no need for it. They would much rather meet up at some random place, collaborate with a bunch of like minded people and create something they the release into the wild. Wow, that sounds an awful lot like Discover! As far as innovation, creation of or shifts in musical genre rarely come easy. Rock n Roll, American Jazz, Punk, etc all had to fight for their existence. The events that led to the creation of this very forum are the byproduct of a company deciding to disrupt the marketplace, break the shackles of tradition and place a very large bet on the future where music is created where ever you are, with whom ever you meet. For some, this will be the end of the line, and sadly miss the sea change. 

Alot of reason users feel a redirection of focus from PH which is aimed at a device with limited  resources, OS,and interface. Then they see marketing focus at a younger generation and they think, Wow.. why not continue to make Reason better, production wise and how would I monitor/change multiple tracks at the same time on a little touch screen. Then they equate this to catering to a less experienced market because Figure and Take might be easy to use but lacks the technical aspect and tools to produce a release. So it looks like they are starting over with the inexperienced which happens to be a younger crowd.  I think they should of used the iPad as a DSP host to free CPU usage in Reason via USB or as a fancy DJ controller like Tracktor to interface with Reason.

[raymondh]

 
You say this like there are no other companies doing the exact same thing. 

How so?

[KEVMOVE02]

 
You say this like there are no other companies doing the exact same thing. 

How so?

Take a look at what Steinberg has been up to: https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/mobile_apps.html

[KEVMOVE02]

Could you be a bit more specific concerning the details of the predictions you refer to in this post? In response to the thought that Propellerhead is solely focused on mobile apps, I'm not sure that releasing 3 apps (then retiring one) is a clear indicator of a significant shift corporate focus from desktop to mobile solutions. What is clear is that Propellerhead is using gateway apps to reach out to a very large segment of population: small form factor mobile device users. They did not create this market strategy, they are following a path already hewn by companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google and so on. Software companies that hope to remain relevant must adopt a multi-platform, common interface design  that offers a consistent experience to the end user. In Propellerhead's case, it appears that Discover acts a central hub for users to exchange ideas, regardless of the device they own. in theory, being able to collaborate without worrying about hardware or software compatibility would not only lead to greater interaction, but likely lead to a new musical discipline. Obviously, a LOT of work is needed to pull this off effectively, but we are just beginning. If we all give our time and talent to this effort, the bugs will get worked out and a workable, sustainable solution will manifest. I know some feel that discontinuing PUF was not in the best interest of Propellerhead and its user base, but you don't need a forum to invite people to beta test upcoming products. You don't need a forum to solicit input/feedback from your users. Most importantly, you don't need a forum to sell products. Besides, I think we will do fine filling the hole left by the closure of PUF. Reasontalk.com is doing a pretty good job of making that hole smaller everday.

I see it more as a change in marketing geared to what the current generation like or how they think, but I believe innovation does not need acceptance from mainstream culture if it is real. Innovations in music and technology should speak for itself and cause the mainstream to bend to it's will or set the standard. Changing the appearance doesnt matter if the internals are not new. I believe what most producers want is new and innovative sounds and methods not something repackaged and pass as new. The industry standard is based on which sounds more interesting then before. The iPhone concept is mainly for "looks", status and revenue but not the most technological.

PH should focus on competing sound wise with more innovative ways to get music on top of the industry.. then push this new campaign, and it will prosper on it's own.

The young generation do not know what is important but only what is advertised to them. good or bad.  

You sorely underestimate young peoples engagement with the world . They are not lemmings following the person in front of them over a cliff. What some label as indifference is actually a response to the lack of engagement outside of tradition. Case in point: the old guard says Take and Figure are toys; the new innovators see both of those apps as organic processes that free their music and musical expressions to thrive and grow, free of walls or boundaries. The studio model continues to decline because the next gen have no need for it. They would much rather meet up at some random place, collaborate with a bunch of like minded people and create something they the release into the wild. Wow, that sounds an awful lot like Discover! As far as innovation, creation of or shifts in musical genre rarely come easy. Rock n Roll, American Jazz, Punk, etc all had to fight for their existence. The events that led to the creation of this very forum are the byproduct of a company deciding to disrupt the marketplace, break the shackles of tradition and place a very large bet on the future where music is created where ever you are, with whom ever you meet. For some, this will be the end of the line, and sadly miss the sea change. 

Alot of reason users feel a redirection of focus from PH which is aimed at a device with limited  resources, OS,and interface. Then they see marketing focus at a younger generation and they think, Wow.. why not continue to make Reason better, production wise and how would I monitor/change multiple tracks at the same time on a little touch screen. Then they equate this to catering to a less experienced market because Figure and Take might be easy to use but lacks the technical aspect and tools to produce a release. So it looks like they are starting over with the inexperienced which happens to be a younger crowd.  I think they should of used the iPad as a DSP host to free CPU usage in Reason via USB or as a fancy DJ controller like Tracktor to interface with Reason.

I know a lot of people feel that Reason 8.1 and shutting down the forum was a disaster because it felt like you came home from a long day only to find your house has burned to the ground. You can't find a single memento to take with you. To add insult to injury, the insurance company tells you that some weird clause in your policy gives them the right to rebuild your house without your input or consent and expect you to like it. They tell you not to worry, because your house will be better and the new neighborhood will have many more people. Super Happy Fun Night! Your grief is real and you want someone from Propellerhead to acknowledge it. I know it looks like a bad breakup, but Propellerhead is not kicking us to the curb, and they haven't sold the company so they can go to fantasy camp. They want to make their products accessible to as many people as possible, which requires them to create a low cost entry point. Well a free app and a dollar store app seems to fit the bill. As far as their flagship product goes, I keep hearing the same complaints, from users and nonusers alike. I am certain that will never go away, so I just turn the volume down until everybody has their say and move on.

[kloeckno]

Why does everyone seem to think Propellerhead is getting bought out? They have been since the beginning a very independent company that does their own thing, no matter how many people ask them to follow trends. (VST is a great example) I don't see what makes one assume that they all of a sudden decided they want to sell themselves to a big corporation. They're a privately-owned company (not a corporation as many incorrectly call them), so it's not like some larger entity can make them sell out. Maybe if they got an offer they couldn't refuse... But it looks like to me that they're just doing some smart business moves to increase revenue through the lucrative App market, which is like the "gateway drug" to the hard stuff! Why do all this stuff, just to make your company appeal to a prospective buyer? That doesn't seem likely to me.

[Android.DK]

I predict that Propellerhead will be bought by Apple, and if you want to use Reason in the future you'll have to own a Mac to do so. 

[EnochLight]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... as a privately owned company in Sweden, if they decided to sell the entire company - wouldn't they get hit with an over 50% tax on the sale?  Swedish income tax is progressive and currently 31% + 25% for income above 615,700 kr ($88,180 USD and up).  I'm guessing the entire company would be valued far greater than that, though.
Would selling it be worth the loss?

Regardless, no one knows if they're planning to sell anytime soon or if ever.  No reason getting worried about it.

[KEVMOVE02]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... as a privately owned company in Sweden, if they decided to sell the entire company - wouldn't they get hit with an over 50% tax on the sale?  Swedish income tax is progressive and currently 31% + 25% for income above 615,700 kr ($88,180 USD and up).  I'm guessing the entire company would be valued far greater than that, though.
Would selling it be worth the loss?

Regardless, no one knows if they're planning to sell anytime soon or if ever.  No reason getting worried about it.

I love a challenge, but trying to figure out the tax laws that govern the ownership and sale of business entities (both swedish and non-swedish) doing business in Sweden is a bit more than I want to do at the moment. What is important is that I don't believe Propellerhead is dressing themselves up for a suitor, but are following Steinberg in creating a creative workspace that incorporate two previously disparate groups: mobile device users and laptop/desktop users. This is consistent with their vision statement:

We’re here to help turn people’s music making dreams into a reality.

[ambeant]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... as a privately owned company in Sweden, if they decided to sell the entire company - wouldn't they get hit with an over 50% tax on the sale?  Swedish income tax is progressive and currently 31% + 25% for income above 615,700 kr ($88,180 USD and up).  I'm guessing the entire company would be valued far greater than that, though.
Would selling it be worth the loss?

Regardless, no one knows if they're planning to sell anytime soon or if ever.  No reason getting worried about it.

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

[KEVMOVE02]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... as a privately owned company in Sweden, if they decided to sell the entire company - wouldn't they get hit with an over 50% tax on the sale?  Swedish income tax is progressive and currently 31% + 25% for income above 615,700 kr ($88,180 USD and up).  I'm guessing the entire company would be valued far greater than that, though.
Would selling it be worth the loss?

Regardless, no one knows if they're planning to sell anytime soon or if ever.  No reason getting worried about it.

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

After discontinuing Balance, why would they create another piece of hardware to do what many other audio interface companies have already done?

[EnochLight]

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

After discontinuing Balance, why would they create another piece of hardware to do what many other audio interface companies have already done?

I could be wrong, but I don't think ambeant is suggesting they go back into creating hardware, but utilizing existing hardware (an iPad) to offset processing or interface directly with Reason.

My thoughts are: sounds smashing, but I would just be happy if they continue to integrate their mobile apps like they're doing now but improve the features (like allowing stems to be dropped at one go instead of one stereo mix, allowing actual waves at 16 bit or 24 bit to be dropped, etc).  Or a "Reason Essentials" for iOS or something.

[KEVMOVE02]

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

After discontinuing Balance, why would they create another piece of hardware to do what many other audio interface companies have already done?

I could be wrong, but I don't think ambeant is suggesting they go back into creating hardware, but utilizing existing hardware (an iPad) to offset processing or interface directly with Reason.

My thoughts are: sounds smashing, but I would just be happy if they continue to integrate their mobile apps like they're doing now but improve the features (like allowing stems to be dropped at one go instead of one stereo mix, allowing actual waves at 16 bit or 24 bit to be dropped, etc).  Or a "Reason Essentials" for iOS or something.

How do you create a latency free pipeline between Reason and the iPad without an interface? bluetooth and wifi are not fast enough to receive, process and return data, so parallel processing would require a hardline. Maybe the lightning connector would suffice, but you still need an app that does the heavy lifting. So is it worth the time and effort to create something like this when were not even sure there would be enough demand to justify the R&D? A simpler solution would be to buy a better computer that can handle as many devices and tracks you need. 

[MDTerps2015]

I have been using Reason since 3 and now Im at 8. Im waiting for the next version of 9 before I jump ship. I just want to keep what i have in terms of RE's and im buying a few more before i call myself done unless something comes along really good. Im starting to worry myself but this mobile app thing doesnt seem like you could win a grammy using that or even get studio quality mixes. Im holding my breathe and waiting for 9 to see where it goes and if im not satisfied then i will move on and use rewire with another DAW. 

[ambeant]

QUOTE=KEVMOVE02]

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

After discontinuing Balance, why would they create another piece of hardware to do what many other audio interface companies have already done?

I could be wrong, but I don't think ambeant is suggesting they go back into creating hardware, but utilizing existing hardware (an iPad) to offset processing or interface directly with Reason.

My thoughts are: sounds smashing, but I would just be happy if they continue to integrate their mobile apps like they're doing now but improve the features (like allowing stems to be dropped at one go instead of one stereo mix, allowing actual waves at 16 bit or 24 bit to be dropped, etc).  Or a "Reason Essentials" for iOS or something.

How do you create a latency free pipeline between Reason and the iPad without an interface? bluetooth and wifi are not fast enough to receive, process and return data, so parallel processing would require a hardline. Maybe the lightning connector would suffice, but you still need an app that does the heavy lifting. So is it worth the time and effort to create something like this when were not even sure there would be enough demand to justify the R&D? A simpler solution would be to buy a better computer that can handle as many devices and tracks you need. 


USB 2.0/3.0 - 60MBps should be fast enough to send/receive audio chunks in milliseconds, MIDI and parameter changes, an occasional DSP block of code per device @ 192K. Running parallell along with the outboard PC code while organizing packet to send over USB in real-time along with clock or synchronization also in the packet. In theory it seems possible or a new fiber bus or network could be developed.

[KEVMOVE02]

QUOTE=KEVMOVE02]

I agree, but what do think of using mobile devices like iPad as parallel processing or cluster for Reason. not just Figure but a Reason app capable of interfacing with other Reason host.

After discontinuing Balance, why would they create another piece of hardware to do what many other audio interface companies have already done?

I could be wrong, but I don't think ambeant is suggesting they go back into creating hardware, but utilizing existing hardware (an iPad) to offset processing or interface directly with Reason.

My thoughts are: sounds smashing, but I would just be happy if they continue to integrate their mobile apps like they're doing now but improve the features (like allowing stems to be dropped at one go instead of one stereo mix, allowing actual waves at 16 bit or 24 bit to be dropped, etc).  Or a "Reason Essentials" for iOS or something.

How do you create a latency free pipeline between Reason and the iPad without an interface? bluetooth and wifi are not fast enough to receive, process and return data, so parallel processing would require a hardline. Maybe the lightning connector would suffice, but you still need an app that does the heavy lifting. So is it worth the time and effort to create something like this when were not even sure there would be enough demand to justify the R&D? A simpler solution would be to buy a better computer that can handle as many devices and tracks you need. 

USB 2.0/3.0 - 60MBps should be fast enough to send/receive audio chunks in milliseconds, MIDI and parameter changes, an occasional DSP block of code per device @ 192K. Running parallell along with the outboard PC code while organizing packet to send over USB in real-time along with clock or synchronization also in the packet. In theory it seems possible or a new fiber bus or network could be developed.

Nice concept, but is that really in Propellerhead's wheelhouse? There are few USB 3 audio interfaces these days. Wouldn't be simpler to treat the iPad as an external midi instrument? Midi data is less vulnerable to breaks in the data stream and the iPad is a very capable as a polyphonic synth, MPC, or effects processor. I think this is the path that Propellerhead is pursuing and I think it's the right one. Most of the criticisms seem to come from the way they handling of the transition to a new model than legitimate gripes about the platform (if you can still make music, your REs still work, and you don't experience system crashes, it's considered whining. Ask Ableton Live users about the transition from 7 - 8. That was an epic fail). I think your idea is sound and a third party should snap it up. 

[raymondh]

 
You say this like there are no other companies doing the exact same thing. 

How so?

Take a look at what Steinberg has been up to:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/mobile_apps.html

Sure.

What is different with Propellerhead though, is that it has a proprietary plug-in format (RE's). I love it and think it is superior to VSTs in many ways, but here's the rub:

If the Reason installed base does not grow, then the RE platform is commercially less attractive for RE developers. If Prop's attentions are on other products then if I was a RE developer, I'd be more cautious about investing time and money than if I felt Props were betting their business on Reason sales. For us customers, we might see less new RE products being available, and dwindling support on existing RE products. 

If I'm using Cubase and Steinberg are off pushing other products, not promoting Cubase, then while the DAW itself may not improve a lot more, it would have little or no impact on VST developers who can sell their products to users of many other DAWs. VST developers don't need to worry about the installed base of a single DAW. So even if Cubase was disccontinued - you would know there will be cool new VSTs, ongoing support for the top tier ones etc.

As our core OSX/Windows operating systems move forward and we need support and updates from our vendors to protect our investment, we want to be reassured they're sticking around. We want to know that in the game of leap frog, Reason and our Rack extensions will continue to be at the forefront of DAW technology.

I don't give a toss about Figure, Take or Discover. I think Reason is an awesome DAW and the rack extension synths and effects are also fantastic. There's some gaps across the board that need to be addressed, and all I want to see (and we will for sure in time) is that Props are as committed to the ongoing improvement of a professional DAW and driving to make it the industry standard, and not lose that focus.

[forensickbeats]

Keep on pissing the Re community off...




 
Q from the PH blog: "What you can see today is a glimpse of the future, an open internet music creation network letting anyone take part in music making, right as it happens. "

I didn`t believe that quote until I saw it myself. Are those guys at such odds with reality, are they really believing that, or do they think that the public is moronic... 

[KEVMOVE02]

 
You say this like there are no other companies doing the exact same thing. 

How so?

Take a look at what Steinberg has been up to:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/mobile_apps.html

Sure.

What is different with Propellerhead though, is that it has a proprietary plug-in format (RE's). I love it and think it is superior to VSTs in many ways, but here's the rub:

If the Reason installed base does not grow, then the RE platform is commercially less attractive for RE developers. If Prop's attentions are on other products then if I was a RE developer, I'd be more cautious about investing time and money than if I felt Props were betting their business on Reason sales. For us customers, we might see less new RE products being available, and dwindling support on existing RE products. 

If I'm using Cubase and Steinberg are off pushing other products, not promoting Cubase, then while the DAW itself may not improve a lot more, it would have little or no impact on VST developers who can sell their products to users of many other DAWs. VST developers don't need to worry about the installed base of a single DAW. So even if Cubase was disccontinued - you would know there will be cool new VSTs, ongoing support for the top tier ones etc.

As our core OSX/Windows operating systems move forward and we need support and updates from our vendors to protect our investment, we want to be reassured they're sticking around. We want to know that in the game of leap frog, Reason and our Rack extensions will continue to be at the forefront of DAW technology.

I don't give a toss about Figure, Take or Discover. I think Reason is an awesome DAW and the rack extension synths and effects are also fantastic. There's some gaps across the board that need to be addressed, and all I want to see (and we will for sure in time) is that Props are as committed to the ongoing improvement of a professional DAW and driving to make it the industry standard, and not lose that focus.

There lies the rub: you see the development of mobile apps as detrimental to the development of Reason. That is a stretch, considering Figure, Take and Thor are built from the Reason engine, adapted for a new chipset. Since Reason did not use VST technology in the past (or present), anyone who bought Reason with the expectation that VST integration would ever occur did so at their own risk. The development of REs, as part of a closed system is contingent on one thing only, that Propellerhead continues to develop and support REs. As long as they keep the format viable, they can always enter into partnerships with plugin developers for conversion of their products to the RE format.  As far as any gaps, I think we expect more of Reason than was promised. Propellerhead never expressed an intention to make a super DAW. Their ethos is to bring music making to as many people as possible. They are not looking to take share from other platforms, they want to reach those who have never made music on a computer or mobile device before. They want to bring these newbies into an online community where they can learn and grow with each other, judgement free. They knew that a lot of users would not like this new approach, but the payoff is worth the loss. We can go along if we want, but only if we embrace this new approach. What you see as loss of focus, I see as laser focus. If you truly want a "professional daw" you will have to look elsewhere, and there is nothing wrong with that.